(89 replies, posted in General discussion)


Creative solution, but too much of an easy button for people parking arke scout alts on the TP's while they go semi-AFK, and/or tab over to play on a second account.  Not something I'd like to see encouraged.

IMO, scouting gates should either require active monitoring (someone sitting there watching their screen) as the price of safety that advanced warning of attack gives OR if the goal is to enable corps to heighten island security... then eliminating boring mundane tasks and go to the other end of the spectrum.  Completely automate gate watching by allowing corps that own an outpost to set up gate activity messages to the corp chat window, link it to the standings settings.

I will agree that the current situation seems half pregnant.  A loud thundering boom is an audio warning that someone just ported in but your punished for it by having to listen to all the horrible electric static sound that the gate makes.


(106 replies, posted in Balancing)

No troll, though I expected the responses.

First I think we're all agreed in wanting to see more beta activity.  To that end consider BOTH the carrot and the stick.  Reducing the problem to one of basic material/nic incentives is an oversimplification that fails to acknowledge structural problems. Adding MOAR nic to Syndic's list of Epi, kernals, and refining is NOT the silver bullet!

Consider Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. It's a game so at the lowest levels assume that every player needs abundant access to the basics necessary to have fun (assault class bot, T1 guns, ammo, insurance money, etc..).  Limiting access to anything a new player might need to build/buy and gear a half decent bot results in a "why bother, I already have a job" mindset for the casual player.

Nerfing alpha island resources, or marginalizing their price/availability through beta based inflation is a mistake, especially at a time when the in game market is showing signs of confidence, liquidity and recovery.  Syndic's signature reads "ECORP, N-A, IRS, JOKE, M2S"... good for lulz, but I can tell you as an insider that IRS was 99% carebear and nothing PvP related could have driven them to collapse, N-A was the same to a lesser degree (80% of their actives literally left to go play minecraft).  What killed those very large player bases was a drastic mineral nerf, suspension of the insurance driving demand and the resulting collapse of the market.  Everyone likes to think of themselves as a hunter but communities are built on the backs of farmers. Be careful and delicate when tinkering with the in game economy, it's not the fix all for your PvP woes!

The second tier of Maslow's hierarchy is security.  Defending a base is a giant pain, hardly worth the effort , I agree.  But I don't agree that you need more rewards, just more security. First the intrusion system needs some reworking, someone at incoming transmission #7 suggested adding a bidding system to move the intrusion clock.  It also serves as a high level nic sink which in turn incentivizes market activity. I like it!

The other half of fostering security and encouraging beta island newcomers involves breaking up power blocs... For many the answer to join or die is D. None of the Above.  Mega-alliances built on politics and propaganda are game breaking, hence my suggestions.

1. Drop all alliances and NAP's
2. Stop recruiting, promote enemy corps you respect
3. Take chances, fighting CIR is usually lame due to their refusal to engage without overwhelming force.  A happy medium lives in between the dock up and the blob.

Finally... the devs have been working on a whole EC system that will magnify and add to the benefits of outpost ownership, hopefully without disrupting the entry level economy.  My only hope is that the "outpost-class version of NUXUS modules" provide the added security without overly encouraging more base hugging.


(58 replies, posted in Balancing)

Lemon wrote:
Monster wrote:

Dear devs,
It is the consensus that numq , kains in particular, are OP. Stop nerfing every team but them.

Bad necro is bad

agreed, new changes offer food for thought, but start a new thread based on current state of game.

P.S. - I disagree, though think I see where the devs are going with the implimented changes and I like it.


(106 replies, posted in Balancing)

Not enough targets? Probably time to expand the alliance again.

1. Drop all alliances and NAP's
2. Stop recruiting, promote enemy corps you respect
3. Take chances, fighting CIR is usually lame due to their refusal to engage without overwhelming force.  A happy medium lives in between the dock up and the blob.

There is absolutely no good reason to further devalue nic.  If anything there are not enough nic sinks at the high end.  I agree that the economy (not just the market but the broad based economy) needs more scarcity to drive competition.  The answer needs to be scalable to the player population and phased in slowly to avoid shocking the markets.  ROFL Stomping the market now that it's starting to show some signs of life to compensate for your habit of repeatedly allying half the server is a bad idea.

Finally... I told you so tongue

Okay... while I agree with the above, I'll get back on topic, playing MMO's solo works in some games but is generally a bad idea in any kind of sandbox.  There are many well established corps that will take on new players from day one so I don't think you'll have any trouble there.  Most established corps (62nd, RG, M2S, CIR, etc) still recruit and train new members (the game is still young in many respects), or you might look at some of the younger corps that will have more people closer to your own level of progression, like FOOM and ATG.

