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Perpetuum Forums → Feature discussion and requests → deployable container (can) lifetime is too short
15 minutes seems excessively short.
I have to have an alt sitting at a can while my other chr does the hauling.
If this is intentional to try and encourage teamwork then I think we should think of some better incentives because, as it stands, its just a pain in the *** if you don't have someone to haul for you.
Working as intended. 
Seriously though, 15 mins is a long time for a container to sit around. Sequar with T4 LWF and Nav 10 moves at 80 Kph, which can easily make a round trip out to 4,000 m in 15 mins.
And yes, having an alt sit on the can is the approved method. Or you can create a second characer and put EP into Industrial robot 4 and log them off next to the can.
If you can't afford, or your EP isn't high enough yet for sequars, then it's just a being new thing and you'll get past it shortly.
You can use one more tecnic for that, if you can use light ew, you just run in to terminal and pick up light ew and go to container, if that reached go back and bring hauler 
You will able to do little bit farther. Be carefully thats NOT EVVECTIVE i just use what i have near 80 E in container. I used it.
I thought this was a rather large issue when I was new as well. Once you figure the game out you can find just about anything you need within 3-4km of a terminal, so its really not a problem.
im out on the field, with a full field can:
corpchat: need hauler
corpchatanswer: ok
and a corpmate undocks and gets my loot back (note: my corp consists of 4 player, the topic starters corp has WAY more)
You should have been here when you had to stay within 30M from can to use it! Now we have 100M and it is sweet.
As others said, you will find out that it is no problem really.. your corp will help haul for you if you do the mining. If not, holler to me and I'll help 
those 30m where rlly anoying;
Increasing time a bit wouldnt be much issue either.
Im not saying its un-usable.
I just saying its unnecessarily inconvenient.
I think it's necessarily inconvenient -- as a viable strategy for roaming is to stumble upon an op, run off the inhabitants and keep an eye on the can for any force that may be trying to rescue the contents. If you up this to 30 minutes... it's just that much longer someone is forced to 'camp' your container... which is unnecessarily inconvenient
Not to mention that you could then use cans as decoy's to pull said pirates away for long periods of time.
Working as intended.
Seriously though, 15 mins is a long time for a container to sit around. Sequar with T4 LWF and Nav 10 moves at 80 Kph, which can easily make a round trip out to 4,000 m in 15 mins.
And yes, having an alt sit on the can is the approved method. Or you can create a second characer and put EP into Industrial robot 4 and log them off next to the can.
If you can't afford, or your EP isn't high enough yet for sequars, then it's just a being new thing and you'll get past it shortly.
Ok, so you say 15 minutes is TONS of time... let's investigate that from a noobs perspective.
One of the guys in my corp found what he called Mt. Liquizit. So I go to investigated it in a Castle. Takes me 7 minutes to get to the location even in a light bot so I have to tell the guy, thanks for the intel but it's useless to me.
Reason being, I'm a noob. My miner barely runs 50km/s. If I run out there, drop a can and start mining, I have 7 minutes to get back to the terminal and then 7 minutes to get back to my can. Assuming ZERO errors, ZERO crashes to desktop and ZERO mobs trying to intercept me, I MIGHT make that round trip. If I don't, I lose everything I mined. Not worth the risk.
I understand this game is set up to FORCE socialization. However, not everyone wants to sit around bored staring at a can watching a miner and not everyone will willing haul for a miner.
Second of all, I don't have the EP to share with another alt on my account and even if I did what you guys suggest, logging an alt in and out of where the can is, is an unnecessary pain in the ***.
Allow me to elaborate...
Log my main in, drive to the mining site, log out.
Lot my alt in, drive to the mining site, log out
Log my main in, drop can, begin mining.
Drive my main back to the terminal when done mining.
Log my alt in to refresh the can.
Log my alt out.
Log my main in and get in the Sequer, drive to the mining site and collect 1 batch of ore.
Drive the Sequer back to the terminal.
Unload Sequer, log the main out.
Log my alt in to refresh the can.
Log my alt out.
Log my main in and get in the Sequer, drive to the mining site and collect 1 batch of ore.
Drive the Sequer back to the terminal.
Unload Sequer, log the main out.
Log my alt in to refresh the can.
Log my alt out.
Log my main in and get in the Sequer, drive to the mining site and collect 1 batch of ore.
Drive the Sequer back to the terminal.
Unload Sequer, log the main out.
Etc until the can is empty.
Inconvenient doesn't even begin to describe this sequence of events. Damned stupid is closer to reality.
Thirdly, I shouldn't be FORCED to get a second account just to be able to solo mine
effectively. Eventually I may. I shouldn't HAVE to.
Finally, being a NOOB shouldn't be a reason to sequester me to within 2000m of a terminal or teleport just to be able to mine.
30 minutes of can time would solve that alt/refresh problem, allow miners to put a LOT more ore/commodities on the market and not cause you pirates THAT much of a pain in the arse.
