The system right now is broken and stupid. It's nigh on impossible for individuals to get a decent base of research together, and communist corps have to place an enormous amount of trust in single individuals.

It's incredibly bad game design.

I think the first thing to do is make it easier for players to research specific lines, so that they can specialise in certain things, instead of feeling obliged to eat every and any kernal that comes their way.

Arilou wrote:

On the broader topic, I still think the problem is that Nav is either way too cheap or way too powerful. So either the amount of speed increase needs to be reduced so it's good to have (but not essential), or the EP cost should increase so there are plenty of other extensions more worth training before pushing Nav to 10.

This would just cripple new players compared to vets. Speed is always going to be the most powerful attribute.

I actually support removing Nav from the game altogether and making nav 10 the base speed.

I'd like to see speed boost modules that give you a temporary speed boost (on a cool down) that uses accumulator, and is slower/uses more accum when going up slopes but is faster/uses less accumulator when going down slopes. If the engine is capable of calculating this.

Speed should be balanced as a tactical, variable thing.

Agreed! I would like this feature too.

Despite the fact it will open us forever to wonderfully unbiaised polls such as:

Do you agree that the changes to ERP should be reversed?
(A) Yes I agree this is an excellent idea << CHOOSE THIS ONE EVERYBODY!!!
(B) No, I am stupid and want to spoil the game for everyone by voting no. Just in case it wasn't clear, no-one is supposed to vote for this option, k? Don't vote no!
(C) I like pie
(D) I think [insert random Z-list celebrity] looks hot with her clothes off


(304 replies, posted in Balancing)

Syndic wrote:

It seems you fellas over there have had a terminal alergy towards mining.

AgY wrote:

We had enough players on the server they all left for various reasons. The most obvious for a gamer is: its boring.

But why is it boring?

[..] the grinding factor is so high that there is no point in doing it anymore.


More people wont change anything because this game cant keep em.

Seems like your own alliance agrees with me... smile

Any MMO should provide two kinds of play. Exciting random play that gives you a rush, and relaxing but still enjoyable play where you can just log on after a day's work and chill, de-stress and zone out. Ideally the latter should be the method by which you build up to the former, and you need a decent balance of both.

No MMO I have ever played has got this balance right, Perpetuum included. Farming NPCs solo is irritating because it really needs 2 or 3 accounts to be efficient, and you spend all your time micromanaging, but if you're in a group it's a race to click on the landmarks list to try and get a shot in on something before gets alpha'd by your squad-mates - not enjoyable or relaxing. I could go on forever about how mining and harvesting don't work either. All three of these activities cause a gradual build up of irritation, which isn't really offset by the rewards.

Line wrote:

This thread has reached it's limit, and we're talked here about everything already. So let's get back to topic, make some summary and close it.

Topic: This game became full of cheap stuff because of ERP and armor-tunungs nerf, so everyone now will use lights and T1 stuff.

Summary: No it's not, people are still using T4 stuff and that bot they're feel more suitable for the current situation.

Thanks, and have a productive day!

Agreed, /endthread.


(304 replies, posted in Balancing)

Hunter wrote:

By the way, the great alliance of retribution once gave the island the new corporation. Positive effect was not. The Corporation did not develop an joined to Hokko alliance. Also, when them began to kill on the island (because it's PvP island), they began to troll novastrov. It turns out 2 weeks of non-aggression is not enough.

Sorry mate, google translate just isn't working for you.


(304 replies, posted in Balancing)

AgY wrote:

Sorry but thats simpleminded. We had enough players on the server they all left for various reasons. The most obvious for a gamer is: its boring.

But why is it boring?

The recent (balancing) patches, current game mechanics and overall balance.
People lost perspective and the grinding factor is so high that there is no point in doing it anymore.


More people wont change anything because this game cant keep em.

Actually I agree with this, the game is very boring. I don't sympathise with the fuss over the ERP nerf, but the grind has always been the problem and a lot of the mechanics don't really do anything to address that.

I'm staying, though, because I think one day Perpetuum will get there.


(304 replies, posted in Balancing)

Syndic wrote:

Because if only half of those ~20 corps in Wambulance

6 corps. roll

Syndic wrote:

chose an outpost and went for them fighting tooth and nail, it would obviously ruin the PVP even more as the big bad blob attacked them all at the same time with blobby odds...

When Infestation was at its strength, hardly anyone took pvp roams to Hokkagoras. A few corps tried, but no-one really put any effort into it.