I'm wondering, how quick can I take part in PvP if I start fresh? Is there some builds that are viable quicker? Thinking of group PvP. Also, are there many active PvP groups? So that there is combat to take part in?

Short answers: very quickly, yes and yes.

I might wait until the end of the first week to jump into PvP, though you could probably jump in sooner... While some people might min/max into mechs (probably under a month of EP).  The quickest way to get into PvP is to go small and fast, hunt in groups and use detectors this way you control the terms of engagement.  As part of a collective hunting group the only skill you will NEED is NAV 10.  After that decisions can get more complex and will be role dependent, talk to whatever corp you have decided to join.


(58 replies, posted in Balancing)

I'll agree that Thelo are not as mobile, but this is once again an argument that ignores the strengths.  The natural bonus to resists are huge and range is ans extremely useful tool even if it's not always available due to LOS...

I've been having a similar problem with Nuimqol bots (which I've always piloted).  It really bothers me that even after bonuses to rep amount... Thelo bots make better active tanks due to the natural resist bonuses that they start with... truth is without a heavy speed advantage, Kain survivability drops to zero since they need to get in close to fire, before running away... I personally think the poor range and terrible defense makes the slower Mesmer useless, and I've yet to actually see a single one in PvP.  On the other hand the Seth might be slow as all heck but in a defensive role can tank like nobodies business and presumably has the range advantage since the defenders set themselves up on the high ground in advance.

So where you expect the Thelo to be a master of range... it's actually best played as a tank (range is just an occasional side bonus, VERY handy with the ewar you decide to ignore)

Where I expected Nuim to be tanks... they're actually best played as hit and run raiders (bonus to rep amt is a side bonus that lets me get back into the action sooner)

Any adjustments to speed... other bots up or Kains down will COMPLETELY cripple us, since after getting into close range to fire, our ONLY viable defense is to run back out of range to rep up before attacking again.... As for Mesmers, if you know any viable roles for them let me know.


(11 replies, posted in Q & A)

Annihilator wrote:

ok, lets see -


It was late, I was frustrated, should have seen it myself. Nice work Anni!
It's still a struggle to reconcile the skill descriptions against the results.  Anywho, I think the devs have done a phenomenal job getting things to balance well but I hate wrestling with black boxes constantly as I try to plan my development (something I should have done from the outset but plan to get right before I take my respec).  One of the M2S guys put together a bot-fitting spreadsheet a  while back, maybe the community can create a similar webapp. A lot of work I suppose, and out of my skill set, though I could probably do something simple in VB.net. Maybe this summer.


(11 replies, posted in Q & A)

Just a quick thought, when masking/detection was released I hear it was OP and then nerfed...
Maybe it was supposed to be,
Base * (1 + 5% *skill)

and somehow an extra +5% * Skill   got tagged on?


(11 replies, posted in Q & A)

Need to change the skill descriptions (I imagine the mechanics will RTS for balancing reasons)

Never really looked too hard at the numbers before, but I'm trying to plan a build now and the numbers are driving me nuts...

Armour repair cycle time is 5% in the description...So at lvl 10 robotics....
(Base Time) * 1.05^10 = Result
Perpetuum seems to use the following...
(Base Time) * 1 / (1 + 5% * (Skill)) = Result

So... at level 10, according to the description you might expect to get 59.9% of the base time when what you actually get is 66.7%

While the formula has 5% buried inside it, you are not getting 5% like the description suggests... I can somewhat understand the difference since the two formulas are similar and the form Perpetuum uses can be simplified to... (20*Base) / (20 + Skill) = result

Maybe their approximation saves clock cycles and speeds up the game somehow, but your still losing almost 7% by level 10.

Heres more weirdness... Masking/Detection in the help file is described as...
(1000 / Enemy Masking) * (Your Detection) = Range
I haven't tested it in the field but the formula is a bit strange, why wouldn't you separate the constant? I think people would better understand the help file if it read...
(Your Detection / Enemy Masking) * 1000 = Range

When you actually equip the module things are wonky...
Description says 2%, With level 5 skill and a T3 detector (base modification is 35) I get a final modification of 48.5? Still need to test this one to figure it out but it's not anything obvious....
NOT  Base * (1 + 2% * skill) = 38.5
NOT Base% + 2% * skill = 45

Best guess at a working formula that still needs to be tested is...
Detection Modifier = Base * (1 + 2% * Skill) + 2% * Skill

If that really is it, all I can say is what in damnation is that monster of a mess and HOW does it even remotely relate to the skill description of a 2% increase? As well as, umm thanks for the extra detection range... I might have trained it sooner if I'd known what it actually does.

