1 (edited by Annihilator 2011-03-09 12:16:06)

Topic: POS - why?

I often read "we need POS for the game ASAP!"

For several weeks now, i'm trying to figure out, what positive change a POS-system aside of the Intrusion system would make, and especially, how would it differ from it at all?

I couldn't find any...

(for the new ones: Player owned Structures)

Those who are asking for it - please share your Intentions/Reasons.

Edit: updated the definition

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: POS - why?

Control access, to fight and destroy, to harvest more stuff etc etc, to form defensive structures basically as another thing for industry and pvpers to do and for money to be spent on

Re: POS - why?

I think of POS more as Player Owned Stuctures, which can be stations, mining outpost, farms, ect.

Basically POS is anything that is player constructed.

Stations are one item, but POS in general will help the game in two ways regardless of what the 's' is.

First, the game needs, very very badly, an end-game NIC sink. POS's should be expensive to build, operated, defend; to a varying degree appropriate with the type of structure. Being an End-game Corp should require a large and ongoing NIC sink, requiring an active player base to continually generate income, or lose the POS.

Second, is a sense of ownership and having an impact/effect on the game world and to create additional points of contention for more conflict.

The POS needs to have some value in and of itself, to justify any NIC sink. This could be strategic like a remote base, or tactical like turrerts, as well as remote processing units closer to the resources; processed ore is less U so easier to move.

Of course, POS in end-game only makes sense if there is conflict, a need for more bots, more and better modules. Or building smaller POS, mining outpost, to get to the big POS, like a full station.

Re: POS - why?

too early in the game for pos me thinks. Give it time, everyone is in a hurry to add 999999 things of contect, game is young, let it develope....

Re: POS - why?

i already hate the alarm clock intrusions

Re: POS - why?

As one of those who is vocal about POS I will try to add some justification from my own personal point of view.

Human nature centrers around some very basic needs, that of accumulation, creation, destruction and control. The biggest flaw in this game right now (and I freely admit to this myself) is that it is far too easy to just wait out any attack on your island. There is nothing to protect, the OP and intrusions are a frustrating distraction to this. Over the past few months of play I have seen the flip flop of OPs for little strategic gain. Lost your OP? Just wait til a good time for your particular alliance and take it back.

POS needs to change this dynamic. The intrusion system is flawed in it's reliance on timed events and POS can possibly alter this to make it more tactical to hold or take important structures.

As above, and in a previous post I made (will get link later), POS need to provide NIC /resource sinks and provide motivation for alliance to actually fight for their territory. There is also little for industrial corps to do right now, being able to specialise in something which requires those 'alpha' skills and allows alpha corps to provide services to beta corps is what is needed. POS can provide a vital change in our Market dynamics which allows alpha corps/players to provide materials and services to beta corps. Just make it require a lot of time on alpha (not grind, actual living on alpha) to produce required materials that beta corps have to buy and your create a two way dynamic.

Right now it's easy for anyone in this game to say 'meh' and log if an enemy attacks, there is nothing I HAVE to defend, I can just go watch a film and come back later. POx (resource collectors, defensive structure, whatever you can think of) give me a reason to undock and try to at least take down some enemy before I die to protect my investment. For the ppl who want to accumulate and create they have a fantastic avenue, for the destructive natured, there are more incentives for ppl to fight giving us all more targets.

Give me a reason to fight, there just isn't one right now.

"like Kalsius, a shameless carebear and jitalover" - Syndic
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com/killboard/

Re: POS - why?

Listen to this guy ^

Re: POS - why?

yes, i really hope they add some sort of PoS to the game that will allow corps to make a footprint on the game.

Re: POS - why?

If your, Meh not undocking now, the addition of POS isn't going to motivate you to undock. If POS is intiated where it is continually vulnerable, that is it must be defended 24/7/365, corporations are going to need a very large ACTIVE player base.

** Insert comment about how they have something like this in Eve and it works there so it will work in this game, insert insert reply about this isn't Eve and/or the player base is 1000 times smaller; generally just comment on how it will work here  instead of how it works somewhere else **

The most likely scenerio is that 8 to 10 attackers show up against your 2-3 defenders. And the first time it happens, you undock and lose the POS, and after that you don't bother unless odds are even or better.

Now depending on what the POS does and how expensive it is, an even more likely event is that alliances and corporations just don't build them; or they build and lose the first one and don't make another.

If this happens, that is if the POS system is added to the game and fails, that will probably be the last straw.

The good news, is that POS isn't promised any time soon, so that gives them time to get it right. We also don't have really any indication about what and how POS is going to be implemented, so its all speculation.

What I would like to see for functional POS items, like remote mining outposts, is that they are fully sheilded and basically tank all but a full scale assault, but also are not functional. To start producing, the sheild must be dropped.

This prevents small or even medium sized groups from destroying expensive POS's during corporate 'off hours', but doesn't make it invincable. But the POS provides no benefit unless it is vulnerable. If however an alliance takes over an area, they can send 50+ bots over and clear off the offending object.

Things like stations wouldn't neccesarily be sheilded, but have so much HP that it would take hours for a large gang to kill it. And it would not be usable until the owner paid to fix the majority of the damage.

Re: POS - why?

POS isn't the best extra attraction to get more population. We've gone over other additions/fixes that would attract more population to the game, which in turn would provide more opponents/fun.

I believe other stuff is warranted and pos adventures aren't really apporpiate right now with the current active population in the game.


