1

(114 replies, posted in Guides and Resources)

@Mark Zima:

Thanks for making the planner open source.

Edit: I've had some troubles to set up the project. I made some progress once I reread the instructions carefully...

Alexander wrote:

I never liked the universe harvester charges but I guess they made sense. What would be better to make harvesting not like mining extensions and change the way they work. Grade plants into common, rare and exotic or something. Then group plants within those groups.

But then, why would miners have to specialize in mining certain ores efficiently? And why do we need different miner charges? The answer could be something like "Because you need different energy wave lengths to mine different ore". But this should also apply to harvesting.

There will still be a difference between mining and harvesting: There are no basic/advanced/expert intensive harvesting extensions. This makes some sense because plants only have a very limited amount of cycles.

I too stumbled across the extensive triandlus harvesting bug.

@DEV Zoom

I would remove the universal harvester charges and add specific helioptris/triandlus harvester charges. I guess the above bugs both are a result of the universal charges.
quote: "we don't know which plant you'll be harvesting"

When and if you do it, you would only have to disable the templates and give some compensation (21 NIC per charge) for the remaining universal charges. With the compensation people can decide if they want change their universal charges to helioptris or triandlus charges.

/signed

http://img810.imageshack.us/i/zenithinfoedit.jpg

It shouldn't be too hard not to clutter the info page. Simply use the icons from the equip-window instead of the words.

Although it might be a simple problem (from the user's point of view), the UI framework might not allow images to be drawn in the table. So it could require a lot of background work before it gets changed.

GLiMPSE wrote:
auster wrote:

No, It's not that simple. Be sure that they look into the details before they ban someone. So reporting someone just because you don't like him would be rather stupid.

I have reported you for botting the forums because you're posts are erratic and don't make sense. I have studied your patterns.

Thank you,
GLiMPSE ™

©2011 M2S

lol

EDIT: Prone to get deleted because it's against the forum rules to just "lol" wink

No, It's not that simple. Be sure that they look into the details before they ban someone. So reporting someone just because you don't like him would be rather stupid.

Nope, I've noticed one moving in a way no human would. So I have reported him and they banned him within a few hours.

Annihilator wrote:

why running transport missions on beta at all? if you can do it with a macro/bot on alpha. i heard there are some running around and that its almost painfull easy to programm.

To all: Don't even think about it. They will be banned on sight. That is a fact!

From how I understand it, there is no exception. So Alpha miners should be affected aswell.
What I don't understand is why the interference has some max influence?

@Artem:
Prices are dictated by demand and supply. So if you made sure that the supply on the Alphas was low (overharvesting and no plantation), you would get high/good prices (just as it has been). It is and would be very profitable for a few people to take the time and fully harvest the scattered ripe plants. Others wouldn't even care because they don't have the robots to do it efficiently. In effect a player with a Symbiont could keep a lot of newcomers from harvesting larger amounts. And they wouldn't be able to afford the high prices for organic resources. I don't think that this is good for the game.
The ownership control might not be necessary on the Beta islands, but it is on the Alphas. Take for example a newcomer taking the time to seed a field. Without ownership a player with a Symbiont could come and take the field. The newcomer would only have the chance to take a fraction of what he has seeded.
I admit that in case of a long ripening process (12-48 hours), the ownership control could become a pest. The longer it takes, the more space I can occupy this way.

@Artem, Alexander:
Terraforming as I understood, was some means to raise/lower ground so you can build a structure (POS) on it. The ability to seed plants is independent from this and could be added as a separate expansion. That is the core of my post. It is another thing how it gets balanced. You could even define a very short ripening process (minutes) with low capacity (far less cycles than normal plants) for the Alpha islands and a very long ripening process (12-48 hours) with high capacity (far more cycles than normal) on the Beta islands. And even that the seeded plants automatically die on the Alphas after some period, but not on the Betas. It is the same mechanic for both island types but you can set very different parameters.

@Neoxx:
I'll move on to the Beta islands soon enough. And I'll take my party hat when the time has come.

Usernames shouldn't be used aswell!
Just write down the names of all the people who have joined a channel. The only thing you then have to do is to guess/brute force attack their password. The way some people choose their password makes guessing the passwort sometimes very easy.

