Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

DEV Zoom wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

I'd rather you guys just limited it to 1 (or 2, just a max) tutorial mission per account.  Not sure how easy that would be for you to do, tracking missions across multiple characters on an account, but it would prevent the tutorial spam which I'm assuming this is supposed to fix.


EDIT: OP updated.

That idea came up, but it's difficult to implement and is also penalizing honest players who just want a nice start for their 3 characters.

Also your OP update is a bit misleading, since the 24-hour character deletion timer is still in place. So if you create a character within 24 hours of the next patch, you will only be able to delete that when the EP cost is already in place.

Who says I cant be misleading?

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

27 (edited by Alexander 2010-11-25 18:02:08)

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

It seems easy enough to change. 1 tutorial assignment per account. If you're running multiple main characters off one account it has benefits and consequences.

3 days = 72 hours. Create a character now and you still have time to delete it. Plus if you're fast and could probably do it twice. that's 4 times per account that has a main on it and 6 times per account that has no characters on it. There time for at least 1 more.

You're 2 minutes late. I remand reimbursement!

The Game

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

1. Will there be a fat warning when deleting a character?

2. What happens to all the new players starting up. There are those that don't use their EP because they are not sure which faction or startup cprps to choose. So they do some training assigments while learning more about the game before they decide to remake their character

Personally I always end up deleting the first 2-3 characters I make. This proposed change screams of bad quality. I'd probably end up ragequitting if it happened to me.

29 (edited by Osuna 2010-11-25 19:34:14)

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Perhaps another option, depending on which would be easier in the coding, might be to make the tutorial bots not tradeable between accounts? 

In all honesty, if you are a *** like me, and try to squeeze that last mission before the servers go down and get yourself blown up, I think it is a fair punishment for stupidity to be able to grind out a new one. yarr  Especially this early in the game.  If I had to grind out 400K with the noob bot just to get back to where I was and I'm still figuring out the game I'd probably just throw up my hands and say 'nice game' and call it good and go back to LOTR.

There has to be a way to teach players like me a lesson without making it such a *** that a person would just pack it in.  This early in the game people just aren't that committed to the game yet.  Later, when I loose my mega-bot (I know it will happen), I think I will be 'into' the game enough to do the work to get it back.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Charging EP to delete a worthless fluff character...... this is pure genius. I do believe this is will solve some of the issue with spy's. Honestly i don't see any reason to run more than one character per account anyway. I don't see this as a bad plan.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

CenDre wrote:

Charging EP to delete a worthless fluff character...... this is pure genius. I do believe this is will solve some of the issue with spy's. Honestly i don't see any reason to run more than one character per account anyway. I don't see this as a bad plan.

Once again, spys are very worth while, so they will not be deleted.

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Ok so if I delete my character today I don't lose ep for doing it right?

Also if you delete a character can you re-use its name?

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Vexrak wrote:

Ok so if I delete my character today I don't lose ep for doing it right?

Also if you delete a character can you re-use its name?

yes and yes
though the EP spent on that agent are already gone.

Forum Rule #5
Pyramid quoting, quoting excessive amounts of text or quoting without any senseful reply is forbidden. Only quote that is necessary to show what your reply refers to.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Hello, sorry for my english if i make mistakes.

I dont think the EP cost is a good idea. It will cancel my exploration of spécializations and weapons.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

When is the last day of free character deletion?

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Kaito Kurusaki wrote:

Personally I always end up deleting the first 2-3 characters I make. This proposed change screams of bad quality. I'd probably end up ragequitting if it happened to me.

So you like wasting your EP on your characters and then delet them? I would ragequit too if I were you, lol.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Asuma wrote:
Kaito Kurusaki wrote:

Personally I always end up deleting the first 2-3 characters I make. This proposed change screams of bad quality. I'd probably end up ragequitting if it happened to me.

So you like wasting your EP on your characters and then delet them? I would ragequit too if I were you, lol.

If you're a new player, you're not going to know exactly where to spend EP. I don't think I did too badly and, even if I did, I don't mind waiting, but not everyone is like me.

