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Perpetuum Forums → Posts by Hourglass
Soooo instead of just giving us MK II bots with more CPU and Reactor we get bots with the same stats and two slots that most people are just going to put CPU and reactor mods in...
Six of one, half a dozen of the other I guess.
I'm still vastly unimpressed.
Two more slots and a bonus that's of questionable use for the cost.
No extra CPU, no extra PG, no extra accumulator, no extra resistances... I dunno, I'm pretty unimpressed. I have decent fittings skills and I already have trouble fitting mechs the way that I want to, much less if there were extra slots.
PC Gamer just dropped this video on their web site and it makes me happy in the pants. Inside-the-cockpit style combat in awesome looking mechs instead of spiderbots!
Ranged or static "step on this and die" weapons are a very bad idea in this kind of environment. As soon as something like this comes out, then the lead alliance on a beta island will heavily mine every single chokepoint so that going there without an alliance ticker will be pointless.
Now if mines end up being introduced as something that can be deployed in a radius around a POS, then I'm all for it, but just being able to litter the landscape with mines will be very game breaking.
Also, AoE ranged weapons are a terrible idea too. As soon as the first one is introduced, then all other weapons system for PVP become obsolete since you can now hit multiple targets with one shot instead of just one.
On the other hand PBAoE (Point Blank AoE) weapons are perfectly balanced. Turn it on and it pulses energy out from your bot/mech and damages anyone too close... could be used as a suicide bomber or what not. Now that's fun and not too game breaking.
This game is without a doubt an EVE copy. A single persistent server, no instances, skill based, the vast majority of skills have an exact EVE equivalent, economy is player driven, mechs are fitted with modules, accumulator = capacitor, CPU, Powergrid, Armor shields, mechs have weapon and other bonus's, weapon systems are lifted completely from EVE.... the comparisons are nearly endless. Anyone who says this isn't a copy of EVE either hasn't played EVE or is a slobbering fanboi trying to distance this game from one they don't care for.
That being said, this game also has enough different to make it a new and exciting game that will be very successful in my opinion. The game mechanics are just different enough to make it feel like you are more in control of your own fate in combat rather than simply clicking orbit and waiting for your damage to calculate.
If a niche game like EVE can not only survive but continue to grow steadily year after year, then, then taking EVE and modifying it for the better can only mean good things for this game as well.
I'm so confident that this game will survive and work through it's current issues that I'm paid up several months in advance on two different accounts. 
Great work devs!
'05 EVE bittervet reporting in.
EVE was a ridiculously fun game During the Red Moon Rising and Revelations I & II era, then they lost their damned minds and started changing all kinds of basic mechanics that made the game fun and then they turned null sec into easy mode for any alliance that held space.
Ever since then, I log in every once in a while when my alliance has a CTA, go blow people up or get blown up and then log back off. There's really no spark there anymore.
I still have a couple of active accounts, but only because I'm just shy of 100 mill SP on them and that was always my ultimate goal in the game.
Rather than taking a page from EVE and basically introduce one of the most broken aspects of that game into this one, lets take a page from Planetside.
Instead of putting Titans in this game, lets add drop ships that can hold certain amount of cargo room. Give it a large hold that can be filled with active mechs and allow it to be piloted over water to the PVP islands.
It would open up a whole new world of tactics. You never know if the one drop ship full of medium mechs is their entire force or whether they have 2-3 more drop ships hovering off the coast and waiting for the signal that they've been engaged.
Also, there would be epic lulz the first time a drop ship pilot turned traitor and dropped his load mechs right into the middle of an ambush.
EVE Fitting Tool is awesome.. the one I've heard about for this game is merely vaporware at this point.
... and no, I'm not going to come home from working on the 20+ Dell R905's with VMWare, and Dell M6300 clients all day long and then sit down and start programming a fitting tool. Computer at home for play, computers at work.. for work. 
This game needs an Mech Fitting Tool so I don't have to sit there and calculate every little EP expenditure by hand to see if it will effect me.
Oh great. another game where riding decimal places means wasted EP.
It would be nice to not have to sit here with a calculator to find out if I'm wasting EP before I dump a day's worth into an extension. Putting EP into something should provide an immediate tangible result instead of "Gotcha! Better luck getting some CPU back next time!".
I've been purchasing levels of Optimized Weapon Usage as I have enough EP available to do so, and I ran into an interesting problem this morning.
This morning I purchased lvl 4 of this extension and I received no CPU gain at all.
I'm using a Baphomet with Thelotec-Dabis Light HCL lasers. These lasers start off by using 20 CPU. At level 3 of the optimized weapon usage extensions, they had reduced that usage to 16 per gun. Then I purchased lvl 4 of the extension and... nothing.
I refreshed the fitting page.
I pulled the guns off and put them back on.
I switched out of mech into a different mech and back.
Still says 16.
So my question is: Is there some math that I'm not taking into account here? Is there a formula at work that I don't know about that calculates the CPU reduction of the weapons?