The Helioptris prices have skyrocketed lately. The problem is that although there are many plants and seeded plants, the total amount of harvestable (i.e. ready to be harvested) plants is very limited. Almost everyone I ask on the Alphas has no clue or whatsoever that - if you leave some cycles - plants might refill after 24h. And even if they do, they still harvest all because if they leave some, others will even take the remaining cycles. And there is no way to kick their butt because they most likely are not in your corp, nor in your alliance. Welcome to the vicious cycle.

As Helioptris is needed for various items, this problem affects all. Although it won't solve the problem, it still might help a bit to shift some Helioptris requirements towards Triandlus. The only thing that really helps is a server restart because the current state of the plants doesn't seem to be persistent (at least some ease from time to time).

What would help is to add planting which would serve as a steady source for organic resources.

# Where to get the seeds from:
In order to plant, you need the corresponding seeds. These could be extracted from the harvested plants using the Refinery. Some amount of plants give you some amount of seeds. It most likely won't be a 1:1 relationship. More likely one that can be improved with the Refining extension.

# How to use the seeds:
Of course you need some module which takes the seeds and puts them into the ground. These seeders should be some new arms just like the miner/harvester arms. New ones because they put something into the ground. Their CPU/Reactor/Acc usage should be similar so you can seed new plants when you are harvesting others. It should also be possible to fit robots solely with seeders. This way you could form squads with one seeder and multiple harvesters if the ripening process is short (minutes). If the ripening process is rather long, it makes no sense to have mixed equipment.
Most likely you will have to lock (no primary lock) a tile on the ground. Then you activate your seeder and the ripening process will start. This means that the seeder shouldn't automatically start a new cycle once the previous cycle is finished (just like the geoscanners). This means that the speed in which you can plant depends on the cycle time of your seeders, your locking time and the number of lockable targets (electronics/Targeting, robot's max number of targets).

# How long should the ripening process take?
I prefer a short period (minutes). The reason is that if it takes hours, or even days, it will be difficult for the players to plan ahead. Say you plant a large field, but then it turns out that you won't have time to harvest them due to problems in RL. Then what? A short period would give a reason to form squads (1 seeder, multiple harvesters) if you want to harvest large amounts. A short period isn't very realistic because non-player plants take much longer. Just assume that you use genetically enhanced seeds.

# Ownership of player seeded plants:
Player seeded plants need to be owned by someone. I could imagine that some players want that even player seeded plants are owned by no one. The answer is the same as the ownership of containers dropped by npcs. Of course, after a certain time has passed, the ownership should be lost. This will limit the size of a planted field.
Should the ownership be visible to others? I say no. There is no such indication for dropped containers although I almost always can deduce it from the players being near by. This is relevant if you choose that player seeded plants should be combat relevant (block the way, keyword harassment).
The only thing you should be able to see is a yes/no answer. I guess some color indication seems to be best: a yellow "Helioptris (50)" for a "yes you can" (ownership lost) and red for "no you can't" (another player still has ownership). So there is no need to change the indication of naturally grown plants.

# Combat relevance - Should player seeded plants block the way?
In my opinion, this shouldn't be a question at all. They should block the way just as naturally grown plants do. If they block the way, then this could be used as a combat tactic. This would open a new possibility for Miners/Harvesters to take part in combat actions. I would very much welcome this possibility. But: Plants would have to be destructible and not just by accident. Currently you can lock the tile under a plant, but you are unable to shoot. This would have to be changed.
An example: The defenders of an outpost could build a wall of plants to block a way. The attackers still have a chance to remove the blockade, but it would seriously hinder them. The amount of life/hp or even surface hit size given to the plants could be used to balance this issue. You could even add some new weapons to counter such measures (chainsaw, microwave emitter, poison for the seeder module, ...).
You could not just block some way, but even some resource fields. You could for example try to sneak some seeders onto your enemie's Beta island. These seeders then only have to seed plants on and around an epriton field to completely block it. Although this might be a valid tactic on the Beta islands, it would seriously hurt the game if it was also be possible on the Alpha islands. So there needs to be a way to restrict on which tiles you can or can't seed plants.

