Topic: Industry Alts Unfair

This is just me, but I think it's really unfair that a player can make a new account for an industry alt, skill it up in only one very focussed way, and then be highly competetive as an industrial manufacturer - they're not really playing with the toon at all! They're just using it as a convenient skill-dump that gets pulled out every so often.

The faction relationship bonus helps, in that players who actually PLAY with their industrial toon will haev a bit of an advantage, but even that only needs to be grinded up once.

I think it'd be really great if the relationship bonus was more important, and if it automatically degraded over time - so people wouldn't be able to seriously compete in the market with an industry toon that they don't touch except to start/stop manufacturing lines.

As it is, I think it's really unfair that people who actually play their industry toons intensively have comparitively little advantage over those who just buy a second account and skill it up. hmm

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

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Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Nimda Morris wrote:

This is just me, but I think it's really unfair that a player can make a new account for an industry alt, skill it up in only one very focussed way, and then be highly competetive as an industrial manufacturer - they're not really playing with the toon at all! They're just using it as a convenient skill-dump that gets pulled out every so often.

The faction relationship bonus helps, in that players who actually PLAY with their industrial toon will haev a bit of an advantage, but even that only needs to be grinded up once.

I think it'd be really great if the relationship bonus was more important, and if it automatically degraded over time - so people wouldn't be able to seriously compete in the market with an industry toon that they don't touch except to start/stop manufacturing lines.

As it is, I think it's really unfair that people who actually play their industry toons intensively have comparitively little advantage over those who just buy a second account and skill it up. hmm

+1 to that idea

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Nimda Morris wrote:

This is just me, but I think it's really unfair that a player can make a new account for an industry alt, skill it up in only one very focussed way, and then be highly competetive as an industrial manufacturer - they're not really playing with the toon at all! They're just using it as a convenient skill-dump that gets pulled out every so often.

The faction relationship bonus helps, in that players who actually PLAY with their industrial toon will haev a bit of an advantage, but even that only needs to be grinded up once.

I think it'd be really great if the relationship bonus was more important, and if it automatically degraded over time - so people wouldn't be able to seriously compete in the market with an industry toon that they don't touch except to start/stop manufacturing lines.

As it is, I think it's really unfair that people who actually play their industry toons intensively have comparitively little advantage over those who just buy a second account and skill it up. hmm

People can do whatever they like with an account they pay for......does this mean that casual PvP players should be penalized over die hards? Or industrialists that only get on their PvP combat toon once in a while should be penalized?

Who the $#@% is stEvE?

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

A full industry player will be much more competetive than an industry alt.  Yes, they can have production lines for a corp and be pretty much afk, but if you really want to be an industrialist, you will be doing things like marketing and mining along with it, so you'll need to spend much more time on it.

Time playing is valuable in this game for sure, but production only characters certainly have it easier.

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Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Zhyntil wrote:

People can do whatever they like with an account they pay for......does this mean that casual PvP players should be penalized over die hards? Or industrialists that only get on their PvP combat toon once in a while should be penalized?

Casual PVP players are already penalized - PVP in this game is _tough_. (Or at least I think so, anyway.) Keeping up to date with tactic of the week and playing smart seems to beat out extensions most of the time, from what I've seen. Staying current on that, and knowing who does what where, needs you to be very, very active.


Neoxx wrote:

A full industry player will be much more competetive than an industry alt.  Yes, they can have production lines for a corp and be pretty much afk, but if you really want to be an industrialist, you will be doing things like marketing and mining along with it, so you'll need to spend much more time on it.

Time playing is valuable in this game for sure, but production only characters certainly have it easier.

I really can't agree with this. The major element in being a competetive industrialist is the efficiency - how much cheaper you can produce your goods for. If you're capable of undercutting pretty much everybody else by just having an alt that can produce things better, I think that's really unfair, particularly when someone who plays an industrialist like you suggest will be seriously hurt by the EP they have to put into robot control and the like.

7 (edited by Campana 2010-12-24 12:21:01)

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Nimda Morris wrote:

I really can't agree with this. The major element in being a competetive industrialist is the efficiency - how much cheaper you can produce your goods for. If you're capable of undercutting pretty much everybody else by just having an alt that can produce things better, I think that's really unfair, particularly when someone who plays an industrialist like you suggest will be seriously hurt by the EP they have to put into robot control and the like.

