1 (edited by Blackomen 2011-01-14 04:14:21)

Topic: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

Well since both of these were reported, and neither was fixed in the patch. Here are two major bugs to warn the community about.

1. Harvesting skills "DO NOTHING". Neither the extensive triandius/helioptris harvesting or the intensive versions work. The only one that does is the Intensive agriculture extention.

Video to be provided to any devs that need it.

2. Refining ratios are borked, badly. Currently having a LOWER refining skills with high standings offers BETTER results.

eg.
Level 10 refining + 31% standings = 22 titan ore to 1 titanium
Level 9 refining + 31% standings = 20 titan ore to 1 titanium

Video also provided on dev request, since videos for some reason get these bugs noticed more.

Oldest player still in the game. Perpetuum for life.
Original Founder of M2S, may it rest in peace. sad
"Hungarian Math" is defined by the dictionary as "Just like normal math, but where each equation ends by dividing the sum by Potato."
-Shoutout to "Stranger Danger" for the "potato" comment.

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

1. Harvesting skills "DO NOTHING". Neither the extensive triandius/helioptris harvesting or the intensive versions work. The only one that does is the Intensive agriculture extention.

after fixing my spreadsheet with new data and formulas, and then comparing with my ingame data - i can say at least, the "complex agriculture" and the "complex helioptris harvesting" does work.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

Annihilator wrote:

1. Harvesting skills "DO NOTHING". Neither the extensive triandius/helioptris harvesting or the intensive versions work. The only one that does is the Intensive agriculture extention.

after fixing my spreadsheet with new data and formulas, and then comparing with my ingame data - i can say at least, the "complex agriculture" and the "complex helioptris harvesting" does work.

You are aware that there is no "complex agriculture" and "complex helioptris" extentions right? Those have never existed.

Assuming you "meant" to say "intensive harvesting" and "intesnsive helioptris harvesting" the first one I already confirmed as working in the initial post. The second "according to the devs" affects both plants and not just the one it's supposed to. The "extensive" skills do absolutely nothing currently.

Oh and an update on the other bug, according to DEV CRM it's a REALLY REALLY weird rounding system. I still think it's bugged, but I'll give it a little more testing.

Oldest player still in the game. Perpetuum for life.
Original Founder of M2S, may it rest in peace. sad
"Hungarian Math" is defined by the dictionary as "Just like normal math, but where each equation ends by dividing the sum by Potato."
-Shoutout to "Stranger Danger" for the "potato" comment.

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

sorry, in english its extensive - in german its "komplexe"

and if it does nothing for you - its does something for me -

without bot-bonus or tunings (eg. using the sequer) i harvest 220 Triandlus and 380 Helioptris per cycle.

with base per cycle beeing 200 triandlus and 300 helioptris - > how would you explain those numbers i get out of those plants, if the extensive skills do nothing?

with my current standing lvls (all extensives on lvl5) i should get 253 Triandlus and 380 Helioptris (Formulas approved by the DEVgod of balancing)
actually

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

5 (edited by Blackomen 2011-01-17 23:18:07)

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

Annihilator wrote:

sorry, in english its extensive - in german its "komplexe"

and if it does nothing for you - its does something for me -

without bot-bonus or tunings (eg. using the sequer) i harvest 220 Triandlus and 380 Helioptris per cycle.

with base per cycle beeing 200 triandlus and 300 helioptris - > how would you explain those numbers i get out of those plants, if the extensive skills do nothing?

with my current standing lvls (all extensives on lvl5) i should get 253 Triandlus and 380 Helioptris (Formulas approved by the DEVgod of balancing)
actually

I do want to correct something, I tested extensive helioptris harvesting and found that it does now work correctly. However "at least for me" extensive triandius harvesting is still completely broken. And gives the same 328 units at both level 0 extensive, and level 4 extensive. Not sure whats going on, but it is broken for me.

PS: the 328 units is with a symbiont at level 5 advanced robotics. If it is indeed 200 base per cycle, then mine is broken in the wrong direction. Which I wouldn't mind. smile However your numbers are wrong, I had two corpmates test it and both also got 328 per cycle. So your getting numbers that arn't possible.