# Counter measures: Poisoned ground
A later expansion could add some poison. Poison would have to bloaded into a seeder and if applied to a tile it should say "Poisoned (1)". The more cycles you run on the same tile, the higher the counter goes. Of course there should be some max amount (e.g. 50). If applied to a tile on which there already is a plant, the plant should die instantly or after some short amount of time. The next cycle should increase the poisoned counter by 1. In order to remove the poison, it should be possible to seed a plant. The plant should grow a bit, but then dies, decreasing the poisoned counter by one. Maybe also add some harvester charges to remove the poison. In that case, the poison could be extracted to a certain degree. This way players have the chance to remove blockades faster and Miners/Harvesters could partition in combat actions even more. Furthermore players would have the chance to say themselves where no plants should be seedable.

# Restricting where plants can be seeded:
I have played another game (I can't remember it's name) where it was possible to seed plants. The problem was that it had small dedicated fields on which you could seed plants. It was always a hassle to find a free spot on these rare fields. Such restriction makes no sense if seeded plants should be combat relevant.
Tiles should get a new number attribute (seedability). A seedability of zero means no plant can be seeded on this tile. A value greater than zero means that plants can be seeded on the tile. Although it is more realistic, it should be simpler and easier to update if all seedable plants shared the same attribute.
The initial value of this attribute should be some value greater than zero. I simply assume that it is a range between 0 and 1, which defines how many cycles the ripe plant will have in relation to naturally grown plants. This has some advantages:
- This way newcomers have the chance to seed plants at locations that others can't reach.
- The max amount of cycles of player seeded plants should be lower than that of natrually grown plants. Thus naturally grown plants have some advantage.
- The max cycle count could be different for Alpha and Beta islands.
It is "easy" to initilize these attributes and even avoid resource fields from being blocked. It gets tricky to ensure that people can still reach certain/important locations such as outposts, terminals, resource fields and even Npc locations. Certain corridors have to be defined. I guess it would be possible to define these corridors manually using some painting tool.

# Possible abuses:
- You will never be able to keep people from seeding epen shaped fields. I don't consider this to be such a big problem. The plants are and must be destructible. And even if such a field insults some player, he can still report such an incident and the (previous) owner can be warned or even banned.
- AFK players could be caught within a field. You would just have to seed plants around him. Well, you shouldn't be AFK on the field for a long time anyways. This shouldn't be much of a problem for combat robots. It would only be annoying for Miners/Harvesters. But then you could still report the problem.
At this point it makes sense to add a timer after which the player seeded plants disappear on their own.

# Detectability of seedable tiles:
The other game I have played didn't provide any means to see where plants can be seeded and where not. Either you had to test it yourself, or you could see it by the fields others have planted.
Now geoscanners could be of some use to harvesters. Add some new charge that analyzes the ground and tells you in it's result where plants can be seeded. Basically the result would be nothing more than a check on the seedability attribute.

Do you mean weight (mass) or units (cargo space)?
I would like to have the ability to split by cargo space.

14

(7 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Why not both at the same time? Some "Tn"-identifyer at the top-left/right corner and the color to display the remaining quality?
But then, why not show the tier of the item on the normal images aswell?

15

(7 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Quelthas wrote:

while we're at it, we could go ahead and just rename the game to stEVE too, right?

Funny, I have never played EVE.

Tamas Vitez wrote:
auster wrote:

...

This is only true for standard (T1) items, and so not true for higher tiers. You cannot take a T4 module and RE it.

Right. I forget that from time to time wink

When you use waypoints to pinpoint resource locations, you get some locations with quite a few waypoints. Waypoints have the advantage that you can also mark some good harvest spots.

If you have the filter set to show the waypoints and if you are far away from a spot, then all the waypoints of that spot are merged at one spot on your screen. In effect you can't distinguish these from one another. It gets worse the more waypoints you have.

Currently the only option is to disable the waypoints all together. As I don't really want to see what waypoints I have in a distance of more than 3000 m, I would like to set some maximum distance. The system then only shows me the waypoints which are within that range.

Would it make sense if the system would display only those landmarks (not just the waypoints) that are within that range?

