So, they reduced their numbers at some point, and lost the blob advantage; this actually bolster my agruement about numbers being able to over run tactics.

As for individual fits, as I said I was just generalizing the case.

To analyze the actual first engagement though, I think the agressing force didn't assume the Tech/EA advantage would have an effect and pushed the first encounter off the teleport. The defensive retreat, while sound, was not really a tactical master-piece, however the aggressive force got strung out chasing and I believe you were able to apply damage to the leading edge because of your speed and range. If you acutally killed anyone it was bad tactics on their part for being too far forward. On the otherside though, I can see they were trying to tackle and kill, but again that was poor offense, not great defense.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but they had the numbers and if they had stayed in a group moving at 42 and forced you to come to them as they advanced to to a fixed target point, where your speed would have been negated.

edit: damn you for changing my troll to something ALMOST useful

Tiggus wrote:

The funny part to me is infestation fights 2:1 odds in these intrusions all the time, I would absolutely love to see what would happen in an actual 1:1 fight, you know, even odds.

Also if you're placing more importance on skills/equipment than leadership you are doing it wrong.  There were a couple major errors made on the attackers side that allowed what happened to occur, and also a great deal of excellent maneuvering and calls on the defensive side that turned things around for the underdogs.  Downplay it if you want but m2s has some great tactical leaders in largescale combat and combined with an alliance of non-retarded troops who don't fit autocannons on artemises that is what won the day.

And I agree with you on all those points. Your alliance just automatically goes into defensive mode whenever anyone posts something in their thread they percieve as negative.

The only thing I was trying to point out, was the comment about numbers and that if both sides had the same tech and skills level (not player skill, EP skill) that the numbers would have overrun any tactics you could have used. The fact that your alliance has pulled together as a group and brought your all your team up to T4 and properly fit is great and your tactics were sound so you deserved to win this engagement....

But your corp does enough self-promotion, don't need me to, so I add some troll bait to keep us all busy at work.

Snowstyle wrote:

A large part of the skill involved in this game is preparation. Knowing how to fit out a robot for the situation your going into. But I do understand how you wouldn't have figured this out yet considering your corp still doesn't know how to fit out robots.

And stop pulling numbers out of your *** concerning who had what equipped when you weren't even there.

Like even being there would let me know which accounts where EA or T4 equipped, so like maybe I was generalizing to make a point, or is that concept too difficult to grasp for you.

Your point about fitting is spot on though, so add that as another non-tactical issue that would have also resulted in 2.5-1 odds resulting in a different outcome.

Your're going to have to put more points into trolling though, your starting to lose your EA advantage.


(18 replies, posted in Open discussion)

"Pew pew is poo poo for the choo choo"


(18 replies, posted in Open discussion)

'My other ride is Non sequitur, cake"

Oh, if only... but M2S would die of troll-vation syndrome if they stopped posts. Just get all the OMG I hate all the carebear mechanic posts out of the way and get on with the game.

So, just as a poll.

If they create 1 gamma Island, who do you think will move there, be able to defend the gate 24/7, and still have enough man power to raid the Beta Islands?

You were in a fantasy yesterday, did the sheep survive being caught in the fence this time?

Blorturmur wrote:

the only thing i would amend to that is that you guys definitely had a range advantage that we couldn't take.
I know for myself, i hardly got a shot off at all because the blobs didnt ever get that close..

Nothing like having a 1 or 2 T4 sensor boosters and an extra 2-3 skill points in long range... or wait, those don't matter.

Its not like having even 10 meters of extra range would allow you to just run backwards and kill bots like the first 30 minutes of the video showed; I hope that tactic isn't what you're calling superior, because any idiot can run backwards and keep a target just out of range.

Blackomen wrote:
Arga wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Contributing factors in Infestation's favor to counter numbers -

T3-T4 equipment
EA enhanced skills

Granted, those alone are not enough, but if the other side had a majority of pilots (80 out of 100 instead of the 10 of 100 they probably had) with those additional factors + numbers the outcome may have been different.

Yes we had some T3-T4 equipment, so did the enemy. (We looted them) So that's invalid.

EA enhanced skills? Seriously? Your suggesting out of their 120 man blob that they didn't have 30 EA players? As that's how many we had in the fight. Your either desperately trying to defend them, or are a complete idiot, or both.

Numbers were estimated at 120 vs 45. It may be as much as +10/-10 from the 120 estimated, but no more or less.

Gotta love people who only read part of a short post.

Yes, I'm saying they had less than 30 EA accounts in a blob of 120; but more I'm saying that you had 30/45.
I said they had T3-T4 but few, but that your 'some' is probably more like 'most', again 30/45.

66% of your force was 'advanced', while at most 10-15% of the blob were.


Where I said "Granted, those alone are not enough" was as much credit as I was going to give you for tactics because your ego's are already big enough.


Who ever said you didn't deserve to be better outfitted? Sensitive much?