Oldest player still in the game. Perpetuum for life.
Original Founder of M2S, may it rest in peace. sad
"Hungarian Math" is defined by the dictionary as "Just like normal math, but where each equation ends by dividing the sum by Potato."
-Shoutout to "Stranger Danger" for the "potato" comment.

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

You got lvl5 extensive agriculture (which works) and 4x standard tuning equipped for those 328 Triandlus per cycle.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

Confirming refining is not working properly, trained to lvl 9 today with 34% relation to the green people, no change in delta!

Level 8 refining + 34% standings = 29 titan ore to 1 titanium in tm-a
Level 9 refining + 34% standings = 29 titan ore to 1 titanium in tm-a

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

Any official response on this?

Former CEO of X-23

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

I have tested the harvesting extensions extensively and intensively, here's what I found:

Extensive and intensive agriculture both work.

Extensive helioptris harvesting - works, yield is properly increased
Extensive triandlus harvesting - no effect, definitely a bug

Intensive helioptris harvesting and intensive triandlus harvesting:

The effects of both combined are shown on the information panel of the harvester module, reducing the cycle time - this is wrong, since the harvesting ammo is universal and we don't know which plant you'll be harvesting.

I tried to test the actual harvesting with a stopwatch and despite the fact that this proved to be a bit difficult since the difference between level1 and level10 is marginal (around 1 sec), it also seemed to confirm that both intensive extensions work, and they both do this for both plants (so effectively doubled effect). Which is of course a bug too smile

That's all for now from the wonderful world of Perpetuum. In our next episode we'll try to cook something in the refining facility.

10 (edited by Krupp 2011-01-27 12:18:22)

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

DEV Zoom wrote:

... In our next episode we'll try to cook something in the refining facility.

Cant be to hard to test, this 10k ep i just wasted makes me emo. sad

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

Thanks for the update. I personally consider the refining bug more critical. I would love to see some confirmation of it asap.

Thanks

Former CEO of X-23

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

So, the refinery.

(Blackomen: I don't know how you got 20 titanium for level9+31% standings, it was 23 for me.)

The issues you saw when sometimes you had the same numbers after you upgraded the refinery extension come simply from rounding. Yield modifiers have been applied before the quantity multiplication, and this could produce really skewed numbers the higher the quantity was. This could have been either advantageous or bad for you, as you can see in the chart below.

We have now put the yield modifiers after the quantity multiplication, so this will be solved in the coming patch.

The numbers are pretty self-explanatory I think:

Rank III refinery
Titan ore requirements for 1000 titanium

Relation% Material%  Before  After
31%       10%        28000   28283
31%       20%        27000   27483
31%       30%        27000   26726
31%       40%        26000   26010
31%       50%        25000   25332
31%       60%        25000   24688
31%       70%        24000   24076
31%       80%        23000   23493
31%       90%        23000   22938
31%       100%       22000   22409

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

Thank you.

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

I too stumbled across the extensive triandlus harvesting bug.

@DEV Zoom

I would remove the universal harvester charges and add specific helioptris/triandlus harvester charges. I guess the above bugs both are a result of the universal charges.
quote: "we don't know which plant you'll be harvesting"

When and if you do it, you would only have to disable the templates and give some compensation (21 NIC per charge) for the remaining universal charges. With the compensation people can decide if they want change their universal charges to helioptris or triandlus charges.

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

I never liked the universe harvester charges but I guess they made sense. What would be better to make harvesting not like mining extensions and change the way they work. Grade plants into common, rare and exotic or something. Then group plants within those groups.

The Game

Re: Two gamebreaking bugs that were supposed to get fixed.

Alexander wrote:

I never liked the universe harvester charges but I guess they made sense. What would be better to make harvesting not like mining extensions and change the way they work. Grade plants into common, rare and exotic or something. Then group plants within those groups.

But then, why would miners have to specialize in mining certain ores efficiently? And why do we need different miner charges? The answer could be something like "Because you need different energy wave lengths to mine different ore". But this should also apply to harvesting.

There will still be a difference between mining and harvesting: There are no basic/advanced/expert intensive harvesting extensions. This makes some sense because plants only have a very limited amount of cycles.