26 Reply by Trayk (edited by Trayk 2011-09-08 15:03:56)

  • FOOM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

DEV Alf wrote:

It is aimed for low chance, but if it is really needed, we will increase the chance, also in every patch we will replace more and more old spawns to new random spawns (mission related npcs won't be changed )


How many more spawn changes can we expect? I am waiting until you guys are finished before I update the NPC maps on the wiki. I just don't want to waste time scanning mobs to have the work wasted.

BTW, the Elite mobs drop t4 on occasion big_smile

after the first patch they all dropped the highest tier kernals, but after the recent patch it seemed the Might Arbiter Tyrannos (forget the name) got nerfed and only drops Arbiter Mech kernals yet the assault version still drops the Overlord Assaults. Why did you guys do this?

  • TM-UAS
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Trayk wrote:
DEV Alf wrote:

It is aimed for low chance, but if it is really needed, we will increase the chance, also in every patch we will replace more and more old spawns to new random spawns (mission related npcs won't be changed )


How many more spawn changes can we expect? I am waiting until you guys are finished before I update the NPC maps on the wiki. I just don't want to waste time scanning mobs to have the work wasted.

BTW, the Elite mobs drop t4 on occasion big_smile

after the first patch they all dropped the highest tier kernals, but after the recent patch it seemed the Might Arbiter Tyrannos (forget the name) got nerfed and only drops Arbiter Mech kernals yet the assault version still drops the Overlord Assaults. Why did you guys do this?

I totally agree with you on that. This game of musical chairs they are playing with the spawns is getting old FAST. At this point, its a waste of time trying to keep a decent spawn map current.  Its making PVE farming more trouble than its worth. Which is NOT the direction they really should be taking, if they wish to retain players.

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.
  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Wraithbane wrote:
Trayk wrote:
DEV Alf wrote:

It is aimed for low chance, but if it is really needed, we will increase the chance, also in every patch we will replace more and more old spawns to new random spawns (mission related npcs won't be changed )


How many more spawn changes can we expect? I am waiting until you guys are finished before I update the NPC maps on the wiki. I just don't want to waste time scanning mobs to have the work wasted.

BTW, the Elite mobs drop t4 on occasion big_smile

after the first patch they all dropped the highest tier kernals, but after the recent patch it seemed the Might Arbiter Tyrannos (forget the name) got nerfed and only drops Arbiter Mech kernals yet the assault version still drops the Overlord Assaults. Why did you guys do this?

I totally agree with you on that. This game of musical chairs they are playing with the spawns is getting old FAST. At this point, its a waste of time trying to keep a decent spawn map current.  Its making PVE farming more trouble than its worth. Which is NOT the direction they really should be taking, if they wish to retain players.

OH ye magical one that automatically knows what is and what isn't keeping players, please teach me how to recognize what is and what isn't keeping players.

Because apparently nerfing something both adds and removes more people.

29 Reply by Wraithbane (edited by Wraithbane 2011-09-09 10:13:59)

  • TM-UAS
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Trap Card wrote:
Wraithbane wrote:
Trayk wrote:

How many more spawn changes can we expect? I am waiting until you guys are finished before I update the NPC maps on the wiki. I just don't want to waste time scanning mobs to have the work wasted.

BTW, the Elite mobs drop t4 on occasion big_smile

after the first patch they all dropped the highest tier kernals, but after the recent patch it seemed the Might Arbiter Tyrannos (forget the name) got nerfed and only drops Arbiter Mech kernals yet the assault version still drops the Overlord Assaults. Why did you guys do this?

I totally agree with you on that. This game of musical chairs they are playing with the spawns is getting old FAST. At this point, its a waste of time trying to keep a decent spawn map current.  Its making PVE farming more trouble than its worth. Which is NOT the direction they really should be taking, if they wish to retain players.

OH ye magical one that automatically knows what is and what isn't keeping players, please teach me how to recognize what is and what isn't keeping players.

Because apparently nerfing something both adds and removes more people.

Certainly... Gaze within the crystal vortex oh unworthy padiwan, and thou shall grasp how experience spread over years and many games affords one insights into the mystical retention sequence... ^^  Or in more modern terms, its not rocket science in terms of annoying players beyond a certain point... Some Dev's take absolute delight in that. But unless ones company name happens to be Blizzard, a more measured approach is usually called for. ^^

Even AAA class games have been having retention problems over the last few years. Look at Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, and Aion as just a few examples. Notice I didn't even mention the disaster that Final Fantasy 14 has turned out to be?

There is a fine line between challenging content, and fustration. Crossing the line acts like a DOT process. Eroding players enjoyment of the *service* one is providing, tends to be counter productive. Once in a while is natural of course. But if it becomes a general trend, even a monster like WoW starts to lose subscriptions. The difference being that WoW could lose a million players a year, and it would still be around in a decade. ^^  Perpetuum needs to be much more conservative of the players they do have, in order to insure they can continue into the future.