Allow me to elaborate...
Log my main in, drive to the mining site, log out.
Lot my alt in, drive to the mining site, log out
Log my main in, drop can, begin mining.
Drive my main back to the terminal when done mining.
Log my alt in to refresh the can.
Log my alt out.
Log my main in and get in the Sequer, drive to the mining site and collect 1 batch of ore.
Drive the Sequer back to the terminal.
Unload Sequer, log the main out.
Log my alt in to refresh the can.
Log my alt out.
Log my main in and get in the Sequer, drive to the mining site and collect 1 batch of ore.
Drive the Sequer back to the terminal.
Unload Sequer, log the main out.
Log my alt in to refresh the can.
Log my alt out.
Log my main in and get in the Sequer, drive to the mining site and collect 1 batch of ore.
Drive the Sequer back to the terminal.
Unload Sequer, log the main out.
Etc until the can is empty.
My GF just pointed out it took me 7 minutes to describe one of these cycles, nevermind trying to actually do it.
Yes, you did a good job of describing how difficult it would be to mine that as a new player, but you know if you were a combat player, you also couldn't expect to beat a 4 Star NPC.
So, not every mineral location is suitable for new players to mine solo.
Just because you want to do something in the game, doesn't mean you can.
Now, if there was absolutely nothing for you to mine within 5 minutes drive of an outpost, then I would support this.
Also, you don't always have to bring you load back to the main outposts, there are 3 remote outposts on each of the alpha-1 Islands. And I know for a fact that on Attalica just outside of the Galoley Station, there is every ore (other then of course Epitron) in quantity within 3000 meters. And 2 very large titan fields just down the hill that you can mine all day (watch for roaming bots) and have no trouble at all making round trips to the can in 15 min.
tl;dr It's a sandbox game, but that doesn't mean the tools should be changed to allow anyone to do anything at anytime.
Yes, you did a good job of describing how difficult it would be to mine that as a new player, but you know if you were a combat player, you also couldn't expect to beat a 4 Star NPC.
So, not every mineral location is suitable for new players to mine solo.
Just because you want to do something in the game, doesn't mean you can.
Now, if there was absolutely nothing for you to mine within 5 minutes drive of an outpost, then I would support this.
Also, you don't always have to bring you load back to the main outposts, there are 3 remote outposts on each of the alpha-1 Islands. And I know for a fact that on Attalica just outside of the Galoley Station, there is every ore (other then of course Epitron) in quantity within 3000 meters. And 2 very large titan fields just down the hill that you can mine all day (watch for roaming bots) and have no trouble at all making round trips to the can in 15 min.
tl;dr It's a sandbox game, but that doesn't mean the tools should be changed to allow anyone to do anything at anytime.
I'm not asking to mine epi. I'm on an alpha 2 that's mostly concrete around the ONE terminal. I was given waypoints by the corp. Within that 3000m circle there are 3 titan fields, 1 stermontit field that's been mined dry in the past 2 days and one HDT field. Anything beyond those and I risk not being able to get my can.
And as for what I can and can't do, it's not like I'm asking to kill an overseer with a Castle. I'm asking to be able to find ores in range to mine and not have to freak out about my can disappearing. And it's not like I'll make more NIC mining further out. On the contrary, I'll make less due to longer travel times. The way you're overreacting you seem to think having longer can times is somehow going to make my noob mining overpowered or that I'm asking to pwn that overseer. Hardly.
Your reading too much "manic" into my responses, you presented a feature discussion and I explained why additional time was not needed to fix an issue with solo mining for new players. You responded that the new miner experience was broken because of it, so I clarifed again that there are plenty of solo mining opportunities without needing additional time.
It's not an issue of simply adding more time, of course that's possible, anything can be changed. However it's just not a needed change, as the issue your experiencing isn't game breaking nor is it just there to be 'inconvient'. The timer serves a specific purpose which is to limit the range at which solo players can container mine, as well as keeping the terrain clear of unused cans.
Your arguement gives no reason, other than your corp is assigning you to mine in an area that you shouldn't be solo mining in anyway.
Oh, got it. Because I'm a noob, I should NOT be on an alpha 2 and should be sequestered to the alpha 1's until I'm of sufficient NON-noobishness to live on an alpha 2.
Elitism on Perpetuum... undertsood.
You're claiming that noobs SHOULD be limited in the range they can mine for no good reason other than they're noobs and they don't NEED to live anywhere other than an alpha 1 and you're claiming that a 30 minute timer would turn the islands into some can trash heap.
Then explain to me why I see Rivelers having to hug terminals to mine. Why I don't see miners on the remote sections of the island even though there's gobs of good mins there. This isn't a noob breaking issue, it's a solo mining breaking issue. Noob or otherwise.
You combat types are free to go anywhere on the island and not worry about how far out you are. I, however am forced into a restricted area simply because I choose to solo mine and there's a restrictive time limit on cans.