It was a bit boring tbh.

Now, you can hardly make the same complaint. Novablob is the strongest alliance on the server purely in terms of fits and numbers (if not actual pvp ability) but you get roamed on a daily basis.

I think Nova should get over yourselves, log back into the game, have a look at the mechanics and come up with new fittings that work for you. Adapt, change, survive. Or go play Rift.

It's not like everything you have done over the last 10 months is a total waste.

Hey, if you all ragequit permamently, can we claim that as a victory over you? Pretty sure you would if the roles were reversed... big_smile


As an aside, I actually think it's kind of a shame that no corps want to move out to beta, there are lots of empty outposts at the moment, but really there is nothing there to attract them except e-peen and epriton, and the latter can be ninja mined of you're organised, whereas not everyone is obsessed by the former. It's that old problem where if you give beta enough advantages, people want to move there, but the more advantages you give it the harder it is for new corps to break in.


(304 replies, posted in Balancing)

Heavy mechs are for intrusion fights i.e. large scale standing battles defending or attacking stationary control points.

They're not for roaming. They're not for hunting down squads of faster, smaller bots.

It has always been the case, since release, that any lone mech or heavy mech caught out in the open by a small roaming gang is dead meat.

Your problem is not that the devs have nerfed your fit, but that no-one on the server is currently doing intrusions, which is what your mech is designed for.


(304 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

m2s is still a factor in game?

I know, right? big_smile

As a nuimquol pilot, I totally demand vibrating blades.

I don't think it's fair that thelodica pilots should get them at all. Mechs that shoot rainbows have no self respect whatsoever and vibrating blades would just be wasted on them.

More seriously, I think the game is not set up right for melee. I mean, I really love melee classes in games, and I can't think of anything more fun than to descend on another robot like a whirlwind of death and rip its head off, but frankly it doesn't fit Perpetuum.

We don't have player collision, the movement in the game just doesn't feel right for kiting round each other at a distance of a few metres, and on top of that there is explosion damage.


(304 replies, posted in Balancing)

I like how everything is always M2S' fault.

Even when it's got nothing to do with us at all.

E.g. the spawn at the end of the EMAC between Matsu Shoto I and II is particularly annoying.

Particularly with the introduction of the Homing Robot Chicken mentioned in the latest dev blog.

WilliamH Bonney wrote:

The new mechanics mean that you need 24/7 online "support" within corporation to defend your outposts.

How many Corps have players in strong numbers (20-30) in every prime time zone?

In that case, the issue is with the proposed Intrusion mechanics, and that's what we should be arguing to change if we want to support the ability of single corps/small entities to hold outposts.

You're saying that the main problem will be having enough people to man the SAPs 24/7. Does this mean alliances can attack SAPs also, as an alliance? If so, your solution will provide considerably more benefit for large alliances than it will for single corps/small alliances, because they will always have many more members to attack other outposts.

Even if this feature is defensive only, it will make it so that the benefit increases proportionally with the size of your alliance.

So while the addition of an alliance feature would be fine, I don't support alliance held outposts.

I'm not against some kind of alliance mechanism in game. Alliances have been in the game since the beginning, so having an in-game mechanic for it probably won't make much difference, aside from making it all easier to track.

I think the voting thing is fine so long as it's not required when setting an alliance up, but you could have the option to turn it on or off. Most of this stuff can be done on TS anyway, and I rather like the emergent nature of it, and the way current alliance structures are not dictated by in game alliance features.

What I would rather see first are things like contracts, escrow, shares, dividends, player stores, in-game advertisments, service offerings and so on before an alliance feature. Things that would encourage player interaction outside of corps or alliances, to counter the effect of the interal corp markets have had on the economy, as well as the economic lure that being part of an alliance has for a small corp.

However, I am against having allies able to take SAPs on behalf of another corp in their alliance. This will PROMOTE corps merging into large entities, and thus promote blob warfare. This is the opposite of everything the devs have shown they want for the game, and will not in any way help small corps. All it will do is encourage small corps to sell themselves as pets to large alliances.

(Off topic - the best thing the devs could do to discourage large alliances from forming would be to split the game world up into smaller islands with one outpost per island. I would like to see this done for new beta islands.)



(86 replies, posted in General discussion)

I think treating this as a punishable exploit or criticising others for doing so is pointless, and a bad way of handling exploits of this nature.

