Topic: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Yeah ... why?
Well some people complained about UDC ammo and explosion range - they asked for a change - not for a removal. Same goes for multispec for lazors.
Short range turrets with normal ammo had a bad range in most situations. Combined with high damage/close range ammo they had an even worse range but at least they were face melting. They had their role (ammo and turrets). The ammo is gone and short range turrets have lost much of their attraction.
R.I.P Shotgun Kain/Multi Artemis.

The game lost diversity - again.

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Robot explosions. You can't use short range high damage ammo before without being dead. They're just shifting short range up a little and will probably later increase fall off perhaps to make long range longer.

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Alexander wrote:

Robot explosions. You can't use short range high damage ammo before without being dead. They're just shifting short range up a little and will probably later increase fall off perhaps to make long range longer.

This kind of explanation isn't good enough for me. Before the patch i had the choice - now i don't.
And that's only for PvP ... no problems with explosions in PvE anyway.
Swinging the nerfbat now and balancing later?
That stinks.
Btw a high damage suicide bot was worth a consideration before the patch (using the explosion  damage to break enemy formation or dealing massive damage) ... still possible now but less effective.

4 (edited by Alexander 2011-08-27 12:40:05)

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Magnadart ammo still have a 20% range reduction and very high damage.
Though I do agree that there should be one ultra short but high damage ammo per faction. Depends what you consider short range. 100m is average explosion range. On a mech 150m is short range.

I fail to see what's wrong. You just want high damage ammo for PVE for easy mode. L2P.

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Huh now the insulting way of argumentation? No problem i'm able to do it too.
Corrected it for you:

Alexander wrote:

I fail to see what's wrong. You just want safe distant ammo to avoid explosion damage for PVP for easy mode. L2P.

6 (edited by Norrdec 2011-08-29 09:27:30)

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Error, there were more people not happy with the ultra short range ammo, than are with this new iteration of ammo.

/edit The new change made also possible to produce damage specific ammo. Before, only the sonic-only damage missiles were possible to be build. Now we have the kinetic and thermal variants available smile

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

also, for PvE: all other ammos aside chemoactive are more valid choices now, as they will deal more damage against NPCs if you choose the right one (eg. blue laser ammo against green bots)

before patch, there was just two choices - close range multidamage, or chemoactive.
now its 4 choices for PvE.

and IMHO short range Turrets gained attraction, as you can deal significant more damage with them then with longrange turrets.
Before that, you simply fitted Long range all the time, and if battle range changed, equipped short range ammo to deal almost same ammount of Damage as the short range turrets.
The difference between missiles and turrets now is back to its initial idea (missiles variable range/damage, turrets fixed range, but more DPS)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

The small magnedart slug could use dmg boost tho, 28 kin with -20% range versus the composite doing 26 kin and no range malus. Who wil use magnedart with such a minimal difference ?

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

I really sad that changes, I had chance in pvp with use that, and that was worth it, because lots of people couldnt change.
I agree with Error now less diversity. I posted that on Hungarian forum, and I didnt understand other players didnt miss these type of ammos.

Annihiliator: more choices but less damage for PVE farming, because most of time that ammo did a best damage.

Maybe we need short range can pe produced ammos, same damage than new ultimate pvp bullets or little bit less, and range penalty.

Only just magnedart had most of time unuseful, because short range guns 45 m and the fallofs less. I think could be a sollution, -75 % range +20 % fallof or any %, because icouldnt kill that guy from 100 m baceuse at 100 m magnedart didnt do real damage, when I used before magnedart at 100 m if I could was be fine.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

10 (edited by Annihilator 2011-08-29 17:45:39)

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

8% difference? indeed, looks a bit small.

perhaps those who want to get the last bit of extra damage out of their build?
whats that 8% in absolute damage on 5 weapons, with t4 light em guns, t4 tunings (with crit bonus!) and MK2 arbalest/yagel?

could it be enough to kill an oponent in one salvo instead of two?

