Topic: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

This is really starting to become a big issue now,  almost as big of a problem as the player cap / lag problems of late.

Every game crashes sometimes.. thats fine.   But when your on a roam and every single time a teleporter is used 30% of your team are reporting "crashed again" its getting a bit ridiculous.

Some people are crashing just sat idle in stations, sometimes its crashing on the move and sometimes a crash causes a player to be stuck logged in.

It wouldn't be so bad if the re-log was smooth but sometimes it stays stuck on log in for ages.

Everyone seems to have their own exotic cocktail of reasons and ways to reduce it or make it more stable, everything from drivers to browers types to the ISP they use, but there must be some underlying problem, there is no magic bullet.

I always send the crash report when its available and many other people do too, so here's hoping the problems get resolved with the same urgency as it starting to depress me more and more.

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

try to disable anti-aliasing

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Crashing and disconnecting is become far too frequent now.
Some of the fixes involve turning off shadows and turning down other graphical effects but this won't help with disconnects.

Having this combined with the fact that login hangs a lot not too is not good. The client simply doesn't like packet loss but seems to make no attempt to reform a connection. Sadface!

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

I´m running a win7 64bit with 8gb and never had a crash only some rare disconnects (like once in an evening) and mostly the moment I klick the leave station button. I also checked the RAm useage it´s around 45% so its 3,6 GB. I conclude that if I would run on a 32bit operating system to expect crashes due to the amount of addres ram. IMHO the ram usage is not optimized and It might be worthy to investigate. but this is pure speculation. as always if you have hardware above the minimum or optimum you will/might escape such issues.

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

as I said, there is no magic bullet.

What "helps" one doesn't help another... and even then, it only "helps" it doesn't resolve.  crashing when leaving a station is just as common as crashing when teleporting and crashing when just idle.

My suspicion is down to the way it writes cache because in the very rare case where someone gets an actual error message it goes on about failing to write to disk.

Anyway.  Its not a technical issue isolated to just me, its everyone.

If you are blessed to not have the problem, great.  but my concern (and so should yours be) is for the majority of people who's enjoyment of PO are sinking lower and lower as they resign themselves to not playing due to these persistent and annoying crashes.

Devs show they can resolve a problem when its a clear and present, but this issue will slowly grate away even the most positive and enthusiastic players.

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

I have 2 accounts, both characters do everything together. One account regularly crashes, the other never does.
The one that crashes uses the market a lot and has lots of stuff in hangers, my guess is that crashes are related to accessing the database, and has nothing to do with settings or hardware.

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Most of the crashes are due to the client running out of memory (the amount of memory in your system doesn't actually matter, a 32 bit executable can only utilize 2 gbytes of it) - We're working on the issue and my top priority at the moment is to find ways to counteract the problem.

8 (edited by Norrdec 2011-07-05 14:03:21)

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

What eats the memory? I've never seen either of my clients to run above 1,2gb of memory (even with different graphic setting they used about the same). Running W7 64bit w/ 8gb of ram.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Norrdec that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out smile

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Do you have a in-client tracker connected with memory use?

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

I think it is pretty obvious whats "eating" the memory. Jumping through teleport & crashing = obviously the next island landmass is being loaded up and overloading memory. Undocking = again island landmass is being loaded up and overloading memory.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

DEV BoyC wrote:

Most of the crashes are due to the client running out of memory (the amount of memory in your system doesn't actually matter, a 32 bit executable can only utilize 2 gbytes of it) - We're working on the issue and my top priority at the moment is to find ways to counteract the problem.

See, this is what concerns me.

you say its memory running out, but people have 8 gigs +, I have 16 gigs on my home PC and there is no signs of memory running out at all.

My machine at work has 2gig, runs photoshop, outlook, office all manner of software which use lots of memory and I also have 3 printers printing large image files... and it never crashes!

so I call bullshit on the memory running out.

Im going to drive a readyboost drive and disabling the page file on my machine at home, but really, ive send enough dmp file reports now that dev's should have a better idea.

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

DEV BoyC wrote:

Most of the crashes are due to the client running out of memory (the amount of memory in your system doesn't actually matter, a 32 bit executable can only utilize 2 gbytes of it) - We're working on the issue and my top priority at the moment is to find ways to counteract the problem.

well I think that is what I meant, nice to see it confirmed and looked into

14 (edited by GLiMPSE 2011-07-05 14:48:10)

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Snowman wrote:
DEV BoyC wrote:

Most of the crashes are due to the client running out of memory (the amount of memory in your system doesn't actually matter, a 32 bit executable can only utilize 2 gbytes of it) - We're working on the issue and my top priority at the moment is to find ways to counteract the problem.

See, this is what concerns me.

you say its memory running out, but people have 8 gigs +, I have 16 gigs on my home PC and there is no signs of memory running out at all.

My machine at work has 2gig, runs photoshop, outlook, office all manner of software which use lots of memory and I also have 3 printers printing large image files... and it never crashes!

so I call bullshit on the memory running out.

Im going to drive a readyboost drive and disabling the page file on my machine at home, but really, ive send enough dmp file reports now that dev's should have a better idea.

