since i love the abstract discussion about it in another game,
i throw it in here -

crime&punishment + karma system
dynamic NPCs filling the world with action, and especially the alpha islands with ICS, TM and Asintec NPCs

perp devs wanted to prevent "station games" at all costs,
all current pvp centric mechanics are the result of suggestions from pro-pvp-gamer for the better of the game.

28

(13 replies, posted in General discussion)

you can donate with booster packs

i could imagine MK2 grophos with lots of tuners+assault nexus can be a usefull farming fit these days, given the alpha strike potential they have now + the locktime bonus

you don't need new graphics engine,
you need the whole game engine ported into a commercial product like Unreal or Unity (the later would be nice)

the current level of detail present ingame, would even allow to have it ported to an in-browswer solution big_smile

Gremrod wrote:

No way to have a single module apply 4 different effects? big_smile

erm, please re-read what zoom wrote, because he said something different.
because im bored:

Zoom wrote he could have the nexus apply 4 different effects, but the hard limit for recieved effects on bots is 3

32

(6 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Line wrote:

So waterguns, right?

Its NERF or nothing!

Jita, Krupp and the account-sharing/theft incident big_smile

to bad i had to use the account reset feature at one time,
or else the first legit pvp kill on the server would show me as a Joke member killing Siddy (M2S)

all killmails of reseted accounts got lost sad

34

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

god thanks 99% of the pvp matches are out in the open,
not around a teleporter or a terminal, so situations where one guy with huge alpha strike, double'RSA and fast-lock nexus supported, is standing there, and random guy is still watching a timer go down until he can be locked,to decide what to do in those 2 seconds he has before the screen turns dark again.


right?:fuuu:

btw, i hope you guys use the time with this balance to get rid of unwanted gamma buildings....

35

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

how do you get down to 1000% damage mod on that gun?
dont have a mesmer, but this will do

here for comparison, the three laser types:
Seth mk2 6-tuner fit

to get close to your "realistic" example, i will shoot npc grunts. with the med HCL laser thate has less the 1900% mod and weith apoc ammo that is similar to udc

i do 600 to 1200(crit) damage per shot from a single laser, means killing armored castels in one or two hits.

36

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Line wrote:

basically, noone gonna deploy an empty seth against your mesmer so you never will see such a one-shot, that's it. theorycrafting and "what-if" stuff doesn't really work.

yes, practically, you will see LWF fitted bots with 30% less hitpoints by default, and ofc, the example was with the combat heavy that has by default the most hitpoints and highest kinetic resists.

meaning: any other non-armor fit is DEAD after one or max two volleys. you could start theocrafting how many hits from a single gun a lwf fitted assault will take:

= max 1

given that there is now a chance that those guns miss, it still takes only a single hit from one of the 6 magnetic guns to explode. if you fit armor plates, you surface size will grow and the chance to get hit with it.
as a result there is no way around stacking uni-hardeners or shields.

and that because the example was using UDC (Universal Death Charge?) slugs that simply deal all damage types...

well, i would have loved that years ago,
when i actively played, accumulating a few extension points, then raise a some extensions several levels.

or better, i would have loved if they had copied over the interface from perp-planner, with the planning stage, and the spending buttons big_smile

so, regarding the request - i would not want a "max out" button, but having the ability to raise the extension to the level i want, and then an "apply" button.

38

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:
Line wrote:

Just FYI: 1139% DMG isn't "one shot" even for Mesmer. Practice, my friend, practice!

Thing about maths is you are either right or wrong.

Mesmer alpha dmg : 52 x 588% x 6 x 759% = 13924.3104

Am I wrong?

22*265 = 5844 kinetic damage
10*265 = 2650 thermal
10*265 = 2650 seismic
10*265 = 2650 chemo

total 13.816 damage
vs. empty seth mk2 (6800 HP):

5844*0,38 (kinetic resists)= 2.220+
2650*0,62 (thermal resists)= 1643 +
2650*0,79 (seismic resists)= 2098 +
2650*0,68 (chemo resists)= 1802
total: 7763  damage

= theoretical one-shot.
with a single armor plate the SETH would have 9k+ hitpoints but also enough hitsize to have all hits land.
and the mesmer wilk have 1664 accumulator less big_smile

39

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Line wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

well, it may be one-shot killk... if you fit all legslots with stabs to actually have all 6 guns hit, given the dispersion

Seth Mk2 with 6 EM tunings, 6 Gauss and 6 Stabs would be extremelly popular indeed

and extremely vulnerable to L-Demob big_smile

if there wouldn't be those bottlenecks when you travel from one island to the other, or when you undock from a station...