It creates far too much work for the devs to police, and it's not an exploit you have to go out of your way to create and abuse. All you do is kill an observer...which then respawns.

I couldn't be bothered with farming them myself, but I don't see why anyone shouldn't.

If you want to see modules attached to bots on the terrain, please start a separate thread for that.

I agree with Norrdec that EM/Gauss and other different weapons types e.g. HCL/LCL, machine guns/autocannon could be displayed as well as demobs. I think different shades (lighter for long range, darker for short range) would be easiest to implement.

Just give them a different skin where the S demob is dark orange and the L demob is light orange.

Please smile


(50 replies, posted in General discussion)

I would like to see outposts have some meaning

Rather than docking rights, I would like to see the facility cost altered according to relations, plus a weekly rent required for being able to access corporate hangars, and perhaps a fee for docking rights too. Some ideas...

Facility fees

If a corporation owns an outpost they can opt to provide discounts or an additional premium to use the facilities. Each discount is optional and selected by the owning corp individually. The Syndicate would get the usual 50% of the normal price, and the discount/premium is taken from/added to the owning corp's share.

Green corps - Up to 50% discount on total facility fees
Blue corps - Up to 25% discount on total facility fees
Neutral corps - no discount or premium can be set
Yellow corps - Up to 25% premium on total facility fees
Red corps - Up to 50% premium on total facility fees

Corp storage rent

This is not the fee for creating corp storage, but an ongoing maintenance fee.

This is an option that could be set by the owning corp, but with the option to reduce the rent to 0%, 25%, 50% or 100% for each colour of standing. Thus they could choose just to give free storage to green and blue corps, or free storage to all corps regardless of colour, or just set a fee for yellow and red corps.

Rates (example amounts only):
Level 1 - 500k NIC per week
Level 2 - 1m NIC per week
Level 3 - 5m NIC per week
Level 4 - 10m NIC per week

The owning corp would receive 100% of the revenue from corp storage rent.

If a corp already owns hangars in an outpost controlled by an enemy, they can choose to pay the fee, and thus have access to those hangars for 1 week after the fee is paid. If they don't pay, they can't access the hangars.

Docking rights

A corp can choose to set docking rights exactly the same way as it would for corp hangar access.

Rates (example numbers only):
<10 agents in corp - 500k NIC per week
10-50 agents in corp - 1m NIC per week
50-100 agents in corp - 5m NIC per week
100+ agents in corp - 10m NIC per week

The fee is the same regardless of how many agents actually dock up or use the outpost. Again, a corp would choose to set this as an option for their outpost, and then have the option to choose a 100%, 50%, 25% or 0% discount for each colour of standing.

The owning corp would receive 100% of the revenue from docking rights.

The amounts are just examples, I don't know what would really work, but this gives a way to penalise corps who lose intrusions, and an element of risk to losing them beyond e-peen, but at the same time doesnt cripple the game for new corps trying to move from alpha to beta.

Yeah I think so, I remember checking a while back when I first wondered why none were on Hokk. There is at least one on Dom, that I know of, at one of the TPs.

There are clearly things that look like there ought to be highways.

Please enable them?

Grophos can also use range extenders and don't need cap injectors. Problem not solved?

I would like to see thelodica dps mechs (not just the ewar) useful in some kind of pvp at least.

Edit: some people replied later re the gropho, so just to clarify - I don't care what happens to the gropho, what I want to see is the seth made useful.

Agree with everything so far.

Squads need more hierarchies as well. There should be sub squads within squads that can share NEXUSes and exclude those of other squads.


(28 replies, posted in General discussion)

Newbie explanation inc, Nid...

Weak timezones are supposed to be covered by protection tokens. You get 1 protection token when you take over an outpost, and 1/3rd of a protection token for every successful defense of your outpost. If someone signs up for an intrusion on the outpost, you can protect it by using up 1 token. The deadline for this is 8hrs before the intrusion goes live. People need to sign up to an intrusion over 12 hrs before it goes live.

Benefits of outposts. If you own an outpost you get a 50% NIC reduction on the use of facilities inside. Facilities that cost NIC are things like repairing items, reverse engineering items and producing items. If you own an outpost, and someone in another corp uses the facilities, they pay the full price for using the facilities and your corp wallet gets 50% of that revenue. In an outpost that's regularly used it amounts to a few million a week. It's not much.

Crepitus, what does insurance fraud have to do with this...?

I fail to see the logic ^^