I'm saying, lets see a fraps of 120 to 45 bots both with advanced fittings and EA, and while your force may not be wiped out, it will be retreating and losing the objective; but you can continue your fantasy of leadership and tactics overcoming that, as I'm sure you will.

This piece-meal whittling of game mechanics is getting old.

First deleting cargo, now containers.

Just list everything you need to make pirating fun and let the dev's change it all at one time; so they can get back to programming the fun stuff like artillary and tanks.

I'm serious, if you catch someone afk mining or undefended you should get the stuff, just get all of your issues organized and submitted in one place to get it over with.

Neoxx wrote:

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Contributing factors in Infestation's favor to counter numbers -

T3-T4 equipment
EA enhanced skills

Granted, those alone are not enough, but if the other side had a majority of pilots (80 out of 100 instead of the 10 of 100 they probably had) with those additional factors + numbers the outcome may have been different.

Neoxx wrote:

Because putting certain materials only on islands we do not occupy is in our favor.

So your saying you don't think you can protect your Island? I thought that was Infestation's claim to fame.

GLiMPSE wrote:


While I respect your view on the subject, it is completely and entirely off based and misguided.

Please refrain from speaking about things you know nothing about -- PvP.

That being said -- I would be able to do a lot more mining on Hok with this iPad support.

Best regards,

sweet! my first troll win!

Currently, the game mechanics allow for the iPad's small screen to be fully useable because of mob tactics. With the introduction of 'sploding bots AoE players will eventually start spreading out of self-defense; there is a complicated formula to describe the intregal aspect of the time this will take to go into effect, suffice to say that the average blob player will need to be blow'd up 4-5 times before realizing that standing next to anther bot is dangerous (side note: "WTF, how did I just die" will fill chat logs for exactly 73 hours after implementation.) At this time, the small screen will no longer be useable as everyone will be 1000m from each other.

*Carebear Troll alert*

I agree with your working assumption that the dev's want to the game to be self-sustaining, but there seems to be a misconception that they are making this a mass market game; I know I made that assumption myself.

It may not be terribly obvious, but the game is being allowed to grow organically. We have been dropped into a persistant sand-box world with a very basic rule set. How the world develops is up to us, the Dev's are there to make sure the 'rules' provide a fun playable environment.

This game play concept is different from content drivin MMO's. If the new player comes into Perpetuum expecting a content driven game, the EP rate would be only 1 issue of many they would have.

The point, if a new player is turned off the game because they can't 'Catch Up', then they will not enjoy the game even if that part of the system was adjusted.

And to repeat, changing the EP rate would break the balance of the current world, and require so many adjustments to fix it would no longer be the same game.

More transparent attempts by Infestation to manipulate the game to play to their strength.

Ignoring physics one one hand then suggesting fixes to mechanics that require it on the other hand makes my head want to explode.

Either the cargo is materially in the hold, which means you'd need a bot larger than a Mech to carry a mech, or its not materially in the hold. Since a sequar can carry a mech, it can't be materially in the hold. Therfor the arguement about mass vs speed is moot.

From a game play standpoint, moving slower with cargo is not fun. I don't care how much memory it takes on the game server, or how the game database can be setup to allow for it. 90% of the transport people will just stop playing, the other 10% may continue to haul at 15kph, but the game will grind to a halt from lack of material.

And the transparent troll by OP to try to slow sequars down to make them easier to kill is transparent.

1. Glimpse trolled you.

2. Getting skills faster would be great, who wouldn't want that, but this game is not balanced around the individual player like a FPS or games with rated PVP. Accelerated EP may be a good psychological boost for new players, but it will ruin the game not save it. Specifically trying to 'equalize' all the players will make the game top heavy.

3. Yes, when the game is more mature (in 2 years) it would make sense to give new character more EP to start the game with, maybe 40k EP instead of 20k, or even a staged entry where they add 1K starting every month after the first 6 months. This will allow new characters to get into the advanced content a little faster without unbalancing the top end.

I'm not sure that's true.

Area scan size is also effected by extension, but as we are talking about new players, lets assume its just 100x100m. if each sq meter can have up to 255 units, thats 255x10,000 units at 100%, 255 x 100 at 1%, and 255x50 at .5% (roughly 13,000 units). Now if  that .5% was all in one tile, that wouldn't be too bad, but its spread across the whole area, technically if it was evenly divided that would be 13 units per. In tile scan parlance, that's a lot of small green circles. If you had 100% accuracy, you would still have to move tiles every few minutes, losing a charge each time a spot ran out; but assuming your a new player again, your not going to have 100% so your also going to attempt to mine 'empty' spots by mistake.

The rounding error is not an issue, if the area truely has less than 1%, even arkhe mining is going to waste charges and time.

the question is, does the universal charge trigger if the amount is less than 1%. In any case, using that charge is much more effective, as the area you are in may not have the ore your scanner is loaded to check for. You may be getting 0% titan because its 99% HDT!

Thanks for the quality troll Black smile


(5 replies, posted in Balancing)

There are a lot of items in this post...