What he's saying is that the process... perpetuum.exe can't use more then 2 gb's of memory... this holds true with every 32-bit application.

from what it sounds like, they are working on trying to figure a way to reduce the 'bloat' in memory which will make these errors less common.

so it doesn't matter if you have 128gb of memory... the limit is the 32 bit architecture of the application.

So I call your bullshit and raise you a failure to comprehend.

15 (edited by Norrdec 2011-07-05 14:59:02)

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

I fail to see why is it so different for everyone. If it's the landmasses between teleports, then why if we all go on a roam there are some people that crash and some that don't? We travel the same distance, the amount of time spend in the game could be different. Could this be more related with not the memory used, but how it is used? The client could try to replace some information in the memory, before he can do it(information still being used on the "old" teleport location) the client tries to insert "new" teleport location, there is no error catch and the client crashes.

All this is guessing... but tossing ideas around can help.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Norrdec I'm actually working on such an in-client tracker as we speak, the problem is that it reduces the performance to a level where I'm happy if it gets to the terrain in 20 minutes and reaches 2 seconds per frame speeds.

Yes, the 32 bit architecture of the client is what's causing the issue - a single 32 bit process on any windows system can't use more than 2 gigabytes of memory as it simply runs out of address space (this is because 32 bit applications use 32 bits to point to a memory block, which equals to 4 gigabytes, but half of that is reserved by the system to manage the process). Running multiple 32 bit applications on the same system means that each will be able to use 2 gigabytes, so photoshop and your browser can work side by side without issues. (And if your physical memory would run out the page file comes into play yes)

As for the landmass being the problem that's just not true as we unload the previous map before loading the new one, so it just simply replaces it, and they are of equal size.

The issue is being looked into in depth, don't worry we know what we're doing smile

17 (edited by Norrdec 2011-07-05 15:06:22)

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

We trust you guys, we only want to help you so we can have more uninterrupted fun big_smile

/edit is the memory tracker running out of memory...? tongue

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Yeah, one of the issues was that the memory tracker was running out of memory smile Now I'm dumping the data to the hdd to analyze later - says a lot that the first dump was 35 gbytes by the time I got to the login screen.

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Sometimes when I teleport I see the the inside of a terminal part way through, the background is black.

I'm also sometimes getting "not responding" when teleporting but it then recovers.

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

GLiMPSE wrote:

What he's saying is that the process... perpetuum.exe can't use more then 2 gb's of memory... this holds true with every 32-bit application.

from what it sounds like, they are working on trying to figure a way to reduce the 'bloat' in memory which will make these errors less common.

so it doesn't matter if you have 128gb of memory... the limit is the 32 bit architecture of the application.

So I call your bullshit and raise you a failure to comprehend.

Yes but its not going to use 2gig's in 30 seconds flat while docked at an outpost doing nothing!

So I call your failure to comprehend and raise you evidence to the contrary wink

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Ironically, I mostly crash when I have two clients open, and it is usually the client I have alt-tabbed out of that is the one that crashes.

After that crashes seem to happen most often for me exiting the Terminal and loading environment.

22 (edited by Alexander 2011-07-05 16:52:11)

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Snowman wrote:
DEV BoyC wrote:

Most of the crashes are due to the client running out of memory (the amount of memory in your system doesn't actually matter, a 32 bit executable can only utilize 2 gbytes of it) - We're working on the issue and my top priority at the moment is to find ways to counteract the problem.

See, this is what concerns me.

you say its memory running out, but people have 8 gigs +, I have 16 gigs on my home PC and there is no signs of memory running out at all.

My machine at work has 2gig, runs photoshop, outlook, office all manner of software which use lots of memory and I also have 3 printers printing large image files... and it never crashes!

so I call bullshit on the memory running out.

Im going to drive a readyboost drive and disabling the page file on my machine at home, but really, ive send enough dmp file reports now that dev's should have a better idea.

What you're missing is "(the amount of memory in your system doesn't actually matter, a 32 bit executable can only utilize 2 gbytes of it)"

16 Gb of ram, 100 Gb of ram. Ram isn't the issue it's the handling of the allocated memory to the process.

And I believe Syndic to be right. You can open up the cache of the game at any time and check it while you deploy The graph goes crazy. Looks like terrain, texture and models being loaded into memory cause an error/crash. This is why teleporters will usually cause problems. Loading old terrain crossed with new terrain data is conflicting. D:

I'd happily have a 5 second longer deploy time if memory was scrubbed correctly. Then work on lowering the deploy timer! big_smile

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

all i know is that i suffer one crash on every roundtrip of the inner alpha islands on the transportation cirquit.

this comes to one CTD every 10 minutes- exactly. It never fails.
six CTD to every hour during a grind session.

24 (edited by Loquitious 2011-07-05 18:47:01)

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

Whoops see below

Re: The amounts of crashes are getting silly now :(

No offence but this looks like a severe memory leak to me, it only happens after half a dozen zones for me which suggest it keeps something in memory after each zone and that stacks up to too much after a while.