Anyway, love the game and appreciate all of the devs work, I think they do a great job, which includes the difficult task of balancing factions.  Thank you, but could you please drop more hints about what the skills are Really doing before I go mad trying predict how to respec.

hey TBA, 22:00 server is 4pm EST... so it's good for US players that aren't stuck at work/school/etc


(8 replies, posted in Resolved bugs and features)

Comes in waves at night, no lag spikes... everything is running smooth.

Then everyone else stops (my client stops getting location info?)
Few seconds later my client DC's
Then on reconnect attempts...
  'Fatal exception - Server not responding'
  Client crash
Repeated timeouts etc...
More fatal exception client crashes.. over and over.

This all happens while my second client is up and running without any problems whatsoever.  So I assume I've still got a good connection to the server.  I've done traceroutes and they're not pretty but no worse then they were before when we had twice the population we have are now.

The problem started the night before the patch came out. Were changes made to the data server?  Patch notes alluded to an exploit fix without saying what it was... could some new system be flagging me accidentally and then locking me out of the data server for 1-2 minutes? Anyone else notice something sililiar?

What kain magic?

If you let a glass speed cannon susceptible to demob close to within 50m of you, it's not magic that killed you.   

They're a little bit faster so people like to bring them on speed roams... It is completely offset and more by the limitations of their racial weapons... why else would so many people give up the bot bonus to EM to strapping lasers and autocannons onto blue bots? It seems like a fail fit to me... but still kind of illustrates the limitations of EM in general.

I have to disagree with you Mara..

My T1 fit kain with a T4 frame goes 79kph... So assume I could get that to low 80's with T2 gear.  I agree this is a big advantage when considered by itself, but isolating a single advantage to the exclusion of all other counter-advantages and disadvantages is nonsense.

When we go out in a mixed group I put a range extender on... after that I need TWO sensor amps to boost my locking range to match and even then I'm only effective out to around 425m (375 optimal + .5 * 100 falloff).  I know I could optimize my skills better and run tech gear to compensate but from a practical standpoint 425-450m is max range, so I'm still standing in front of everyone else.

Alternatively I could go with less range but that would put me way in front of the rest of the pack, a prime target, and dangerously close to demob range.

While standing at the front of the pack, I still need to maintain LOS unlike the greens and I have no bonus to resists like the yellows. The defensive bonus to active armour tanking is in NO way viable (we'll see what the new armour plates bring).  Finally, the blue's DPS advantage is slight when compared to lasers at any kind of range. We are as Syndic says glass cannons.

Without a speed advantage, allowing you to dash in and then retreat, the Kain is SERIOUSLY gimped. That is the day to day reality of a kain pilot.

Your argument against speed really only holds water in the very specific and isolated scenario that you allude to.  A pack of speed fit, DPS kains on a cavalry charge...

It is a very specialized blitz offensive tactic, that is extremely effective against an unsuspecting target but that may be easily countered in several ways...

Without going into too much detail,
- Plate up and demob
- Use your range and terrain
- Don't engage when unprepared
- Focus fire (they're very squishy)


Edit: Since the assaults are getting some love, it's a good time to remember that after you figure in the extra turret slot 5v4, the dispersion modifier to DPS and the horrible range of EM... assault bots hit about as hard as kains at any kind of range... So, what advantage is the more expensive, more EP intensive kain left with when you take the speed advantage away?

Kernel drop rate might be down, but plasma should be putting plenty of nic in your wallet... If you need kernels try using some of that plasma money to put up some reasonable buy orders on the public markets, problem solved.

P.S. - If your buy orders are not getting filled... The market has deemed them to be 'not reasonable'.

I think you might also be overlooking the level of unpredictability that roaming spawns add.  To my shame I was semi-afk mining, and making a sandwich yesterday when a grand observer unexpectedly spawned.  A few days before that I was doing some solo PvE on a beta island when a golden hauler started flanking me, it breaks up the monotony. They might seem an inconvenience or even a tragedy but it's nice that the game can offer the occasional surprise outside of PvP.

It's all good... Dare I say it... I really appreciate the Dev's here, they're level of community involvement and the quality of the releases and updates.  I don't have to like every change to appreciate that most things here just work... something you cannot take for granted in MMO's these days... if it takes a few days or weeks longer than expected, so be it... My expectations have been well met to date though I do have a lofty outlook for the future.

As for the blog updates... yes, MOAR cookies please.


(43 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

One reset 'token' per year on the account anniversary IMO...

like Jelan I'm against anything that allows FOTM, but I've made some stupid errors along the way and have even changed directions a few times.  I'd like to unwaste some of that EP, but I still like to experiment and try new builds gear etc...