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.
  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

So what experience magically makes you able to judge better than anyone else?

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Wraithbane wrote:
Trayk wrote:
DEV Alf wrote:

It is aimed for low chance, but if it is really needed, we will increase the chance, also in every patch we will replace more and more old spawns to new random spawns (mission related npcs won't be changed )


How many more spawn changes can we expect? I am waiting until you guys are finished before I update the NPC maps on the wiki. I just don't want to waste time scanning mobs to have the work wasted.

BTW, the Elite mobs drop t4 on occasion big_smile

after the first patch they all dropped the highest tier kernals, but after the recent patch it seemed the Might Arbiter Tyrannos (forget the name) got nerfed and only drops Arbiter Mech kernals yet the assault version still drops the Overlord Assaults. Why did you guys do this?

I totally agree with you on that. This game of musical chairs they are playing with the spawns is getting old FAST. At this point, its a waste of time trying to keep a decent spawn map current.  Its making PVE farming more trouble than its worth. Which is NOT the direction they really should be taking, if they wish to retain players.

Oh it must be a real challenge to change 'T2A' to 'Random' in photoshop. I can see how it is driving away players and killing the game

/sarcasm

32 Reply by Grim Faust (edited by Grim Faust 2011-09-09 07:47:16)

  • FOOM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

The problem is running around to all the islands and keeping track of what's changed. But I guess you wouldn't know that if you're not the one spending time doing it. hmm

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run
  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

I like that things change in this game.
If this game didn't change I'd probably not be here.
If you want to maintain a complete spawn map then work together with a group. One person per island every patch day and you'll make them out in less than 2 hours..

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Grim Faust wrote:

The problem is running around to all the islands and keeping track of what's changed. But I guess you wouldn't know that if you're not the one spending time doing it. hmm

heh, but I am

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Grim Faust wrote:

The problem is running around to all the islands and keeping track of what's changed. But I guess you wouldn't know that if you're not the one spending time doing it. hmm

heh, but I am

And he's very good at it too. With every spawn (Probably including mission spawns) being migrated over to the new spawn system I think we need a new way to classify spawns.

First of all you have to work out how many "Slots" the spawn has. E.g. (Two Random slots)
Then you have to work out what can spawn in each of these slots. Is it the same for both slots?
Then you have yo somehow write down.
Rank / Robot Type / Classification / Quanitity
For each slot-group in the spawn.

It's going to be a nightmare.

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Alexander wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Grim Faust wrote:

The problem is running around to all the islands and keeping track of what's changed. But I guess you wouldn't know that if you're not the one spending time doing it. hmm

heh, but I am

And he's very good at it too. With every spawn (Probably including mission spawns) being migrated over to the new spawn system I think we need a new way to classify spawns.

First of all you have to work out how many "Slots" the spawn has. E.g. (Two Random slots)
Then you have to work out what can spawn in each of these slots. Is it the same for both slots?
Then you have yo somehow write down.
Rank / Robot Type / Classification / Quanitity
For each slot-group in the spawn.

It's going to be a nightmare.

haha, cheers big_smile

Well I've started to suss it out a bit, the 'slottage' (I refer to it as class, eg C1 = 1 slot, C2 = 2 slots etc etc) is easy to work out, you can figure that out just watching the spawn for a few minutes.
It's a bit more time consuming to kill the spawn and find out exactly what it can drop on you, but I've noticed a pattern start to emerge. Some random spawns spawn the exact same range as other spawns, so once I've figured out exactly what these are the maps should be a lot clearer. Rather than listing all the potential spawns I'll designate one set as type A, another as Type B and so on

So eventually the maps will just be marked, C2A, C3B, C1C, with a legend to explain what the different spawn types are.

  • TM-UAS
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Trap Card wrote:

So what experience magically makes you able to judge better than anyone else?

"Better"? Having never made such a claim, I feel no need to defend the position.  I make my decisions for me. You make them for you.  My remarks in this context are based upon my personal experience and are simply my personal *opinion*.

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.
  • TM-UAS
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Wraithbane wrote:
Trayk wrote:

How many more spawn changes can we expect? I am waiting until you guys are finished before I update the NPC maps on the wiki. I just don't want to waste time scanning mobs to have the work wasted.

BTW, the Elite mobs drop t4 on occasion big_smile

after the first patch they all dropped the highest tier kernals, but after the recent patch it seemed the Might Arbiter Tyrannos (forget the name) got nerfed and only drops Arbiter Mech kernals yet the assault version still drops the Overlord Assaults. Why did you guys do this?

I totally agree with you on that. This game of musical chairs they are playing with the spawns is getting old FAST. At this point, its a waste of time trying to keep a decent spawn map current.  Its making PVE farming more trouble than its worth. Which is NOT the direction they really should be taking, if they wish to retain players.