Conversely, it's unfair for an industrialist to have a combat character because it means he can farm his own kernals and decoders. And it's really unfair for people to have separate mining accounts, because then their industrialist is free to concentrate just on maintaining factory lines etc.

And despite this you still see items being sold on the market.

This is largely because setting up a full industrial alt is a lot of work and not everyone is going to bother. Convenience is the oil that lubricates the market machine.

Edit: Having said that, I read the OP again and my main criticism of your idea is that it would also hurt industrialists by requiring them to grind more than a combat character, who doesn't need a faction bonus for anything at all.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Campana wrote:

Edit: Having said that, I read the OP again and my main criticism of your idea is that it would also hurt industrialists by requiring them to grind more than a combat character, who doesn't need a faction bonus for anything at all.

No, they don't presently need a relationship bonus, but a combat character needs bots and equipment which they have to grind for - PVP doesn't give anywhere near enough by way of rewards for a player to adequately fit out their robots. Unless they're getting given all their equipment, they absolutely have to grind for it.

And, broadly, I agree with your other points in general - but I do think that combat characters and miners, specifically, need to have play time invested in them for them to be effective. (Combat characters need equipment, miners actually need to sit there and pull material out of the ground.) Industrialists are effective without much play time invested in them at all - mainly it's just EP, possibly with a one-time rep grind.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

I agree with the portion about Relations playing a larger role and degrading over time. That's an excellent suggestion!

However, the majority of the OP's trouble is in using multiple accounts.

You're right. With similar time investments, the guy with one more account than you is going to be more effective at something. This happens to be your definition of "Unfair".

There are a lot of definitions of "Unfair". At some point soon in your life you see things from a larger perspective and you start to realize that so many of these "Unfair"nesses contradict each other that you'll wonder why you ever bothered considering them at all.

Ah NLP, I love thee.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

What if my industry account is my main and my pvp account is the alt?  Still unfair?  wink

11 (edited by Lheomuh 2010-12-25 22:26:29)

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

more accounts=more cash=happier devs=better game:D

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Not sure where you think post is going but if someone wants to buy a second or even third account more power to them.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

This topic is full of fail...

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

The bigger problem as i see it is lack of end to end industry mainly materials not being accessible to solo industry players. As i found out tonight Epriton is only available in PvP areas. I am not that interested in PvP and i am not about to run my mining bot into a PvP area to entertain greifers. I do like the game it has a ton of potential but right now $9 is all the Hungarians are going to get out of me if this is indeed true.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Knoblauch wrote:

As i found out tonight Epriton is only available in PvP areas. I am not that interested in PvP and i am not about to run my mining bot into a PvP area to entertain greifers. I do like the game it has a ton of potential but right now $9 is all the Hungarians are going to get out of me if this is indeed true.

There needs to be more stuff available exclusively to the Beta islands. None of this "staying-on-alpha mentality." You want to get rich? Earn it, by competing in all aspects of the game, not just alpha island farming.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Glorion wrote:
Knoblauch wrote:

As i found out tonight Epriton is only available in PvP areas. I am not that interested in PvP and i am not about to run my mining bot into a PvP area to entertain greifers. I do like the game it has a ton of potential but right now $9 is all the Hungarians are going to get out of me if this is indeed true.

There needs to be more stuff available exclusively to the Beta islands. None of this "staying-on-alpha mentality." You want to get rich? Earn it, by competing in all aspects of the game, not just alpha island farming.

Spoken like a true griefer..much like a real economy a game economy fails when you cripple a portion of it by making parts of the game available only to the hardcore 12 hour a day players with half a dozen accounts; some of us play MMO's as a hobby. Its not asking much to be able to play an industrial agent end to end with out the PvP aspects.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

A true griefer?! I have 3 accounts. 2 are termis miners, and one is sitting on building up it's EP. So yeah, watch out, I will GRIEF you bad with my mining lasers!!!

Do you understand economy? Lets start simple. Supply and demand. What happens when noone pvps and you have access to all resources in abundance? You become self-sufficient (easy access to resources + never losing you bots). After a while, EVERYONE becomes self-sufficient, and the economy is dead.

Well done, squire, Well done! Should your ideas be included in the game, we now have a dead economy.

The game is designed for player interaction. Hell, the damn genre of the game is based around player interaction. You are so naive when you say "making parts of the game available only to the hardcore 12 hour a day players with half a dozen accounts; some of us play MMO's as a hobby." Join a corp of like-minded people. Then your problem is solved. But dont you dare *** that someone who plays this game "casually" and solo, cant compete with those that play "12 hours a day" and in a corp.