40

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

well, it may be one-shot killk... if you fit all legslots with stabs to actually have all 6 guns hit, given the dispersion

41

(10 replies, posted in Bugs)

Line wrote:

Your one is next to screenshot. Mine is next to EP. So it juss puts this button no matter what type of record in event log is, but works only for screenshots? If so, can you somehow remove it from non-screenshot records because it'svery confusing? Ofc it's never close to top-priority.

he confirmed already that its UNINTENDED to be where it does nothing...

DEV Zoom (post #6) wrote:

but it shouldn't be there if the event is a toast that does nothing when you click on it.

isn't the incrase in mass for the armor plates contra-productive?
i mean, all you want to counter there, is the 30% mass reduction that LWFs provide.

and you want that mostly for those bots that got increased base mass by design (mk2's)

if i remember it correctly, speed formular works like this
(Robot Mass)/[(Robot Mass + Equip Mass)*LWF-factor] * base speed

if the part in the [] Brackets is less then the base robot mass, then the robot will run faster.
by default that means, the robot will always be slower if it fits anything, and because lwf factor will also reduce equipments mass (for whatever reason), it will always run faster with lwf.

would have been better to have the formulare include a laden weight, and lwf only reducing robot mass...
something like (Laden Weight)/[(Robot Mass*lwf-factor)+Equip mass] * base speed.

you could have a default robot fit, with T1 running exactly the base speed, a t2 fit running faster, and a heavier fit slower. the LWF would only allow you to fit 30% more mass without losing speed.

it looks interesting. this means assault bots HAVE to be deployed in pvp situations if you actually want to kill the small stuff running around.
will be interesting to see if a castel mk2 with med accu, shield and lwf can be killed by anything after this.

PvE missions where you will face a mix of mechs and smalls will be VERY interesting for solo player wink

line - in a 1:1 fight, im sure the big bots will still win when they miss half their shots. and playercount will not magically rise in PvP so one can field 100 lights instead one heavy.
edit:
and after all, there are still stabs to fit, and armor plates that increase your hitsize by +1 each,
and neuts that use a completely different attribute to determine how well they hit big_smile

44

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

does it really matter if the efficiency goes below a factor of 1?

Mroq wrote:

To have diminishing returns similar pattern to that of resistances would have to be used, thats alot more computation every time one shoots and would lag the game. Alot less variables (1 variable just to name it) involved in calculating resistance - before it is asked.

actually, i dont know if it would increase server load - after all, you cannot turn those tunings on or off like resist plates (which would be another idea wink )
the server only needs to calculate youre damage mods once you deploy to terrain - or interact with a field terminal.
thats the reason why you need to dock for changes on your extensions (it didn't work right when it was still "allowed")

server load will be reduced allot with the change anyway, because 1s-cycletime MG seth's wont be possible anymore

important question to ZOOM - what are you plans for prototypes, with cycletime bonuses removed ?

btw,
the only "quick and dirty" way to have tunings get diminishing returns, would be to make them not incrase damage by x% but incresing the damage per shot by and absolute
that way, each additional tuning wil increase the overall damage by the same % and not more. due to accumulator still beeing multiplicative, the efficiency would drop the more modules you fit

45

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

logicalNegation wrote:

I agree with inda, and have said this before about the new tuning system.
I don't understand (outside of perhaps implementation issues) that you can't have a diminishing returns system, instead of exponential penalty system.
one is just playing with numbers, the other one requires actual coding and messing with the fundamental combat mechanics. The later usually leads to bugs, the other one only to imbalances

There is no reason to choose to adversely affect the accumulator, vs any other system on the robot.  Maybe they increase srf area, maybe they increase mass, maybe they eat exponentially more cpu or reactor...

So let's get back to WHY the tuning changes in the first place.
My understanding, and please let us know the true intent here Zoom, is that people were fitting all tunings for most every fit.   The diversity of fits for PVE and PVP was limited because the stacking of tunings for dps was so valuable.

The goal here is to limit the ability for players to fit many tunings of the same type. (?) Please confirm.

IF that is true. 
Why not just limit the number of the same type of tunings on a bot?
(like sensor amps, LWF, etc..)