18

(7 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Currently the number of different CT symbols/icons is very limited. Different cans or robot as far as I can see. The result is that we have to read the titles to find a specific CT. This will become painful as soon as more and more people have more and more CTs in their containers.

An easy way to improve this could be to simply take the image of the item that can be produced with the CT, transform it into grayscale and display it with blue color (or any other).

This could be done on the fly each time a CT symbol is displayed. So there is no need to actually create new symbols.

That is one point I am missing aswell.

The other idea I had is that when you want to remove a waypoint, you don't know which one on the map it will be when you have a few close by. So my additional suggestion would be to highlight (color) the selected waypoint.

EDIT: And sort them by their name. Currently they are ordered by the time they have been placed.

The prototypes will remain expensive because their resource requirement is a great deal larger. So you will hardly ever be able to keep 40 or even more prototype lines running all the time. The same applies to intensive/programmed prototype production.
It simply wouldn't be such a pain to do 5 or more prototypes in a row.

21

(27 replies, posted in Balancing)

Just throwing in some thoughts:
- Why not reduce the hit dispersion of medium weapons? If attacked by a light ew gang, a mech pilot should have the chance to take down 1-3 of them before being locked down. This would greatly reduce the cost-effectiveness of light ew and give mech ew some meaning.
- Why not give medium weapons some minimum range? Light ew bots could try to run into the safe zone next to the mech, but then have to run away again to avoid (the soon to be added) collateral damage. I really wonder why bigger weapons don't have some minimum range.

No, it does not limit the people capable of creating high tier Prototypes because it depends on your knowledge base. It only limits the number of prototype production lines you can run at the same time.

What you suggest is some mass prototype production. Apart from the contradiction (mass & prototype), this could be achieved either by allowing more lines at the same time (extensive) or more items per line (intensive or programmed). I would prefer the latter not just because I have posted this idea before (http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topic/206/prototype-production-extensions wink), but it makes more sense. Do you want to create more different prototypes, or more of the same kind at the same time? I guess it's the latter.

I support mass prototype production because the current system penalizes those who run through the hassle of researching kernels and creating a prototype. Others just buy one item from the market and then reverse engineer and mass produce it. There should be more benefit from the effort to research kernels.

And the heavy transport mech that will come in the future? It doesn't make sense if the other heavy mechs need level 8 for their extension. This also doesn't solve the problem of the overlapping robot control (industry/logistics) and the mixed attributes (IRC with industry and combat). Well, it depends if the overlapping besides the control of the Sequer is intentional.

As I have seen on http://perpetuum-online.blogspot.com it is planned to add a transport mech. And as far as I know a heavy transport mech is still planned for the distant future.

Currently the Sequer requires Industrial robot control (IRC) meaning that Miners/Harvesters get to use the Sequer for free. Combat characters, skilled to use the Sequer, can also use light miners/harvesters without having to spend much EP in other extensions. This reduces their resource demand. Things get worse if even more transport bots are added to the (IRC) branch.

What should be done is to separate the control of transport robots from the (IRC) branch and create a Logistics robot control (LRC) branch. Miners/Harvesters shouldn't be able to control transport bots for free. Likewise, combat characters, skilled to use transport bots, shouldn't be able to control miner/harvester bots for "free".

This would also help against gold farmers. If there was a (LRC) branch, it would hurt a lot even if you would only ban their transport character. If you missed a few miners/harvesters, then they have hardly any use as their ability to transport their mined/harvested resources is crippled. Let the banhammer strike them even harder!

Primary/Secondary attributes:

The Combat robot control extensions (Nuimqol, Pelistal, Spec ops, Thelodica) all use Tactics (T) and Mechatronics (M) for their Prim/Sec attributes. Industrial robot control (IRC) uses Heavy industry (HI) and Mechatronics (M). This is unfair with regards to specialization!
Now the only reason I see that (IRC) is based upon (M) is due to the Sequer.

(IRC) should have (HI) and (RND) as it's prim/sec attributes.
(LRC) should have (HI) and (M) as it's prim/sec attributes.

25

(13 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

How easily can gold farmers avoid random obstacles? If it is hard for them, then leave it as it is.