A pure combat spark starts with extensive mining [1] and no EP in industrial robots. If they put all thier EP into combat, which seems reasonable, they will only be able to fit small mining modules. However the delta between the material extraction of 4 small modules on a Kain vs 4 Medium modules on a Termis is much great than 10 to 1. Factor in that the combat pilot can not drive a sequar and that gap grows even larger because they have to run back to empty cargo every 9U.

I haven't done the math, but I would suspect that a dedicated miner can gather in 1 hour what would take the combat pilot 30 hours.

For about 6 days of EP, a combat pilot can get Industrial Robot Control 4 and drive both an Argano and a Sequar. This would bring that ratio back down to 10 to 1.

Intrestingly enough however, the Termis pilot can put 1500 points into Repair and Remote repair and mount Med Remote Repair modules on thier Termis. The miner has already put significant points into Accum size and recharge as well as CPU and reactor skills to mount the 4 Med Miner modules, so can be very effective with the reppers.

I agree that an industrial agent can never be as effective in dealing damage, for a small EP investment however, they can add more value to a large scale encounter than a combat pilot applying the same EP to mining.

As far as POS goes, I hope they are implemented in such a way as you suggest; that promots PVP and a sense of ownership in the game.


(72 replies, posted in General discussion)

Lupus Aurelius wrote:

Unfortunately, (and this is another generalization, but easily seen on these forums) those who are afraid to risk their assets, the carebears, are more concerned about saving their precious pixels, of having more NIC and more toys, with no risk to those assets.  What is the point of having gads of NIC and toys, if you are too afraid to lose them instead of enjoying them?

I've seen serious combat pilots /rage logout after losing a bot... but they are right back on the next day at it again, and agents that lose a mech to npc's while farming simply swear once and quietly come back and loot thier own corpse.

I havn't met any of the /rage quit when they lose an arkhe types, but that's probablly because they are not around long enough.

I would say the players worried about losing assests are those trying to go it solo or small corps; or if you are in a corp that does nothing for you. Its easy to imagine the solo player running missions and grinding NIC, working up through bots and EP to drive a Mech. Are they really going to risk brining it out to beta? I think that falls under the don't risk what you can't afford to lose.

I don't think you are suggesting that they just throw away bots. The risk to reward isn't there for solo players to go to beta, or even for small corp members to bring 2-3 bots to beta just to have a taste of PVP; a very short taste. If your alluding to them going to beta but not coming off the gate, hard to blame them for that, I think that's less afraid of losing pixels and more just not stupid enough to step into a grinder for the thrill of pressing the space bar once and dying.

I will agree that combat pilots that farm tier 1 mobs in a mech fall into the afraid category.


(72 replies, posted in General discussion)

Shinain wrote:
Arga wrote:


The point: The bulk of PVP will always be between cheap bots. There will always be a bot that players are drooling over to drive, but will not be used in general PVP because they are too damn expensive.

You missunderstood the point about the playing time. Playing time = progress time (+ EPs for just paying the fee).  But i think youll need casuals...a lot of casuals and they should also have reasonable target within this game.

A side note to the side note: Cant understand the thing about WOW. Its a completely different but very great game. Im playing it since beta and from the start in a progressive raid guild. They found a great way between pvp and pve, casuals and pro gamers (and yes even for Blizz with multiple teams and high budget it took 2-3 years to get there...and i think that you dont have to reinvent the wheel over and over again).
You played WOW and didnt like it? Ok...but dont be that ignorant..others like it.
You played WOW but didnt managed to get to an serous playing? Well...dont be ignorant.
You never played WOW?....aeh...dont be ignorant.

I don't think this game or its developers are really worried about keeping casual players. … 24#3410224

Both of you are right. You because the game makes griefing too easy, and while we want it to be a harsh world, it's still just a game.

giving the dev's the benefit of the doubt, they know that making a harsh world is going to keep thier numbers low, because it does make it really difficult for players who aren't serious about putting in an effort.

Look around on the fourms, and you'll not only see me defending WoW but raging a little at its usage. I play WoW, I progrssion raid, and I like the game. People are lazy though, and instead of typing out what they mean, they just say go play wow.

So not to be lazy, and in the context that the devs are not looking to make a simple game;

Wow is a mass market game. They do as much as they can to balance the game for serious and casual players. They add little aura's into ICC that slowly make the Raid easier so that progression raiders can epeen about beating it but sill let the casual players enjoy the content later.

I don't think you're going to see that in this game; hence the continual and irritating reponse of Go Play WoW when agents bring up the issue of watering down the game or making it friendlier to casual players. I don't like it, a better meme would be "Get serious", but serious is harder to spell than wow so I doubt it will catch on.


I'd have liked to respond to the actual game issues you had, but everytime I tried you changed subjects.

*Some items may require special handling. Named Sensor modules will be transported on Ewar bots ONLY, the most secure method available!

*Not responsible for modules lost or damaged in transportation through beta Islands.