You're pretty much asking to rewrite the mechanics of the game.
Pretty sure that's not gonna happen.
/rant
The only problem I have with targeting is that it's clunky and overly complicated. Targeting should consist of holding a hot key and clicking on what you want to target in order. The first thing you lock is automatically primary and when it dies, the next thing that you locked is automatically pushed up to primary. No clicks needed, just automatic bump in the meat grinder queue. If you decide that you want to change targets, simply mouse over it and give it a single click.. presto! Primary!
The current method is one hot key to primary something, another hot key to select secondaries, then, when your primary dies, we have to perform some more keyboard and mouse Olympics to shoot at another target. God forbid you click on anything else on your screen in between selecting primaries and secondaries, cause now you've just un-highlighted your next primary and will have to click on it again and then hit a hot key to make it primary.
Of all things that should have been lifted from EVE with no changes, targeting should have been one of them.
/end rant
Ok, I am going to be a bit controversial.
#2, #3 + #4 I agree with.
However, I disagree on the first. First of all just because 0.01 isk wars are the way things work on EvE, doesnt mean it has to be the case here - I know you didnt make this point but im just putting it out there anyway. Do we really want the 0.01 isk wars of EvE?
Whilst it may be a hassle to have to re-do the entire order , remember that everyone else is burdened by the same risks. If orders can be changed quickly and cheaply then the market is just ruled by whoever can stare at the market for longer than the other guy.
However, I have an alternative suggestion.
I think you should be able to modify existing orders quickly and easily as suggested. But not without a cost. Modifying an existing order should cost the transaction fee (or most of the transaction fee) each time.
This will make it a viable market tactic to PROPERLY undercut. Not by 0.01 NIC to see who has the most time to spend monitoring their orders, but by a larger margin to discourage competitors.(Ok, just seen the last guy suggesting the same.. heh
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Making it more of a hassle to change the price of an order will not stop an industrialist from watching the market like a hawk and changing the price.
If you get rid of fractions of a NIC, then people will simply keep the price lower by one whole NIC. It won't change anything at all. Some people simply have more time to spend playing a persistent MMO and will choose to spend that time making sure that their stuff sells.
The best way to help the problem is to make it so that players can't change the price of any single market order for five or more minutes. That way the price war can't simply be back and forth every second for an hour until people's fingers bleed.
/Agreed
Proposal #1 is needed very urgently.
The rest are great features and also needed, but having to repost every market order just for a .01 NIC change is an extreme hassle.
I'm sorry, but this idea is so far out in the left field that I can't help but wonder if we're being trolled. 
Brilliant Summary
^^ This ^^
Hourglass wrote:I think that the only way to do this would be to allow one total respec up to 30 days after character creation.. and only one respec per account.
Could you explain why you think having a full and total respec before a month is the only solution?
Why would a slow and progressive respec option, as multiple people suggested earlier in this thread, not work?
Because a month is plenty of time to figure out what you do and don't like to do in this game. You'll know about a week in, if you made a miner, whether you actually like mining or not. Some people think that the idea of pointing a laser at the ground and pulling minerals out to sell sounds like fun... until they've done it for a week straight. At that point, they either go "Man, this is way more boring than I thought" or they go "I can't wait to fill my cargo hold with more of X ore so I can dominate the market!".
A big part of sandbox games is living with the consequences of your actions. If you make a bad choice and put a bunch of EP into something that you realize you don't want, well that's tough cookies kid... wait a few days until you have more EP and you can right your wrong.
I accidentally blew a bunch of EP's in Firearms within an hour of playing, only to find out later that firearms are really only useful on the starter bot. Whooops. Maybe I should have researched more before blowing points. That's MY bad. The DEV's shouldn't have to spend extra time coding to make up for my uneducated choices.
You always have a primary damage type that you cannot change. Lasers can diversify the most with the multispectral. Yes, you will have a primary target with your weapon type, but when we're speaking of only bots, the opportunity for resistance buffing is quite low. Waspishes pretty much cant buff unless in a tanking/remote rep situation, Baphomets have 3 lows so they can use 1 resistance plate to turn their lowest resistance into their highest.
With mechs it gets a lot more interesting. Most will be sporting resistance plates, if not multiples of them, so its a lot harder to tell what your enemy is weakest to. At that point theres not a whole lot of difference to their resistances if they fit correctly, and it comes down mostly to your dps and strategy, picking weak targets is almost impossible to do.
Ahhh, ok. That makes total sense. The rock/paper/scissors method is mostly at the Bot phase of the game.
Heck, after looking over the accumulator extensions in the game, and finally noticing that accumulator injectors exist in this game as well, I may be totally off base on the Laser/Accumulator argument in the first place. It's just hard to see that when every time my five lasers fire on a Baphomet and 25% off my ACC disappears.
Remember that what's worked for Eve isn't guaranteed to work here, as there is another player in the market. It's hard enough to convince a player to engage on a game where progression is based on subscription time, so if there are two of them, the new player may rather choose the bigger/older/more populated one.