Oh it must be a real challenge to change 'T2A' to 'Random' in photoshop. I can see how it is driving away players and killing the game

/sarcasm

So, what use is a spawn map that simply lists "random"? Thats akin to the old maps along the edge of which stated "Here be monsters".  Though in this context, its more likely that "Here be Goonies" would apply...<grin>

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.
  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Wraithbane wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Wraithbane wrote:

I totally agree with you on that. This game of musical chairs they are playing with the spawns is getting old FAST. At this point, its a waste of time trying to keep a decent spawn map current.  Its making PVE farming more trouble than its worth. Which is NOT the direction they really should be taking, if they wish to retain players.

Oh it must be a real challenge to change 'T2A' to 'Random' in photoshop. I can see how it is driving away players and killing the game

/sarcasm

So, what use is a spawn map that simply lists "random"? Thats akin to the old maps along the edge of which stated "Here be monsters".  Though in this context, its more likely that "Here be Goonies" would apply...<grin>

gj on reading half the thread

  • TM-UAS
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Wraithbane wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:

Oh it must be a real challenge to change 'T2A' to 'Random' in photoshop. I can see how it is driving away players and killing the game

/sarcasm

So, what use is a spawn map that simply lists "random"? Thats akin to the old maps along the edge of which stated "Here be monsters".  Though in this context, its more likely that "Here be Goonies" would apply...<grin>

gj on reading half the thread

With misperception like that, you should run for public office.... ^^

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.
  • Bacon
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Wraithbane wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Wraithbane wrote:

So, what use is a spawn map that simply lists "random"? Thats akin to the old maps along the edge of which stated "Here be monsters".  Though in this context, its more likely that "Here be Goonies" would apply...<grin>

gj on reading half the thread

With misperception like that, you should run for public office.... ^^


He did and was elected to a super important office...so important...its important.

Just Sayin
01000110 01110010 01100101 01100101 01101100 01100001 01101110 01100011 01100101 01110010 01110011
smileneutralsadbig_smileyikeswinkhmmtonguelolmadrollcoolyarr
  • CAS
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Hmm what am I doing wrong?

I wander the map, try different spawns then I settle on one I like

Farm
Profit .....

And enjoy when some of the spawns change.
All without looking at a spawn map.

I can see how the spawns being changed makes it difficult to map as relates to FOOM's excellent guide, but not how it would drive a player away. Not really something to complain about. If your favorite spawn gets changed, there are plenty of other ones you can still farm within your capabilities, and may only take an hour of gametime to find. Not a big deal.

I'm glad the Devs are tweaking the game constantly, trying to improve it.

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

i'm not such a fan of the class changes in the spawn map (or at least the jump from tier 4 assaults and lights to tier two heavy mechs/mechs) i'd much prefer if the class was kept the same and the tier/type of bot was dynamic (eg:tank class to dps class for example). However, i'm not overly fussed about it to be honest.

  • ABT
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Alexander wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Grim Faust wrote:

The problem is running around to all the islands and keeping track of what's changed. But I guess you wouldn't know that if you're not the one spending time doing it. hmm

heh, but I am

And he's very good at it too. With every spawn (Probably including mission spawns) being migrated over to the new spawn system I think we need a new way to classify spawns.

First of all you have to work out how many "Slots" the spawn has. E.g. (Two Random slots)
Then you have to work out what can spawn in each of these slots. Is it the same for both slots?
Then you have yo somehow write down.
Rank / Robot Type / Classification / Quanitity
For each slot-group in the spawn.

It's going to be a nightmare.

At my private map I use this factors:
- number of groups ..... check out, how many different NPCs at a full spawn (2, 3, x)
- smallest (3* 1.Star Camelion f.e.) and highest spawn (3* 3.Star Kain)
- note the elite spawns (3.Star Assault, 3.Star Kain for example)
- note spezial spawns (3 Bronze Hauler, 2* 1.Star Messmer for example)
- spezial notes (mostly EW (Camelion, Vegabound) for example)

Yes, it take some time to gather this data. But hey, I farm them anyway yarr. So why not get the data while collecting the Kernals cool?

  • BKK
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

if everything goes right, "mission spawns" will vanish anyway.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Copine Callmeknau wrote:

Oh it must be a real challenge to change 'T2A' to 'Random' in photoshop. I can see how it is driving away players and killing the game

/sarcasm

Ignoring the sarcasm, but please if you make these new maps can you not just put 'random' or the map is going to get very useless very quickly. So far the random mobs have either 2 or 3 concurrent spawns and an upper limit on both size and class, so including this info would be great.

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Random NPC spawns

Lana Torrin wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:

Oh it must be a real challenge to change 'T2A' to 'Random' in photoshop. I can see how it is driving away players and killing the game

/sarcasm

Ignoring the sarcasm, but please if you make these new maps can you not just put 'random' or the map is going to get very useless very quickly. So far the random mobs have either 2 or 3 concurrent spawns and an upper limit on both size and class, so including this info would be great.

Yeh I know, and I am
I tag them temporarily as 'random' before I do a proper analysis of the spawn. Haven't made much progress over the last week or so though because of this weird disco problem.