I think OP misses the point.. Lithus is a godsend to miners/industrials that actually haul real stuff between the T2/3 refineries/factories/markets... of course 3 subs all with indy robot control 4 would work better, but what a waste of 2 subs... then again if you throw enough money at a problem it usually goes away right???

52

(4 replies, posted in Services and Discussion)

Dutch auctions could fail for all the same reasons that you alluded to in the IRS investment thread. (just change the names)

Despite your suggestions elsewhere that IRS might be a small alt corp we are not.  In terms of size IRS is currently 2nd tier behind AXE, M2S and ECORP and we are growing.
Evidence - http://www.perpetuum-online.com/~gargaj/

Our internal structure is capitalist in nature and we ARE set up to accept public investments and grow them.  Link to a horribly derailed investment thread.
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … st-in-irs/

In general I'm opposed to secured loans.  Where a liquid market exists the borrower is better served by selling and buying back what would be the collateral through the market. In the absence of liquid markets the lender takes on the liquidation risk warranting a prohibitive cost of borrowing.

The borrower receives less than value, if not the lender losses the time value of the loan in the event of default.  If selling into the market, instead the "borrower" receives full market value and if they have the patience to place orders may profit on the spread.

Using 3rd star light robot kernels as a current example.
infinite buy - 10800
best bid   -   12000
best ask  -   14000

So assuming 10 kernels with an infinite buy value of 108,000 and a discount rate of 10% over a fixed period the Present Value (most I could borrow) is ~98,182.

Or the same 10 kernels could immediately be sold into the market (at 5% tax rate) for 120,000*.95 = 114000, that is 16.1% above my borrowing power. (16.1% less time spent kernel farming)

Buying back the kernels at market would result in a net borrowing cost of 22.8%. However, assuming I didn't need those kernels right now, I could split the bid/ask with a buy order @ 13000 per kernel with a resulting cost of borrowing of 14%.  Yes 14% is higher then 10% but I have absolutely NO time constraints on when or even if I must repay the loan to avoid default (losing all of my kernels at a sub-market value) plus the time time that I didn't spend farming kernels to secure my loan has value that IMO exceeds the price of a kernel.

Finally assume IMO the most likely scenario, I place a sell order and cost average out at 13,500 over the course of a day (while I'm farming more kernels, BS'ing, PVP'ing, enjoying my time, whatever). I put 128,250 in my pocket and at the end of the period cost average back in at 12,500/per=125,000 and rather than paying interest I book a gain of 2.6%

Anyway, I may be biased but I just don't like secured loans unless the borrower retains use of the collateral as in a mortgage or lease, but those rely on legal ownership structures that don't exist here so, we're back to issues of trust

53

(42 replies, posted in Services and Discussion)

CoyoteTheClever wrote:

Wait, I still don't see where M2S hurting your feelings comes into play in that huge wall of text.

And M2S is equal opportunity in their trolling. They even troll each other from time to time. If you don't want to get trolled, don't get them opportunities wink

Two ways -
1) I allowed myself to become aggravated prior to being contacted by Artem, which most likely impacted my willingness to be helpful
2) It caste a shadow of doubt upon Artem's motivations for contacting me, was he being sincere or just carrying the forum trolling into the game.

I'm not opposed to the occasional troll post, but the constant and unmoderated trolling of one particular clic has become an assault on the forums and community.  This thread is just one of many that has been trolled so far off topic that it should be closed/deleted and the original OP moved. 

Follow the links above, the fact that one particular clic has proudly built a culture based in part on disruptive griefing has been noted not just by myself but has a thread dedicated to it. The ban stick has been threatened by Dev Zoom but I'm doubtful that it will be used.  I haven't seen this much concentrated trolling since DFO (DarkFail Online). These forums need more active moderation for a community to form, one that attracts subs rather than chases them away IMO.

Anyway, I like many others will probably confine myself to corp/alliance chat in the end.
Trolls win. I lose, community losses, Avatar Creations losses

54

(42 replies, posted in Services and Discussion)

Artem Blue wrote:

In the spirit of due diligence, I looked up all the referenced characters on this forum and in-game, and spoke to Ember a bit in-game.

......

5. Ember was not able to cut and paste the corp bulletin announcing this internal investment possibility from the corp bulletin when I asked. Being able to do something like that promptly when surprised is something that an honest individual could do, but a dishonest individual could not (hard to make up such an elaborate deceptive document fast enough) - it would be strong evidence of honesty. The fact that Ember couldn't is therefore weak evidence against honesty; however, there are good alternative explanations, like that there might be sensitive information in that post, or that Ember was suspicious that I might be up to some espionage goal.

..........

Risks I can see:
1. It's a remote possibility that the entire IRS corp could be one person or a small number of tightly-knit people.
2. It's a possibility that Euphoric / Doctor Strangelove has been running a Ponzi / pyramid scheme inside his own corp and now wants to expand beyond it.
3. It's a possibility (from your perspective) that I'm the same person, or closely associated with, Euphoric / Doctor Strangelove / IRS and am working to boost your confidence and increase the yield of the scam.

This is my first time reading the thread since my conversation with Artem and just thought I might clarify a few points, but first let me say that I appreciate the time and effort that Artem has put into attempting to Audit/Investigate what I believe is Perpetuum's first investment offering.  I full well understand the potential pitfalls of investing in unregulated unaudited vehicles let alone anything secured by nothing more than an internet reputation.  There are risks involved, no one has implied otherwise, and I think Euphoric and Artem have disclosed and hashed out most of the obvious ones.

