(21 replies, posted in General discussion)

Jita wrote:

Beta holds the following PVE benefits:

Better production
Better prototyping
Better reverse engineering
Better recycling
2X mission payout
Level 6 missions
2X ep payout
Better mineral spawns of every material (apart from strangely Titan)
Practically cost free repairing
Better NPC buy order prices for plasma
Level 2 taps can be used
Explosion damage can be used to complete taps (makes them a lot faster)
Artifacting loot is much better
Sap loot
Plants last longer and grow larger (good for noralgis)
Red and larger observer spawns
Red NPC caravans

So the benefits are clear. What's less clear is a) what do you spend the extra money on and b) is the benefit worth the beta station risk.

When black bots came out the benefit vs the risk of the (supposedly broken) mission mechanics were balanced correctly. Every beta 1 island had people regularly doing PVE. This could be the case again by balancing beta PVE properly and by providing higher cost and high end modules and bots so that there is something aspirational to own.

For most of what you listed ... doesn't Gamma provide the same benefits?  (Except for Beta specific Epriton, Mission stuff (including EP) ... ) 

I am not exactly an Expert at either as i'm sure you've figured out.  hmm

So, with proper colony management on Gamma, one would be able to have better of nearly everything you mentioned except the items listed above.  Unless ... Beta is still superior somehow ...



(21 replies, posted in General discussion)

The only benefit Beta holds now is Epriton.  Unless you have junky baes on Gamma ...

This 'inconvenience' should also be added to liquids on Alpha, they are far too large and yield far too much, therefore allowing players to AFK overnight to get EP and a small amount of resources.



(5 replies, posted in Bugs)

Annihilator wrote:
Ensireka wrote:

Why is it that they 'ignore' a fix that i would undoubtedly expect has removed players?  Well ... don't answer that ...

Why is it that when I have multiple targets on my list, as time when I destroy one, I lose 'main target' and it whines I have no primary?  Why doesn't it automatically switch to the next piece of scrap on my list?  why can't i shoot multiple bots at the same time?  sad

Just wondering ...


because you haven't checked the options that say "autopromote next target to primary"... wherever that was hidden.
that option is there, it works most of the times,
but often the game doesn't remember what target is supposed to be "next"

and you cannot shoot multiple bots at the same time, because esthetical reasons: your robot can only face a single target with its torso,
and even if the weapons could theoretically aim at different targets at the same times, the game engine cannot prevent weapons then facing impossible directions (like the left arm shooting at something at your left side, through your robots body.

in other words, look at mining and harvesting bots and how crazy multiple targets look there.

For the most part, it does give me a 'main target' ... just really dumb how when i have 8 unit's targeted, it refuses to see that and I have to manually retarget again ... wither with 'tab > space' or just 'space' if it's currently highlighted in the targeting computer' or 'click > space' or 'click > R' just to make sure.

I'm going to go on a limb here and say 'my targets are usually all in the same general direction'.  I can technically shoot 'through' enemies and hit units behind them.  Therefore, shooting more then one target at the same time seems logical.



(21 replies, posted in General discussion)

Goffer wrote:
Ensireka wrote:

The fact that Alpha 2's ore plots are 'large enough' is like saying 1 bite of your favorite food is enough ...

If you mine on a fresh ore spot on alpha2 you will have work there with 3-5 HM mk2 for more than an hour.
A single Bot will stay there half a day.
That is far more than "Just a bite".
I guess your problem are the squattered spots near Terminal.

My issue is the 'area' they take up is large, however, the amount you get per tile is small.  So, if the area was shrunk and the amount per tile was increased by the same amount ... people with higher skills wouldn't need to switch so often.  I'm thinking along the sides of 30% tile area reduction and 30% per tile increase. 

Wasn't there a thread about how laboring mining (not liquids) / harvesting was in the first place?  Compare ore's vs liquids, most people gathering liquids will never need to move while the field is there ...   



(21 replies, posted in General discussion)

Goffer wrote:

Ore plots on alpha2 are large enough unless you come there with 10 HM mk2 with maxed EP.

Why explosin damage means you are no longer save is obvious. And I see no need to introduce better assignments on alpha island.

The fact that Alpha 2's ore plots are 'large enough' is like saying 1 bite of your favorite food is enough ...

My idea proposes a smaller 'area' with a higher 'concentration' per tile.  Then, with the Alpha 3's, it would introduce time elapsed shrinking tiles.  Maybe Alpha 3's could have a higher plant growth rate ...

I'm not necessarily saying introduce better Assignments to an Alpha, more like a slight rework to the current system to give players something to work towards ... ofc, Gamma assignment's would be nice too ... a few terminals and more red's out there ...

So, my idea is that the standing / financial bonus for assignments could be lowered throughout, with the Alpha 3's taking a softer hit compared to Alpha 2's assignments and the Beta's getting the basic same standing / NIC gain as they have now, just with a higher available standing to reach ... you know, a GOAL.  smile 

Then, maybe they can introduce a better version of the 'Mercenary, Vanguard and Praetorian' robots that require 8.0 standing, +1.5b +current HM; which on purchase drops your standing with all opposing factions by 200 - 400 (will be flat rate, however, Dev's would need to decide what seems fair)

Just more content and goals ... that's it.