There is a warning that tells you EP is account-based, not character-based, what this does is scares new players into not spending their points because they're afraid they might screw up and have to wait two weeks to "redeem" themselves.

Games should be designed to teach people from their bad mistakes, not punish them for it. If EP is the most valuable resource in this game then punishing players who make simple mistakes are not a good way to go about it. You were a newbie once, do you remember what it was like to know nothing about a game and wonder where the heck to start, and what all this new information meant?

Not every is going to search up the information on Google (or via the in-game help) like you or I did. And you shouldn't have to. I stated this in another topic: Games need to be accessible, you may call that "catering to casuals" but it's not, it's called good design practice. If a game is not accessible then your profits go down because the majority of people won't play.

Simply put: Treat your players as if they're stupid. You know those instruction manuals that teach you everything from scratch? The ones you scoff at and announce you don't need to know all that info? They do it, because some people do need to know. They're the proverbial "***" that needs their hand walked through everything, and that's how games instructions need to be designed: For dummies.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

CenDre wrote:

When is the last day of free character deletion?

Anyone know? When the new patch comes out?

39 (edited by Valkadesh 2010-11-28 18:34:26)

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Kaito Kurusaki wrote:

1. Will there be a fat warning when deleting a character?

2. What happens to all the new players starting up. There are those that don't use their EP because they are not sure which faction or startup cprps to choose. So they do some training assigments while learning more about the game before they decide to remake their character

Personally I always end up deleting the first 2-3 characters I make. This proposed change screams of bad quality. I'd probably end up ragequitting if it happened to me.

Welcome to "this is why we can't have nice things". It would be nice to think of the newbies. Unfortunately, we need to think of the tools who are already looking to game the system by mass rerolling characters and trying to kickstart the alt/multibox metagame again.

Times like this I wish the community wasn't so inundated with ex-Eve players. I see us making the mistakes of the past all over again.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

The main question being why the hell would you want to create more than three characters at first. You got no skill limit, and only your stats will prevail from one character to another, stats which - if you're a complete newbie - you won't envision the effect before a loooong time.

Therefore, just decide what you want to play before creating your character (indus, trade, soldier or inbetween) and choose your stats accordingly.

Skills and starting faction don't really matter, they're only a few days worth of EP and, unless you really screw off, will be useful.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

I for one made 3 different characters just not just to to see the difference it would make but also because i couldn't delete the first one for 24 hours. now after 2 days into the game i haven't spent any points yet but am bit more confident about the direction i want to take. I did not see the need to read the forums before starting the game and the in game help topic don't mention the fee. if all the time i spent in the game is going to evaporate if i delete the 3 chars i have then i will leave, not in rage but still. I don't see the point of the collective punishment going out over me not finding this thread on the forums

42 (edited by Valkadesh 2010-12-01 07:25:52)

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

CenDre wrote:

Charging EP to delete a worthless fluff character...... this is pure genius. I do believe this is will solve some of the issue with spy's. Honestly i don't see any reason to run more than one character per account anyway. I don't see this as a bad plan.

Because some people can't just play the game, they have to exploit the *** out of everything and metagame the *** out of it. This is why Eve has bot fleets and one man corps. People are already ready and willing to throw this game into the bin with all the others where "if you're not willing to cheat to win, don't bother". Legit players are already screwed. "Oh, didn't exploit the tutorial to stockpile a million Yagels? Enjoy being massively outresourced!"

This *** right here. This is why I'm already losing faith in what would otherwise be an awesome game. It's going to be the Eve community all over again.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Morgul wrote:
CenDre wrote:

When is the last day of free character deletion?

Anyone know? When the new patch comes out?


You will not get a refund if you delete a character right now.  I know for sure.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

I got into the game last night. Couldn't get the tutorial to progress past how to swivel your camera. It just wasn't catching it for me. After 30 minutes of not being able to shoot or mine or anything beyond move and swivel and getting mostly non-answers from help chat. I was about ready to forget about this game right there.