I also understand where Kalsius is coming from, as he has taken the time and horded EP for something? I'm not sure either of us know what yet... but some uber skill will come out and he'll jump to level 10 while we're still working on lvl5... Maybe Artillary?  Still if a reset were offered very infrequently.. it could work.

It's a game and a time will come when your ready to try something different but not willing to open a new toon, just to let them ferment for 6mo so you can try XYZ...

Alexadar was right... the game is too young and small mistakes become smaller over time... but I'd like to see some kind of reset eventually maybe when the super-duper-ultra-tank-mechs come out wink

Nothing broken but I think it would be easier for people to understand if you rearranged the terms a little bit.  It currently just feels weird every time I look at it.

Help file currently describes effective detection range as:
(1000 / You Enemy's Masking Value) * Your Detection Value

Would probably look better if you isolate the constant and rewrite as:
( Your Detection Value / Your Enemy's Masking Value ) * 1000

Silly little things I know, just thought I'd throw it out there.


(32 replies, posted in General discussion)

Once again, amazing but damn you for holding out a taste, whetting my appetite and then cruelly making me wait indefinitely for more.  I'd buy the book, fanfic pdf... whatever, just give me a few hundred pages at a time smile

Hourglass wrote:

This game is without a doubt an EVE copy.  A single persistent server, no instances, skill based, the vast majority of skills have an exact EVE equivalent, economy is player driven, mechs are fitted with modules, accumulator = capacitor, CPU, Powergrid, Armor shields, mechs have weapon and other bonus's, weapon systems are lifted completely from EVE.... the comparisons are nearly endless.  Anyone who says this isn't a copy of EVE either hasn't played EVE or is a slobbering fanboi trying to distance this game from one they don't care for.

[praise and positive outlook edited out]

The EVE comparisons are wearing me out.  I get that the interface is similar, but the laundry list of comparisons here and elsewhere are not unique to EVE/PO.  EVE wasn't the first and PO won't be the last, and once you pile in the handful of other games like SWG what your looking at is a genre, not a copy.

WASD control, LOS, varying terrain maps, lack of transversal velocity, faster pace of combat... I would also argue that missions in EVE were as close to instances as you could get without leaving the main server pop... No war decs, No autopilotm I could go on but why bother.  Once a week there is a noob screaming in help chat because they can't find an EFT and can't wrap their brains around the idea that what worked in EVE may not apply here because the mechanics and play styles are different.

This is not EVE... same feel, same genre, different game... Approach it with an open mind rather creating expectations around the things your familiar with... If you can't do that then surprise!!! EVE is better at being EVE than PO, but PO makes a better PO then EVE ever will herp derp.

P.S. - Most fantasy MMO's are not WOW clones either, but the convo always pops up anyway

Funds returned with interest, TY Lethal

Tailn wrote:
Dromsex wrote:

Defending or sieging clearly favors mechs/heavies becasue there is a static goal and if the attackers flee the defence or attack was successful.

Does this combat favour mechs/heavies? it does remove some of their disadvantages and play to some of their strengths, prepared positions and early awareness of the attacks direction.  However it still does not reduce the fact that on the whole the ammount of nic and EP investment is not balanced, yes they may help increase the combat effectivness of each individual player but this is only an issue where they turn out is a limiting factor and resources are not.  More players in general will = more resources and if the cost per loss is also added into the mix this seems to favor zerg light bots in every economical way.

New patch notes state armor on mech/heavy are getting raised, hopefully that extra minute or so of armor will be the boost we've been waiting for... servers are down, fingers are crossed.


(4 replies, posted in General discussion)

GLiMPSE wrote:

The magic 8-ball says "Definitely maybe"

shake it again

bah, they moved from a seed economy to a sustainable one... and I feel the pain too the same as everyone, but making enough nic every week to pay for an endless supply of the best gear the game had to offer was ultimately moving towards a dead end.

Do you really want to play a game where people drop mechs like holloween candy, assaults are very capable and T3 gear is very effective, stepping up to the mech/heavy and putting on top tier gear for the first time should feel like a real accomplishment and a REAL loss when it goes poof in combat.

The game is changing, and despite a few rage quits and resentment over things suddenly getting harder, I don't think it's dieing. Under the old model the devs would never had been able to add new content fast enough and everyone would be running around maxed out after a couple months of play, how boring is that.

I think those that stay, can adapt and evolve and still have a great experience, for the new ones coming in... well they've never known anything else, I spread around the wealth I have and when it's gone I'll find a new way to squeeze the markets for nic.