Hello,
I had a refiner as support character; definetlly interesting mostlly if u make a lot of pve as the drops will give you a nice cut on mats. With recent changes in rare yields seems valuable for both main careers. Relation has big influence in % lost.

Do not ,. pls, do not nerf more existing skills.
Or want to revamp all game, tweak lwf, extensions, nexus etc.,.,
Or navigation extension its just "Train inmediatlly", hence usless... (my guess)
Or its working as intended and no much else to see.,.,

Every tweak in speed should be related, as its has been mostlly, to mas and weight of bots and modules.

Then they are not must, are good or relevant or important, no same.
No need to have a penalization in Nav, u alrrdy have penalty with lwf & extensions dont have a penalty, why should nav?.

Do not enter endless tweaks pls, if nav its broken remove it (again, or give everybody enough ep at the start to rise it), if not leave it that way as there are plenty of more urgent things.

that its so true.

i play 3 acounts myslef, i would make the following setup now:
- A) fighter, but still have to choose from pure fighter, ew, nexus, ,depending on playerstyle and preferences.
- B) industrial that i would mainlly have docked; with market and refining extensions (or alts), research and production. The character with the industrial and refining extensions should grind relations.
- C) miner/harvester, pvp/pve support
I made recycler, marketeer, and refiner the C) acount althou im pretty sure i could have concentrated some more roles on the B) acount wich atm its producer and miner.

-Well, most of big corps are not "mad" pretty good hint who will beneffit the most; "much easier and competitive entry to the industrialist career" 100% false.

-Sandbox argument its used so mecanics dont narrow gameplay, have u even readed part of the thread by any chance? supporting diversity its good for sanbox games T1 only market aint diversity, forcing independent idustrials to stick to T1 aint diversitiy, making recycle a useless path aint diversity. What im sure sandbox does not mean its bring more noobs/independants to my target computer pls, in real sanboxes that its your bussines.

- lol Big nerf for indy new industrial (who fking feed the >T1 public market) and buff the Beta megacorps , i get it ,. very sanboxy.

- Old mmo story to my ears; pvp sharks need the carebars to have easy kills as they are afraid to fight themselves => DEV team caters to big paying coprs and game bleeds "carebears" who hate to be forced to play the game some brats wish => Game enters new "golden" era.:lol:

- If you want to drag ppl to beta, put more incentives ,. make it more alpha friendlly (you beta corps gatecamping ftl, kos, mining deals lol?), but changing things that are not issue and DO not help new producers and as pointed here before only a small bunch of T1 items dont come from drop (oh yeah  , sensor amps!!, they are very expensive and i want use them all time QQ; Sr. also are T4 tunnings and i dont come here begging for a change in others ppl playstyle i just dont use them allways or farm some cash to afford it).

-HGR just gives espitium!, damn, that aint that fking hard. Alpha producers want that espitium so they can effectivelly use their research and produce their fking T2, T3 modules for the open market, so more small corps can acces to them and go pvp. Its that sOOO imbalance and sOOO wrong? yeah ppl playing their game and not bending to your leadership should all screw up?. No mechs, no T4, where its the issue?

This its a FAIL as comunity and a rampage of the greed.

wrong ,. some ppl wont join beta, no the game they like, they will just give you moar money buying raw epi or leave game as slowlly bends towards the moar bload preys. No aversion to beta, simplly some ppl like to do other things (also good for the server), and giving them the chance to craft something besides T1 also good for economy.
we need all kind of players; its you the pvp´ers that safelly alpha mine and jump to beta in your leet roams; why force rest of players to change their playstile or clear the paths you followed so noone can follow you?

Im not alpha dweler btw, and i like changes if positive for the game. Here i just see, as Smokey its pointing, a unecesary attempt to force ppl even more to go to beta, unnecessary fully.

as u said, before u needed a person in charge nad logged so you could beneffit from your internal market otherwise u needed to acces the "real" market; now internal market eases being selfsufficient, bad x2.

I bet my boat no beta corp sells T1 sensorp amp on maket.
If u make it even cheaper to produce; those that actually are trying to get some cash selling unlooted T1 modules, may very well stop doing it. And no only that; HGR gave a posibility to craft t2 and t3 modules; now only "beta=i-never-hit-public-market" will be able to do them. Can u hurt more the market?

edit to note again that HGR does not give acces to aligior, the real "key" comodity that gives acces to any robot that stands on their feets, so dont fear the alpha recyclers.

Epriton will still be needed like its is now., ,. where issue?
-This its different thing, HG recyling was a viable path for a small copr to feed their espitium needs, mainlly to "produce" some tiered modules so they dont have to relly entirelly on market and to be able to produce light EW, since espitium was introduced long time ago in their req.; now you want to narrow the possibilities to ninja or bow simplly to have basic espitium needs covered, give to those who choose more time before they jump to beta.
-Ppl defending this kind of changes are a nice view of who will beneffit the most; ppl that not only dont have the need of nic, nor mats nor anything more, seems only thing left for them its just make newcomers harder to catch them. I cant agree.
-Myself i have done all , HG recylce, buy permits to mine, ninja. And i feelt back in the time that HGR gave me a alternative route that would help me to deal with the excesive EPI prices that Beta coprs play with, it would not make me selfsufficient by any chance althou ofc.
-What for? so newcomers can produce T1 items that are alrrdy feeded by pve?, like should be as you cant make t1 prototypes and are much expensive to craft than t2; alternative could be removing the espitium form those who are not dropped by npc´s mayb., like shields and so (wich are actually a good product for new industrials now).
TBH i dont see how this would help new industrialist, if that its the real purpose of these changes.

-why recyle something different than t1 or flawled modules?, no percentages tweak plain useless.
-why make corp operation to exploit recyling if you can get much more proffit with intended game mecanics like beta mine or tons of others, ., same reason as why all players are not 100% time artiscaning,., each player has to find the best way to get money at their current "lvl", might be very profitable for new players but it comes to a point u can be more effective and have more fun moving to another thing.