@Inda: now you got an additional crit bonus on your tunings. your average DPS should be the same as before with short range ammo - IF you choose the right one. My seth is probably still able to kill 3rd star cremators in two salvos.

and if everything goes wrong: i can see the topics popping up how even-more-imba firearms are now with the Chemoactive bullets... There you still have your short range high-damage ammo, paired with the fastest shooting weapon ingame (cycle times lower then weapon animation length)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

In general the change was needed, the problem is now that magnedart is just a little too similar to the other ammos. -75% was too much with explosion dmg, but there must be a point between that and the current -20% which would allow there to still be a real close range, high dmg ammo.

12 (edited by Hunter 2011-08-30 02:26:07)

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

I don't see any problems here.
Melee ammo will be actual, if robots will blast not instantly (and/or with chance).
АОЕ - is important part of game, but it still need tuning.

Ammo change was quite adequate.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

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Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

When I started this game, kains were supposed to be short ranged dps.

Now they have same range as greens for the most part, explosion damage introduced (I understand why), and short ranged ammo removed.

Changes here are far too drastic here imo. You would think almost a year after launch and almost nothing changing as far as bot selection, they would at worst be making small adjustments and fine tuning stuff like this.

Even less motivation to spend EP which is quite possibly the funnest thing to do in perpetuum atm.

14 (edited by Norrdec 2011-08-30 09:21:49)

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

I think they should change the magnedarts to 50% range nerf with a bit less damage than it was before and make the composite with 20% (either change it back to multiple damage or make it kinetic only) with scaled damage. That way with magnedarts you are at either 100m with gauss or 200m with EM guns, still have better damage and a chance to mitigate most of the damage (if the explosion range is 120-140m as I have in my mind).

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Increase range of lasers and medium missiles.
Then later increase all speeds by 5%.

16 (edited by Sundial 2011-08-31 20:27:55)

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Alexander wrote:

Increase range of lasers and medium missiles.
Then later increase all speeds by 5%.

EDIT: agreed

Missles should be given a falloff that affects accuracy instead of damage. That way it stays ballanced at high end range fits, and does not completely suck otherwise like it does now.

That or make HeatIX only have a damage bonus and increase all missles range to current Heat-IX range.

Currently the Tyranos has terrible cost:effectiveness, as only high end fits are viable on it due to lackluster range + no falloff.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Alexander wrote:

Increase range of lasers and medium missiles.
Then later increase all speeds by 5%.

Alexandar is psychic.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

It was a joke... But.. Err. Now kains are short ranged again?... Yay?

D:

WAIT.. Does this mean we'll get a speed increase soon?

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

I think the mag nerf was a little too much. I'd rather see something in the region of 65 dmg, -40% range, or 65 dmg, -20% range, 2x AP consumption. That for medium ofc

Current dmg output with mag is just so .... meh

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Copine Callmeknau wrote:

I think the mag nerf was a little too much. I'd rather see something in the region of 65 dmg, -40% range, or 65 dmg, -20% range, 2x AP consumption. That for medium ofc

Current dmg output with mag is just so .... meh


Totally agree.

In a nutshell here's how the bonuses for Numquol combat mechs stack up:

1. Numquol damage output (5%/level) now ... meh
2. Numquol repping output (5%/level) now ... useless
3. Numquol falloff range (5%/level) always has been ... fail

Basically a waste to spend EP on robotics/advanced robotics as your gain is minimal.

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Even the Dev's cant answer the OP tongue

Just Sayin
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22 (edited by Alty McAlty 2011-09-03 20:51:37)

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Alexander wrote:

It was a joke... But.. Err. Now kains are short ranged again?... Yay?

D:

WAIT.. Does this mean we'll get a speed increase soon?


HUH? why? they can already run like Kenyan cheetahs on speed

Re: Why the removal of high damage/short range turret ammo?

Alty McAlty wrote:
Alexander wrote:

It was a joke... But.. Err. Now kains are short ranged again?... Yay?

D:

WAIT.. Does this mean we'll get a speed increase soon?


HUH? why? they can already run like Kenyan cheetahs on speed

w/ or w/o Drugs?

Just Sayin
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smileneutralsadbig_smileyikeswinkhmmtonguelolmadrollcoolyarr