A moving pos would be neat, but anyhow..

Sorry agra I didn't post directly in the thread as you had asked, my apologies.

Re: POS - why?

indeed arga, nice summary of what i came up with when thinking about it.

if you exaggerate a bit the neuralgis incubator is the first POS ingame - and you see how well it works for the majority - you plant it, and while your away, someone destroys or collects it.
you pay, someone else profits.

the landmass is far to small to hide anything.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: POS - why?

Its OK Mara, your response wasn't appropriate for the *insert* section anyway, not snipey enough smile


We are talking about POS now, but the time frame is so far out, 3-6 months, that the other fixes and ammenities you allude to have to come out first anyway; the alternate would be months without nothing as we wait.

A few good sound bites in the Dev's ears now however, could result in a better POS later.

Give me swarms of NPCs now!!

Re: POS - why?

Getting the new land mass could help the market too, with more 'plants' getting harvested (because there's more space to hide them), it may be worth it for players to actually sell tiered items.

Re: POS - why?

Annihilator wrote:

if you exaggerate a bit the neuralgis incubator is the first POS ingame - and you see how well it works for the majority - you plant it, and while your away, someone destroys or collects it.
you pay, someone else profits.

Actually POS'es is always protected by powerfull stationary turrets. You cant just come and pop it with small group. I guess when someone will attack it there will be the message about it. Or shield domes. Only large groups of mechs and heavy mechs will be able to destroy POS. That's the point of POS, there will be more point to use heavy robots too.

Re: POS - why?

because big islands, or even bigger continents are in the works,
and the topic is hot again: *bump*

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: POS - why?

Put a POS next to epriton field and mine with no risk
Put Pos at a choke point for easy defense

Whether this would be good is a different matter, but some people would like to have them

Re: POS - why?

This game needs something. It might not be a POS system (Given the time line at launch should be ready around 3 months from now).

Currently their and no personal objectives past the 6 month mark and the first 6 months really don't involve much either. There is enough to play causally and set small goals of asset acquisitions for a very long time but team based combat and objectives has always been very lacking. Bigger island will take a long time to finish and even longer to make.. well.. work and be balanced. I can only hope a larger island that has NO teleporters but where you can setup base camps might be a lot of fun but that's only going to benefit active players.

18 (edited by Gremrod 2011-09-03 02:43:45)

Re: POS - why?

I think the whole PoS thing comes down to one simple word, "Accomplishment".

Let players build and construct things that change or resharp the world around them always gives a since of accomplishment.

People want to cut out their own piece of the pie in some corner and call it home.

I think the static outposts don't give the player this type of accomplishment.

But let a player build something on the terrian and use it to build more things and it will give them a since of accomplishment.

It is human nature to want to control our surroundings and that goes the same in games. I would guess that is why the sandbox style game exists.

PoS or X whatever it maybe is a tool that allows the player to create their own content in the world.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: POS - why?

Pos = snooze fest = alarm clock cta = BORING IM GOING BACK TO SLEEP lol

Just Sayin
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Re: POS - why?

A POS could take many forms. It could be an upgradeable fortress, with its own turrets, shields and armor.  Each of those would require mods, which would act as NIC sinks, and make engineers more useful.  Not to mention the repairs required after attacks.

These fortresses could become focus points for attacks from swarms of alien bots (like the forts in Tabula Rasa). POS could also be advanced mining complexes, advanced production complexes, and portals.

The only real limit to what could be done is the time and talent required to create it. Code, and art assets would have to be generated, and AC's team isn't all that large.

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

Re: POS - why?

As long as the poses in this game have absolutely nothing similar with the poses in Eve, I would be fine with them.

In fact, I don't like the idea of them at all. I think an activity based thing like in the devblog is best.

Re: POS - why?

What i want to see from pos system is a tiered hierarchy.
Each building will have a set of tiers. The lowest tier will have small amount of armor and small efficiency. Highest tier will be a strong and powerful building. The difference between tier is that the lowest tier you can build with a bit of resource and argano. To improove tier you should use better industrial and more resources.

The most important thing what will boost this system and what will allow everyone, even 1day account to build a building: giant landmass. So huge, so you can spend 5 hours and find your spot whee you can hide your small base.
EVERYONE will be happy:
For small corps: They can be everywhere. It will be hard to find their structures because they are small and emmits less signals and easy to kill.
for large corps: Its easy to find them because they emmints *** of signals and hard to kill.
for medium corps: half of both statements.

Re: POS - why?

Alexadar, your right. If a "continent" is implemented, with less teleporter and only some highway routes, there needs to be something i can deploy on ground, which grants me that my stuff is still there next day i log in.

IMHO there needs to be another change: a reason to go there if there are no static grinding NPC spawns. (For PvE combat player)
A reason to roam around in a small squad or alone without a lithus to carry all the loot, which you cannot dump anywhere without going back to a terminal.

Usually that was rare item drops, gold and experience, or a story driven goal.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: POS - why?

Im agree that static npc spawns is a problem.
Would like to see dynamic AI algorithm what will eventually teleport group of NPC somewhere on island, and they will build their own town, to fight with human-controlled bots. PVE players will have fun to have hour and more combat operation to put down npc defences, buildings, evil reds etc. Farming(grinding) will be much fun and differs from another mmo's.

Re: POS - why?

Don't see the point in POS with the current landmass setup. Small islands multiple outposts on each, where are the POS going to go exactly and what is there point?

Give perpetuum a full game world please, one giant landmass!