Do you remember a game called Shadowbane?... Do you remember what happened to it? How about Darkfall (known to some as Darkfail). Or Mortal Online? All of these games BADLY niched themselves from the very start. Why? One of the major reasons was an almost obsessive focus on FFA PvP. There is a rather limited audience for that in the modern western markets.

The typical ganking and/or griefing that warms the hearts of the Goonies (and other such) is NOT tolerated very well at all in the vast majority of the modern western market. This has been demonstrated time after time, after time.

It was a factor in Aions (NCsoft) limited ability to retain players in the western markets. I liked the art style, but the lack of PvE servers kept me from playing it.  So even AAA titles from major companies like NCsoft are no exception.  FFA PvP (full loot or other wise) is simply a non starter in the modern western markets.  Especially if the Dev's (and their investors) want a good ROI.

That's what makes potential customers delete the game instead of subbing, that and losing their 2nd "reward robot" in an early level 0/1 (whatever it's called) mission that sends you to your death (yes, lol, a little QQ from me).

I think the mistake this game is making, as Darkfall did, is that hardcore PvP is a very niche market, yet game developers expect hundreds of thousands of subscribers (and they expect to keep them). They won't get it. CCP was lucky that they survived and thrived. Sometimes, a company gets lucky.

Things have changed since the UO/EQ (and the later, somewhat odd and bizarre EVE) grind mindset. I'm not going to never wear/equip my "rare" drops because I don't want to lose them if I die in PvP. What's the point of getting it to begin with if you can never wear/equip it? There are plenty of PvP games out there, MMOs, FPS and such, where if you die you don't lose your gear. And the PvP is just as competitive. (If I sound like I'm attacking you, I'm not--your post just made me "remember" past PvP/PvE experiences, so I guess you can charge me for therapy

And almost all players want that. A few don't. That's okay. They have their niche game which will probably close its doors soon, and I have endless, mindless, poorly crafted "MMORPGs", if you still want to call them that, which will close their doors in a few years instead of a few months (and which I quit in 2 months since there's no content after that).

You can't have player generated economy in a game where you don't lose your items when you die.

There is a fundamental divide in the way some games handle character development. Some games divide the combat and non-combat skill trees, while others merge them.

This creates a certain type of environment in the games. For games with the trees seperated, your not required to choose between advancing combat or non-combat, which means all characters are capable of combat even if they choose to only do non-combat roles. The world is balanced around it, so non-combat skills like gathering can require you to directly fight for resources because you have the full combat set available to you. This also means that 100% of the population can particpate in PVP or PVE if they choose to, with no penalty for also improving non-combat skills. Typically those types of game label non-combat as "secondary skills" or "professions", but really the main focus of the game is the combat (PVE and/or PVP).

The other type of game, which I think of as the definition of a sandbox, doesn't seperate skills or professions so an improvement in one area requires sacrifice in the other. And typically it will always be better to specialize in a specific role in this type of game until a certain level when you can branch out to another specialization.

Because of the fundamental difference in play, it makes no sense at all to try to compare the two generes or even the specific game mechanics, since the games must be balanced differently at all levels.

I couldn't get the same excitement in PvP or PvE if I didn't lose all my stuff when I died.

I remember playing Runescape in middle school back during the good old days of PKing in the wilderness, no game since then has really interested me due to not dropping all my stuff when I died (Ok, well I missed Darkfall and Mortal).

Also player driven economy would be fail without this.

DAoC was on the care bear end of PvP games, no offense. I would not play it for a real adrenaline rush like these type of games give me.

Also, what is not replaceable that you lose when you die? There are no legendary / relic type items in this game... its all made by players and sold on the open markets.

What may seem like alot of NIC to you now won't looking down the road a few months.

I think there is an old saying in EVE, just because you can pilot it does not mean you should. Don't take out what you can't afford to lose, plain and simple.