Topic: Combining Decoders

hey guys, happy X-mas.

i had an idea about making the decoders system friendlier.

something that would help us transform lower lvl decoders in higher lvl ones, like 1000 lvl 1 decoders make one lvl 10 decoder.

like refining skill based..

what do you guys think?

Re: Combining Decoders

I think it's a good idea, though the cost would have to be in a way that it's still worthwhile to farm those high level kernels directly from NPCs.
Maybe having to mix the decoders with something else like fragments or even kernels?

Re: Combining Decoders

It's a nice idea I guess but the code would have to be very high and static.
Issue being people would farm low decoders all day just to get a medium level decoder rather than get high level decoders in the same time.

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4 (edited by Evolution 2010-12-25 12:41:22)

Re: Combining Decoders

i was thinking of something like
from ql 1 -> ql 2, u'll need 10x ql 1 decoders
from ql 2 -> ql 3, u'll need 10x ql 2 decoders

and so on.

but this rates will be influenced by rifinery skill.

or better, from dec 1 to dec 2, u'll need 10x dec 1
from 2 to 3, 9x dec 2
from 3 to 4, 8x dec 3
from 4 to 5, 7x dec 4
from 5 to 6, 6x dec 5
from 6 to 7, 5x dec 6
from 7 to 8, 4x dec 7
from 8 to 9, 3x dec 8
from 9 to 10, 2x dec 9

5 (edited by Henkst 2010-12-25 13:10:34)

Re: Combining Decoders

Good idea.

I'd do something like this:

x = (1*(x-1)) + (2*(x-2))+1 + (3*(x-3))+2

where x is the decoder lvl you aim for.

This would mean - to make a lvl 10 decoder you'd need:

1 lvl10 = 1 lvl9 + 3 lvl8 + 5 lvl7

the others would be made of:

1 lvl9 = 1 lvl8 + 3 lvl7 + 5 lvl6

1 lvl8 = 1 lvl7 + 3 lvl6 + 5 lvl5

1 lvl7 = 1 lvl6 + 3 lvl5 + 5 lvl4

1 lvl6 = 1 lvl5 + 3 lvl4 + 5 lvl3

1 lvl5 = 1 lvl4 + 3 lvl3 + 5 lvl2

1 lvl4 = 1 lvl3 + 3 lvl2 + 5 lvl1

now to start from scratch and only start with decoders lvl1-3 you would need:

1 lvl5 = 4*lvl3 + 7*lvl2 + 5 lvl1

1 lvl6 = 12*lvl3 + 16*lvl2 + 20*lvl1

1 lvl7 = 29*lvl3 + 55*lvl2 + 60*lvl1

1 lvl8 = 85*lvl3 + 133*lvl2 + 145*lvl1

1 lvl9 = 232*lvl3 + 378*lvl2 + 425*lvl1

1 lvl10 = 632*lvl3 + 1052*lvl2 + 1160*lvl1

Re: Combining Decoders

Evolution wrote:

i was thinking of something like
from ql 1 -> ql 2, u'll need 10x ql 1 decoders
from ql 2 -> ql 3, u'll need 10x ql 2 decoders

and so on.

but this rates will be influenced by rifinery skill.

or better, from dec 1 to dec 2, u'll need 10x dec 1
from 2 to 3, 9x dec 2
from 3 to 4, 8x dec 3
from 4 to 5, 7x dec 4
from 5 to 6, 6x dec 5
from 6 to 7, 5x dec 6
from 7 to 8, 4x dec 7
from 8 to 9, 3x dec 8
from 9 to 10, 2x dec 9


;D You would need 3.628.800 lvl 1 decoders to make 1 lvl 10 tongue

7 (edited by Blackomen 2010-12-25 15:14:07)

Re: Combining Decoders

Henkst wrote:
Evolution wrote:

i was thinking of something like
from ql 1 -> ql 2, u'll need 10x ql 1 decoders
from ql 2 -> ql 3, u'll need 10x ql 2 decoders

and so on.

but this rates will be influenced by rifinery skill.

or better, from dec 1 to dec 2, u'll need 10x dec 1
from 2 to 3, 9x dec 2
from 3 to 4, 8x dec 3
from 4 to 5, 7x dec 4
from 5 to 6, 6x dec 5
from 6 to 7, 5x dec 6
from 7 to 8, 4x dec 7
from 8 to 9, 3x dec 8
from 9 to 10, 2x dec 9


;D You would need 3.628.800 lvl 1 decoders to make 1 lvl 10 tongue

Sounds good to me, now get out to beta islands to farm 10's so I can shoot something. tongue

But seriously, this seems like a good idea as long as it takes a crapload to upgrade them. Since level 1 decoders are currently worthless, and most just destroy them as junk.