When Artem PM'd me I was still aggrivated by what I judge to be relentless forum trolling by M2S.

- "Equal opportunity forum troll" from Neoxx's signature (since changed)

Another M2S member proudly identifying themselves as a troll
- http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … rn/page/3/

Speaks for itself... Dev Zoom threatens banning... trolling continues elsewhere
- http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -trolling/

Other forum users commenting on M2S trolling
- http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -subforum/

After opening the conversation by asking for a list of alts within the corp Artem identified himself as a potential investor and I made it immediately clear that as an IRS member my word held little weight in the matter.   I further added that IMO the investment is legitimate and that if it's not the entire corp is "screwed". 

I further disclosed that I am not invested, many members are, but that similiar investments had been available since I joined the corp and that I had invested in earlier rounds. As Euphoric disclosed their are currently more profitable oppotunities for industrial characters that have not yet reached a point of diminishing returns.

Artem continuued to ask sensative questions about the number of corp members online, identities of officers, etc.  My answers were admitably stand offish.  When asked to cut and paste to chatbox, the wall of text that is the corps investment thread I assumed that Artem wanted more information and I began to recap the investment features, as well as describe my impression of the IRS business model, it's sustainability and the capitolistic nature of the corps inner workings.  Artem did not broach the subject of cutting and pasting from the corp bulletin a second time, thus indicating that his questions had been answered. As I mentioned above their are similiar investments avaiblable within the corp, perhaps I should have used and stressed the word IDENTICAL so as not to cast a shadow upon my character.

In truth Artem first set the stage for my suspicions of fowl play by initiating the conversation with questions about alts within the corp.  Then Artem invented an elaborate "test" of my honesty.  Selectively interpreted the results as indicative of my character. Then posted the interpretation miss-using words like "able" and "couldn't" as supposed evidence.  Their are many fallacies in Artems logic the most prominent of which is called denying the anticedent. The fact that God has not revealed himself through hard evidence proves nothing about his existence one way or the other despite whatever you may or may not want to believe.  Not cutting and pasting internal information upon request bears no reflection upon my honesty or this invesment.... a lack of evidence is only evidence in your imagintaion.

As I said I appreciate Artem's efforts in attempting to investigate/audit this investment opportunity, an impossible task at best.  He performed a fair amount of research, tried to present a balanced opinion and multiple interpretations.  But to sum it up, unknown people on the internet want to take your pretend money.  It's Risky. However, the risk is partially mitigated by the virtual nature of the pretend money and a low minimum investment.  For what it's worth (not much), I fully believe this opportunity to be legitimate and would be more concerned with rate risk.  However, if your a combat only player with no sources of passive income this might be a good thing for you. Or better yet, if your combat oriented we're recruting, join our corp "IRS" and invest from within.

55

(42 replies, posted in Services and Discussion)

Draz wrote:

Full disclosure:

Euphoric is a Goon. Not one of the Goons who just ran a recruitment scam for 500k and some junk out of AXE's storage, though. But a Goon, nonetheless. By an odd coincidence, Doctor Strangelove is also the character chosen by The Mittani as a forum avatar on the Goonfleet forums. Totally unrelated, of course.

Just thought everyone who might be seriously considering giving their NIC away should know exactly who they were dealing with.

Full disclosure:

At least link the "recruitment scam" that as you claim was NOT performed by Strangelove, or anyone in IRS for that matter.  Heavy on insinuation, but really just weak when you look at the facts.

More full disclosure when one of your officer's comes to me with an offer to steal from their own corp in return for membership... I will consider them morally bankrupt and fully deserving of whatever backstabbing we BOTH can offer them in return.

56

(42 replies, posted in Services and Discussion)

Doesn't matter what forum topic I enter, or what the time is... M2S trolls hard around the clock

+1 for anything that discourages gate camping.

drop ships could work...

Something like corp A leases a drop ship for 30 minutes to ferry them to the beta island of their choice, it randomly deposits them in small groups around the island (turbulence or whatever).  Corp members of outpost holders receive global notice that a drop ship is approaching XXXX.  The outpost holders know their are infiltrators on the island, but don't know where.  Infiltrators need to reassemble and head make for their rally points... let the fun begin.

@Baldy - buy/sell limit orders are a great idea

It would be REALLY helpful to be able to see some kind of volume indicator on the graph (hourly, daily, rolling/moving average whatever you think is appropriate depending on how much transparency you want to provide but seriously any indication would help)

and what is going on with the Y-Axis? A seemingly random high point with 10 subdivisions? can we settle for powers of 10 (10, 100, 1000....) and keep the 10 subdivisions. 

I can understand arguments both for and against transparency but I'd like a little more historical info.

59

(18 replies, posted in Open discussion)

Woot!!! No horns? are you kidding me?

I need a horn module so that when I'm rollin by my corpies in the Sequer with the seat real low I can be all meep meep whats up!!! Also any horn that plays music is a HUGE bonus, you know if people wanna upgrade T2-5.

Also if my bots could make ridiculously obnoxious beeping noises while I back up, that would help.

Finally, OMGWTF why is this not already in game, BUMPER STICKERS!!!!

catchy phrases for the mouse over what?!? Here are just a few samples...

"My Other Ride is an Arbey"

"Arkhe On Board"

"I Stop for HOT Bots"

really the possibilities are endlesssss, so get at me and we can make this happen ASAP.

leave your own bumper sticker suggestions below.