TL:DR - Dont be dumb and naive.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

This is a troll, right?

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Provos wrote:

This is a troll, right?

If it were posted by Siddy perhaps. But I think this person is actually serious. roll

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20 (edited by tRens 2011-01-01 00:51:50)

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

I think your problem is not with the game or that you won't purchase a second account.

You're mad at the people that are using the market more efficiently. It is the potential ability of someone else that scares you, life isn't fair.. There is someone better than you at everything, always.

Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration – that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves.

Here's Tom with the weather.

This thread is ridiculous... 

This is just me, but I think it's really unfair that a player can make a new account for an industry alt, skill it up in only one very focused way, and then be highly competitive as an industrial manufacturer - they're not really playing with the toon at all! They're just using it as a convenient skill-dump that gets pulled out every so often.

I think people who actually play their characters on the Beta Island should have an advantage over someone that never plays the game, uhh, leaves Alpha Islands.

I believe it would be appropriate to make Alpha Lifers enjoy degraded drops, less kernels, so they cannot seriously compete via huge incomes, L1 kernels, and baby robots kills, moar L1 kernels.

As it stands Beta Islanders are outmatched by their squandering counterparts, Alpha lifers,  whom make more money from loot, market, and everything else without a possibility of  putting anything on the line. 

So that means without purchasing another account I cannot compete with these inborn Alpha lifers.

I enjoyed this exercise.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Most of you are being overly harsh on the OP.  I'll bet many of you have ranted about why you don't play those "free-to-play" games with cash shops because they let people "pay-to-win".  In Perpetuum you can also pay to win.  You pay by having multiple accounts.

Having said that ... I really don't see any problem here.  But then I don't play mmorpgs to "win". 

Personally, I have only one account and I'm happy with that.  I'm an industrialist and don't feel like I'm losing to anyone.  If I wanted to stay on alpha islands I could still play an end-to-end industrialist by building light bots and other things that don't require epriton.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

ah, come on.

those on the alpha island can make quick money, but they can't get their hands on medium equipment if you don't sell it to them -> and thats where you get your NIC.

beta island production should be much more profitable with all those rank3 facilities and the very rich ore deposits.

after the devs have added the next equipment level (heavy weapons, destroyer mechs) the alpha island capability will be the low end part.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

My reply is just as ridiculous as the OP.

I do like the fact that he mentioned an atrophy of reputation standing over time.

That is a neat idea.

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Just give it time...

like anything, those who specialize excel within their area of focus.  Basically amounts to an EM bot pilot complaining they can't use missiles as well as the missile bot pilot (why does my Kain have missile only slots?)

You could have gone pure miner, or pure refiner, or prototyping, or production... but you can't be GREAT at everything all at once right from the start.  As a balanced industrialist you can do everything mildly well and given time you will max the multiple industrial sub-divisions, in the mean time from one balanced indy to another their is plenty of NIC to be made even if your not Uber at anything in particular yet.

"You're living in a parallel universe." ~Syndic

25 (edited by Other 2011-01-24 19:27:28)

Re: Industry Alts Unfair

Glorion wrote:

A true griefer?! I have 3 accounts. 2 are termis miners, and one is sitting on building up it's EP. So yeah, watch out, I will GRIEF you bad with my mining lasers!!!

Do you understand economy? Lets start simple. Supply and demand. What happens when noone pvps and you have access to all resources in abundance? You become self-sufficient (easy access to resources + never losing you bots). After a while, EVERYONE becomes self-sufficient, and the economy is dead.

Well done, squire, Well done! Should your ideas be included in the game, we now have a dead economy.

The game is designed for player interaction. Hell, the damn genre of the game is based around player interaction. You are so naive when you say "making parts of the game available only to the hardcore 12 hour a day players with half a dozen accounts; some of us play MMO's as a hobby." Join a corp of like-minded people. Then your problem is solved. But dont you dare *** that someone who plays this game "casually" and solo, cant compete with those that play "12 hours a day" and in a corp.

TL:DR - Dont be dumb and naive.

+1

Things have to break and break often for there to be any point to having an industrial toon.  There needs to be a reason for people to risk getting their stuff blown up, whether combat toon or industrial toon.  Otherwise the game becomes nothing but a resource grind.

If I wanted to play Farmville then I would play it and save myself $9.95 a month in the process.