In my opinion Perpetuum need to be different from Eve, and advertise these differences. And by different, I meant something more than WASD movement. Respec or increased EP for new players may be something really needed.
Also after the slow progression system, another thing that's putting a lot of players off is probably the multi-accounting. When I read that some people here had up to 6 accounts on Eve, I'm wondering if it's still worth playing PO with my single account. Try to imagine what effect it may have one someone checking the forums before subscribing? And unfortunately, I don't have any solution to this.
I agree that everything that works for EVE won't work here. It's a very similar game at it's core, but then there are already huge glaring differences such as no tracking speed and transversal.. which are what I live by in PVP over there.
As for multiple accounts, I don't quite agree with you there. The guys with multiple accounts are almost universally doing one of three things:
1) Gold farmers. In EVE, these guys would make 10 accounts, have eight of them mining and two of them hauling and refining to sell the mins for profit... which they then sell to players. It won't be long before you see this happening in this game.
2) Industrialists setting up an efficient mining/hauling/industry chain. If you don't want to log in every day and spam your corp mates to help you haul what you're mining, then the only other option is to get another account with a hauler on it. This only helps the fledgling economy at this point, especially considering that most items aren't even for sale yet.
3) Hardcore PVP'ers who want to focus all of their EP on their PVP character into being better combat machines. These pilots rarely want to move their PVP character away from their home base just to do a few hours of grinding for NIC. Instead, they create a second account that they use to generate income.
You're also comparing a 1v1 situation. Even if you are correct in your assumptions and/or calculations, and yes the Kain is the fastest mech speed fit, its useless to balance this game on a 1v1 basis. We have our weak target and worst nightmare for a reason.
Actually, I'm having difficulty understanding that concept as well. From what I can tell, I can fit ammo that does all different types of damage. Sure, if I'm running with 'Volcano' in my guns, then anything with a thermal hole in their resistance is gonna be screaming.. but if I see something that I know has a different resistance hole, I'd just swap ammo to one that does that type of damage.
Is there something else I'm missing in the rock, paper, scissors design?
Neoxx wrote:You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
I don't agree with Neoxx very often, but he is right with that sentence.
Also, before this goes overboard - please edit your posts in this topic to be within the rules.
No. He's not right with his sentence. He's arrogant and pompous. Hadouken explained where my misconception was. I have an entire list of, what I believe to be good suggestions. He doesn't comment on any of them, he just drive-by-flames a single comment I made under my list of suggestions, without any explanation.
Having played EVE for the past six years straight, I forgot to take into account the fact that almost all gear effects your mass/speed in this game. Only a small handful of modules effect your speed in that game, and guns aren't one of them.
Yes, this isn't EVE, but he didn't have to be an *** about it. Besides, if he wants to take on any of my 100Mill+ SP characters over there, he's welcome to have a try. I guess we're both just experts at different games... at this point.
I've been playing EVE for the past six years on two accounts pretty much nonstop, so the concept of training slowly over time gives me a warm and fuzzy.
Most people coming to an MMO like this one, however, will have just left a game where bashing things over the head for a few weeks straight, gets you to max level.
There is no "catching up". You can only pilot one bot/mech at a time no matter how many EP's you have. Yes, a veteran pilot will be able to pilot more types of mech and bots, or simply be very good with one race, but that doesn't mean you can't be competitive with good planning.
Also, give the game six weeks and most of the beginning areas won't be farmed as heavily as people will be moving farther out for better spawns.
I think that the only way to do this would be to allow one total respec up to 30 days after character creation.. and only one respec per account.
This game is so new and has such a high learning curve, that a lot of people have no clue if they're training the right EP's yet, or if they'll even like their chosen profession. So what will end up happening with some players is that they'll get two weeks into a mining character and realize that they really hate mining and all they want to do is go shoot people.
Then they could use that one time respec to realign their priorities instead of maybe quitting the game in frustration.
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
This is a post for the GM's and Dev's and if I'm wrong about something, then they'll see that, and correct my misconception and do what needs to be done.
Get a yellow Dev box next to your name and then tell me allllll about how wrong I am.
Mostly good stuff, but about the lasers. They drain accu more then other weapons, true. But they do pretty decent damage, and have the longest range. Lasers are for kiting, not only in pve, but in pvp as well. If your going lasers, your goal is to stay out of range of your enemies and blast them from a far, your basicaly a sniper. thats why you don't get as much accu for things like repair and defense. Your not suppose to be getting hit or in range of drainers in the first place.
Well lasers are also the bonus'ed weapon for both the most heavily armored and slowest mechs in the game. Keeping range and DPS'ing sounds great until you've got a Kain bearing down on you at top speed with shields up and you're slow poking it backwards.
I agree that the highest DPS weapon in the game should probably use more ACC, no doubt, however they use just tad too much. I just think the amount burned per shot needs to be modified a bit, but still the highest use weapon.
Perpetuum Forums → Posts by Hourglass
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