Topic: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

Ok, so im more than happy with the accumulator changes for lasers, but a massive problem still remains for the LCL medium lasers - Damage, or lack of it.

LCL may have less of a fitting req. and use 5AP less and -slightly- lower ROF , but only 28% more damage? really?

With my current extentions i get around 200m range using the longer ranged ammo using LCL, while getting 378m range with long range.

I would fix this by giving a lower ROF for short range weapons ( For all weapons).  There has to be a big reason to use short range equipment.

Or you could have more % on damage.

Either of the two would fix this.

Another idea is to lower the hit dispersion, which I think is ok, because then you have a reason to fight smaller bots at close range.  This is also an advantage to the smaller bots, as they will be fighting within thier range.

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

Well, after thinking about this a few minutes, i ended by agreeing with you: low range versions of all weapons would need a little boost ... be it damage, sure, but what about lower hit dispersion?
This would make short range medium weapons the good alternative for hunting lighter bots.
less miss resulting in an average dps increase, i could be really ok with this smile

Also remember, they will, one day, finally get rid of the tracking stat, to replace it with the "maybe" min range.
With this, long range weapons will be in some trouble when facing oponents managing to get in their dead range (that is, if i'm correct, more than 100m on long range med lasers ... quite a lot for me)

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

I already mentioned lower hit dispersion =p

But yes there will be a replacement for tracking, even still I think that will work like a reverse of falloff.

And if they do have a "too close" penalty, theres the issue of long range using multifreq/composite ammo.   

When using multifreq on a HLC laser, without skills you have 162.5m range, with a DPS output of 10.
  Or a DPS of 7.33 at 325m range.

When using multifreq on a LCL laser, without skills you have a 87.5m range, with a DPS output just over 15.
  Or a DPS of 11.2 with a 175m range.

The base numbers seem fine at first glance, but when you introduce extentions it gets bad for short range.   

  The cycle time reduction and range extension skills have a naturally larger effect on the longer range weapon The base factors are higher, so the effect of the % bonus is higher.

  IE:  3% of 325m is something like 9-10m while 3% of 175 is only 5m ish

With my current extensions:
I get a cycle time of 4.77 sec and 374m on a HLC laser.
I get a cycle time of 3.98 sec and 201m on a LCL laser.

That .7 seconds effects the DPS grately, but i already knocked off 1.3 seconds, and at level 10 it has a further reduction down to 4.2 seconds.  And when you add 5% reduction pr tuning the gap becomes less of a gap.

While its true the extenions effect the LCL lasers too, its like i said, the base factors on HLC are higher, so those extenions have more of an effect, as do the tunings.


Anyway, just thought i'd add some solid numbers to my OP.

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

short range wepons need to weight more than they do now.

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

Siddy wrote:

short range wepons need to weight more than they do now.

What?

If anything short range weapons should be lighter, its common sense that they have less mechanics to them.

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

Daniel wrote:

If anything short range weapons should be lighter, its common sense that they have less mechanics to them.

I have already made 2(and a half) posts on this topic:
1) hit dipersion on short range guns
2) weight difference on short/long range guns.

I guess I am not that vehement in 'demanding' changes like others...

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

Maynard Benaui wrote:
Daniel wrote:

If anything short range weapons should be lighter, its common sense that they have less mechanics to them.

I have already made 2(and a half) posts on this topic:
1) hit dipersion on short range guns
2) weight difference on short/long range guns.

I guess I am not that vehement in 'demanding' changes like others...


Just replying to the post made by siddy, nothing more.  This is more or less about the weaknesses of short range vs long range.

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

Daniel wrote:
Siddy wrote:

short range wepons need to weight more than they do now.

What?

If anything short range weapons should be lighter, its common sense that they have less mechanics to them.


no actualy higer RoF means more parts...

more weight!

The close range wepons need disadvantage, and thats weight, because if closerange mech get close to longrange mech, its 100% toast.

Also it costs more fitting to fit long range guns! closerange bots can have tank!

Last edited by Siddy (2010-02-18 23:59:45)

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

Siddy wrote:

The close range wepons need disadvantage, and thats weight, because if closerange mech get close to longrange mech, its 100% toast.

How do you want to get in close range if you are slower in the first place?

That is not a disadvantage, that makes the platform useless.

Last edited by Maynard Benaui (2010-02-19 12:48:17)

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

i dont get that discussion at all...

is it about the differnce between long and short range laser,

or is it one about long and short range weapons at all? 

AFAIK, the bot with the most devestating firepower can rush towards his pray and shoot it down with just a few volleys (highest damage Gauss on Kain). Thats a tactic that should be possible. BUT

can someone tell me how to counter that? Demob? Supressor? Shields (wait that shield bonus on Laser-bots was called useless) Only problem i see here, is, that the laser bot wont be able to gain distance against a Kain, even demobed ... Kains are too fast for my taste (or artemis to slow)

Question to the PvP-player with named equip: would it be possible to bring down a close-ranged Kain with an long-ranged Artemis before it gets critical? (that means Accupower and Hitpoint-wise)

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

soo...
gone quiet here...

LCL may have less of a fitting req. and use 5AP less and -slightly- lower ROF , but only 28% more damage? really?

only you say? ony my seth thats 53% more DPS for the short range weapon...

sure thats not very impressive, if you compare it to the differnce between EM and Gauss guns... but its something noticeable.

Re: Lasers - Short range vs Long range

Bunkerkind Anni wrote:

Question to the PvP-player with named equip: would it be possible to bring down a close-ranged Kain with an long-ranged Artemis before it gets critical? (that means Accupower and Hitpoint-wise)


If the kain is faster, artemis is dead.

If the artemis is faster, the kain is dead.