Came back after a bit to see if it would help to start a new character. Maybe I closed a window I shouldn't have or something. Took a few tries still to get the tutorial to work but it finally moved forward. Up to that point I wasn't really sure there was a tutorial.

Now I have two characters. I hate having vestigial characters lying about. Tried to delete. Got to wait 24 hours. No big deal.

Today I run into this post. First reaction? They are going to charge me EP for making a second agent because their tutorial is bugged? Nice.

Well, at least we have the three days. I am thankful for that. Just pointing out that a week from now some other guy will probably have a similar experience and wont be quite so pleased to be charged from the 1 resource which can't be replaced. At least from the perspective of those who hope to maximize their skill gain.


What would be much better would be to IMO, would be to charge NIC that slightly exceeds the value of the rewards from the tutorial missions. This would make it pointless to farm them. Second, normalize the rewards against the other mission. It is nice to have a boost at the beginning but rather disappointing to see your rewards drop out as you move to regular missions.

45

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

I don't have any trouble being charged a penalty for deleting a character. We can call it the Newb Tax or something. But then again, there isn't any benefit to deleting a character at all.

If you make a mistake choosing your Corp or School or Spark, live with the slightly increased Extension costs or create a new character. Better yet, create a new account, then choose which account to keep after the month is over.

If you're worried about the points you put into an Extension that you no longer want, there's nothing you can do to get them back so move on with your life. In the long run, those points don't matter.

Here's how simple this problem is:
1. Are you so unhappy with your character that you want to delete it?
-No: Continue playing.
-Yes: Start a new character and stop playing the old one.
2. The End.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Why do I need to delete anything, why do ANY OF YOU need to delete anything? Even if you have like max number of characters if you just leave them alone and play your main one - why is everyone so up about it? EPs are account related and shared between any characters on the account. So its OBVIOUS you'd want to spend as much Ep as possible on that one character.

If you don't delete anything - just forget about it and don't worry.

As far as this new rule goes - why the heck in every game devs always make players suffer instead of getting their crap straight? This one is going to be a major annoyance for new players.

This game will soon need a freaking big announcement on the login screen:
BEWARE OF THE HIDDEN PENALTIES AND CRAP HOLES AROUND THE BEATIFUL WORLD OF BLEH! cool

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Foo wrote:

...Here's how simple this problem is:
1. Are you so unhappy with your character that you want to delete it?
-No: Continue playing.
-Yes: Start a new character and stop playing the old one.
2. The End.

The problem is that you will be out of EPs. If your EPs are spent even if you delete all characters and create a completely new one - all the EPs will still be gone and time you spent on getting more - wasted.

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

People were deleting alts they never spent EP on, doing the tutorial missions and gaining lots of NIC, mods and bots for very little time invested.  It did not reflect the time and effort required for anyone else to achieve the same thing.  It has thrown the market off a lot for the related items and needed to be balanced out.  This change will do that.

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

49

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Chief Ubenor wrote:
Foo wrote:

...Here's how simple this problem is:
1. Are you so unhappy with your character that you want to delete it?
-No: Continue playing.
-Yes: Start a new character and stop playing the old one.
2. The End.

The problem is that you will be out of EPs. If your EPs are spent even if you delete all characters and create a completely new one - all the EPs will still be gone and time you spent on getting more - wasted.

What I wrote has nothing to do with what you said.

There is absolutely no way to get back any EP you spend. Period.

So either deal with the points you spent, or create a new character and start over. Or quit.

50

Re: Character Deletion EP Cost (updated)

Neoxx wrote:

People were deleting alts they never spent EP on, doing the tutorial missions and gaining lots of NIC, mods and bots for very little time invested.  It did not reflect the time and effort required for anyone else to achieve the same thing.  It has thrown the market off a lot for the related items and needed to be balanced out.  This change will do that.

I approve of this. It still won't prevent this from happening, because until we reach a character limit on an account, you can still do it. But it's a step in the right direction.