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8 (edited by Annihilator 2010-12-25 15:26:38)

Re: Combining Decoders

we had that suggestion already in closed beta.
it was turned down by the beta testers (especially the PvP faction), because they feared china-farmers would just grind low lvl npcs to get their hands on as many decoders as possible.

i can't find the old topic anymore, it had some good and some bad arguments in it.

*edit - found it: Beta archive topic

9 (edited by Henkst 2010-12-25 15:27:54)

Re: Combining Decoders

1 lvl10 = 632*lvl3 + 1052*lvl2 + 1160*lvl1

would be a crapload but still feasible.

All this shouldnt influence pvp it all - if it does theres something else wrong.

Outposts should give way more bonus to crafting items - not only make them less expensive but make them better.

10 (edited by Evolution 2010-12-25 22:00:08)

Re: Combining Decoders

i still think this resolution will best fit the situation of the decoders

from 2 to 3, 9x dec 2
from 3 to 4, 8x dec 3
from 4 to 5, 7x dec 4
from 5 to 6, 6x dec 5
from 6 to 7, 5x dec 6
from 7 to 8, 4x dec 7
from 8 to 9, 3x dec 8
from 9 to 10, 2x dec 9

or even -> one lvl 10 dec = 1*lvl9 + 2*lvl8
the 5*lvl 7 is too much.

but then again not a bad idea still.

11 (edited by Henkst 2010-12-26 00:55:03)

Re: Combining Decoders

No, not a bad idea - of course not - but you would now still need 362.880 thousand! lvl 2 decoders to form a lvl 10 as opposed to the first numbers where you needed more then 3.6 million lvl1 decoders.

the ratio in which low lvl decoders are needed to form a higher lvl one opposed to less higher lvl decoders needed to build a higher one is way out of line that way:

you would need 362.880 lvl 1 decoders but only 24 lvl 7 decoders to form a lvl 10 decoder.

your algorithm: x = (x-1)*((x*-1)+11) creates an degrading imbalance between lvl 1 decoders which will be even worth less then now - or higher lvl decoders, which become exponentially more expensive then now.

but still - a good idea - just a different math needed.

Re: Combining Decoders

Yes, I like this idea just as long as its a *** ton to upgrade, so the culumative value comes no where close to the value of the upgraded item.  It would be a nice boost to the value of low level decoders making them at least worth keeping, but wouldnt degrade the value of high level decoders.

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Re: Combining Decoders

Checking the market it seems that with the exclusion of level 1 and 2 decoders prices go up by a factor of about 3 when going up a decoder level.

There seems to be nothing that would suggest that a scaling conversion rate would be needed.

I think a simple rate of 5 lvl x decoders = 1 lvl (x+1) decoder would work.

You'd need near 2 million lvl 1 decoders for a single lvl 10 decoder. But I think the mechanism isn't there to allow players to farm lower lvl decoders to take care of their higher lvl decoder needs but instead to give the market a way to deal with an excess of low lvl decoders. Traders buy low lvl decoders at low prices and with the bulk they purchase they massively turn it into higher lvl decoders which they can sell at a profit.

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Re: Combining Decoders

i agree gobla big_smile

Re: Combining Decoders

I don't have a strong opinion on the original idea; not strongly against it, but a glut of low-level decoders isn't actually a problem. It may disappoints farmers who wanted pre-glut prices for their lvl1 and lvl2, and pleases newbie manufacturers who can cheaply play with manufacturing, but any change is likely to disappoint some players and please some other players.

But if the devs were to implement something like this, possibly a similar downconversion rate would be reasonable too. Then the various decoders markets would become a loosely-coupled distributed market, with the lvl 3s and lvl 5s acting as price caps and floors for the lvl 4s and so on. That might increase decoder liquidity (things that can be priced are more liquid than things  that are hard to price) and almost everybody prefers liquid markets.

Re: Combining Decoders

Please do not give me something else to mindlessly farm within this game.....

Re: Combining Decoders

BigCountry wrote:

Please do not give me something else to mindlessly farm within this game.....

Clearly, you would have to farm it.  We'd better drop the idea then, I'd hate to sandify your coozey.

Re: Combining Decoders

I like this idea.

Re: Combining Decoders

I think it would be nice to be able to combine lower level decoders to be able to get higher level ones rather than having them be completely worthless.  I'm not even that far in to manufacturing and I don't use anything less than a 5 and I'd guess the higher level ones see a lot more use.

Being able to, say, combine 5 lvl 1 decoders to get a lvl 2 and 5 2's to get a 3 or whatever would be very nice, and give newbies a small extra revenue stream while giving a minor boost to production for everyone.

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Re: Combining Decoders

I think you need a use for level 1 to 3 decoders, or at least some kind of value on them. Right now who is going to bother with level 1s? Maybe you should be able to combine level 1s into level 2s, and level 2s into level 3s, and maybe level 3s into level 4s, but not above that.

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