Explain to me what game/experience-enhancing concept you're envisioning when miners (noob or ancient) are forced to hug terminals, outposts and teleporters or wait until they can find someone to join them but combat types aren't restricted.
I do believe that if they do decide to extend the can timer for those "much farther fields" that they should then make a hacking divise that will allow your can to be hacked after a set amount of time. Say if it is extended to 30 min a countdown of 15 in then it can be hacked. but thats just my two cents.
P.S. if you cant get your corp to come out and haul in a can for you it might be time to find a new one.
Just because I disagree with your feature request, and presented counter arguements, doesn't make it Elitism.
Your premise that 15 min can life prevents all solo players from being miners is false.
I'm not a combat type, I'm a Riveler MK II miner type with lots of Perpetuum experience. We mine close to the outpost because the volume of ore produced requires many trips, and we don't like hauling long distances if we don't have to. But even if I was a combat type, they also consitently use containers for farming NPC's, and are under the same limitations as miners.
The only reason to extend the timer is to allow cans to be used further from outposts for solo players; a small but not insignificant portion of the player base. And of those solo players, your specifically talking about players that do not have Nav 10 and T4 LWF on sequars that can do 80 kph, which is generally new players.
My counter is that the lack of EP and the proper equipment is something that corrects itself with time, and until then, there are many area's which can be mined without advanced equipment.
You are looking at your specific needs, wanting to Mine a specific Island, and a specific ore, in a specific way and making a request that effects the whole mechanic of mining.
Your justification is going to need to be more than just countering my posts with sarcastic forum memes.
Is it a pain in the butt, sure...However I have only lost a can once, that was because my GF was arguing with me and My second and third accounts logged out while I was trying to get back to station.
I mine a little further out becuase I like to mine alone, I get possesive of "My" fields of ore. But I will tell you how much of a PIA it is to mine that far out and hault it back. I have to plan my mining around my bed time. For instance, If I have to haul 1000units of ore, then I have to typically start hauling around an hour before I am getting off to allow for 5 lithus trips. You probably have a sequer so imagine 15 trips, at some point it gets counter productive when you are solo mining and you are best to stick closer to the stations. The 15 minute can actually helps encourage this.
after all, for a noob that wants to make money from mining, its probably much better to do a mining mission which asks you to get back to the terminal/outpost after 1 argano full with ore anyway.
if your really mining far out, alone, its probably worth to bring a mobile teleporter...
I lost again few ressources cuz of downtime... There have to be another option to handle this except this 15min can..
I have to agree with Evangel. 15 mins is too short and I don't see any reason why it couldn't be increased to 20 or 30. It sounds great to have 2 or 3 acounts, to have corp mates that can give you a hand, but that's not the point. You shouldn't need to get a second account if you decide to mine at a time when your corp mates, no matter how helpful they are, can't give you a hand at that specific time.
For a game that describes itself as a sandbox, this feature imposes a limitation that in my opinion is unnecessary and freedom-breaking.
One more point. From what I've been hearing and reading, the markets are one of the weakest links in perpetuum's economy right now. This could be a step towards improving them in the sense that it would allow for more minerals to come in the economy.
This is a MMORPG corporation based game. Doing stuff solo is hard. Everything working as intended.
We had enough resources to sell, but no one was making mods for anyone(Corps did that for themselves). That's why the market was dead.
This is a MMORPG corporation based game. Doing stuff solo is hard. Everything working as intended.
We had enough resources to sell, but no one was making mods for anyone(Corps did that for themselves). That's why the market was dead.
Not sure things are working as intended, maybe we can have a dev shedding some light on that subject. For sure the market is not working as intended and this could help.
As for Perpetuum being a corporation based game, it means nothing, corporation 'based' is not corporation 'only', so you should cater for everything a player might want to do in a sandbox.
It's very interesting what you say though. According to you, no corporation can start from scratch, they can only offshoot from existing corporations, because the current market doesn't support newcomers.
Is that also working as intended?
This is a MMORPG corporation based game. Doing stuff solo is hard. Everything working as intended.
We had enough resources to sell, but no one was making mods for anyone(Corps did that for themselves). That's why the market was dead.
Wait, you call a fractured economy where only elitists sell to noobs to be working as intended? No wonder the server pop looked more like a MUD than an MMO before the EVE expats arrived.
Sounds to me like you guys did an excellent job of keeping this your own private little party, excluding anyone who wouldn't socialize with you by not selling them so much as a piece of ammo.
Working as intended I assume.
I wonder if the DEV's consider their last quarter profits to be 'working as intended' with you guys chasing off any new player who wouldn't participate in your communistic societies.
Open the markets, open the can timers and watch what happens. More minerals, more modules, more players who CAN solo, more people to shoot, more fun, and more profit for the DEVs. How can all this be a bad thing?
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