How many? *** if I know... 3? Does that sound good?
No penalties, no weird *** ratios, a clear hierarchy from T1->T4, and max dps is capped and forces people to use empty head slots for other mods.

This way we can control the peak of the exponential curve of these modules, we get around the 'exploit' of using energy transfer to use the x^6 dps potential that some bots will have.  And the raw number ensures that the dps modifier from a bot with more headslots will not exceed that of another bot with fewer available headslots (the reign of the seth mk2 max-tunings is again thwarted.)

Please tell me why this is bad and will destroy the game.

Regardless, you get away from all the fussy balancing, and you can focus on raw dps potentials, and balance that.  Weapon systems are affected evenly (no base-accum to worry about).  Everyone is happy again.

hard caps suck even more. tongue

46

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:

NIC and tokens can be gathered risk free too. Essentially one can produce those by grinding missions.
How can you afk grind cortexes for MK2?
T4 takes either triple or double time to produce than T2 (depending on either buying or producing T1).
Im not saying T4 should always be better than lower tiers as they are now. It shouldn't be negative efficiency.

How do You propose % on different tiers of tunings?

well, that depends on your idea of efficiency. beeing kill targets faster always was more efficient, since you didn'T have to use your accumulator for repairs.

given that repair modules on mechs already startwith 70% efficiency, and the tuning rebalance pushes that further into the negative...
if just jita didn'T propose the size change for injector charges ...

47

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:

...
  If costs are not a factor for PvP then why don't we see only black heavy mechs fitted with all T4+ ?

you can't mass-produce these.
T4 and MK2's cost are in resources you can gather full or semi afk in huge quantities and zero risk.
These days, your corp research allows every agent to instantly craft T4,
EP for mass production (of Ammo) will unlock the necessary extensions to build them efficiently in no time, and steam sales allows for having lots of production alts.

we have seen that three active player can provide the whole server population with T4 equipment, even when it was more populated.

you would see the black heavys with t4+ en masse if you could still exploit the *** out of beacons.


regarding the favor of low-energy weapons -> i already suggested that some weapon tunings should increase DPS not by damage per shot, but by RoF (just make sure the result is the same)

last but not least, its a long term wish that shields are seperated from accumulator, and injector charges put back to their original cargo-SIZE - but that will never happed due to lack of DEV power

48

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

question to zoom:
NPCs will be affected by this too - but how?
their tunings will be T1 across the board?

looking at the repair tuners - will there be any ERP fits usable after that change? will repair modules get a similar treatments regarding their efficiency? (t4 burst repair, bad accumulator, t2 good repair, slower)

question to zoom: could you make different tiers of drainers have different cycletimes? with so much power beeing consumed, i would love to use that drainer slot on the mesmer for something - but a medium drainer with 10 seconds cycletime never worked well when you had killed your target in less then 20 seconds. the gain was same negliable.
have no LoS when that one cycle happened it was even a loss for you.

@mroq - given your last sentence, i take that as "it looks good on paper" ?

49

(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

logicalNegation wrote:

I'd take your argument if they were the same, but they aren't.  The incentive here is to use T2+T3s instead of T4's almost always because the rate-of-increase.

ok, how often do you fit anything but a mk2 heavy mech for combat?

if you fit a kain with two tunings and a sensor amp,
you can fit your T2+T3 for 41% more DPS
you can fit two T4 fore 91% more DPS (at this point four gauss can probably one-shot lwf fitted targets)
you can fit 1 T4 EM, and 1 T4 repair tunigns for 40% more damage and 45% faster repair

your "incentive" is rather counterproductive, when it comes to kill things faster then them killing you.

and the higher production cost of a higher tier module is no balance factor - not for combat, only for your "risk vs. reward" calculation. If the server was brand new, and productioncost of items would actually mean something, it could be considered in "balancing"... but not in the long-term either, since noth enough robots explode with their modules fitted, compared to ho much overproduction you have.

Please,
remove that feature that prevents you from destroying stuff in your cargo when marked as "in combat"
and replace it with this:

purging something from your cargohold drops it into loot container with the same restrictions as one that would have been dropped by a npc that you had flagged -> short time limited access to you and your squad, and after that free access for everyone

if you want to destroy items, you need to wait for it to vanish of its own.

this would have a two positive impacts - you could free your cargo even when in combat with npcs, to pick up the stuff you actually want
and second, you could trade stuff on the field with squadmembers without having to bring a sequer just for field container.