Annihilator wrote:

ensi - same dilemma as with robot colors:

the DEV have only a few robot meshes, and already started to make them look different by color coding MK1, MK2 and Elite versions.

paintjobs would override that.

same with weapon colors.
each ammo type has a defined color-trail or explosion. 

now giving player the ability to just change the color of the mining lasers FX wouldn't work...

I used to know how do do 3D modeling ... it's been almost 2 decades since I've even had a program to use. 

They need the ability to create different models.  We need to see models that are NOT based off the current ones, just pieces put together in a different order ...

Variety ... that's what it comes down to.  I wouldn't think paint would be so difficult to add ... but i'm most definitely NOT a programmer.


Rolafen Azec wrote:

Collateral has been invented. It takes care of can destruction mostly. You need to price ti so taht you are ambivalent about getting the good to the destiantion vs the collateral paying out. The existence of collateral does make people accept them at a lesser rate thought.

Agreed, we need a way to encourage private assignments.  Would be nice if they  gave standing (and would be abused) i'm sure ... I dunno. 

Just trying to think of a way to make them ... really beneficial to newbies or anyone that actually does the assignment.  Any ideas peeps?



(21 replies, posted in General discussion)

Rolafen Azec wrote:

With splash damage there is a risk that player will find a way to make other agents die even if directly locking and shooting at a agent is forbidden.

The difference between beta and alpha is fine if you just stick with trying to do beta. The difference is a bit steep but any "fix" is just going to try fight peoples scrubness.

I'll be honest ... didn't think of that.  sad   Great job Rolafen Azec

Bah!  lol.  Maybe they could do a flag of sorts ... no pve damage if you aren't combating the unit or buffing or repping ... or w/e that would be beneficial to the player. 

Maybe ...



(21 replies, posted in General discussion)

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Lets please add more islands to the game so you can have 1 island per person! big_smile




(15 replies, posted in General discussion)

Rolafen Azec wrote:

Price of decoders is largely market dictated. In order to never get a bad loot one would have to calibrate the contents with the market situation (which would be wrong on multiple ways).

Beta is an option and its even supposed to be because alpha doesn't dominate even with the downside of the occasional wtfpwned of beta. If players would rather whine for the developers to buff alpha loot than to venture to beta, we got a serious case of scrub on our hands.

Its fine that you first fix what naturally appers where and then let the market dictate what solo wolfs get compensated for the drops. Its not that you first fix what solo artifacters should be making and change the natural occorances to meet those expectations.

Are you implying that the value of an item generated by an artifact is driven by the price of the crap on the market?  Because, that's almost what it sounds like.  If not, get more clear.  I do NOT expect a pos LOW LEVEL level 3 decoder to be the ONLY piece of crap I get from a can ... EVER.  I expect more useless garbage!  Period! 

I'm saying, it seems in need of a little repair.



(21 replies, posted in General discussion)

Rolafen Azec wrote:

Don't need more Alphas, we need people to play on betas. If the core of the suggestion is that there needs to be a halfway between a alpha and a beta then that I could get behind. But I would even then just upgrade the alpha 2s to these "pretend betas". I do think the devs have expressed intentinoas to move to this direction.

I don't get what is the point about lack of terminals. If there is no PvP it not like their hiding place nature really matters. And if there are going to be field terminals most of their functionality would be provided anyway.

We do not need any added real estate and certainly not extended PvPless space.

The lack of terminals is to make it a place you don't have the ability to buy and sell, all the while making it a place you can't just hide from the NPC's.  It's a crash test in what Beta would be like.  So, people can get a taste of it, combat and the risks w/o having to worry about that added factor of Beta ...

So, in the end, I would hope it would help players get more comfortable to the idea of heading to Beta ... you know ... it may seem like garbage; but my thoughts and heart are in the exact right place.  Just saying. 

We know there are plenty of people that won't head to Beta ... work them in.  Coax them that direction. 



(27 replies, posted in News and information)

Line wrote:
Jita wrote:

What I would like to see is a racial bonus which reduced ROF by 75% and increased damage by 400%. This would make them glass cannons, give them a use in a pack and make shield fits viable.

What's the point in machine guns then? Why don't you just install EM guns instead?

Point of the MG is fastest cycle, that makes them incompatible with shield fits. Implementing the changes you propose will just turn MG's into differently looking EM guns. Why would we need that?

What if they used AC instead?  MG's actually kills faster then anything else out there.  However, if you throw t4p AC on, it plucks away slower then a t4P Mesmer Mk 2 with the same fit (as if used on a Seth Mk 2, only difference is the guns / bot combo, rest of gear is the same per standard fit for slots provided).

Maybe that's the thing ... give the new bots a bonus to Firearms ... but a better bonus to AC, NOT MG's.  I've been monkeying around with AC and they are terribly slow and their damage doesn't come close to the Mesmer AND their ROF is just a hair better (like .14, no noticeable difference except considerably less damage then the MG with same build).

Interesting side note : MG kills unbelievably fast and has 200 round clip. AC Kills considerably slower then the MG and Gauss and yet boasts a 180 round clip, Gauss has quite a bit less damage then the t4 MG with a lot less in the clip (25) ... rof makes a difference for the MG, but I feel the Magnetic Weapons need a boost in Damage or Clip Size. 

Who has a link for that 'combat nerf' I heard about?

Thanks for the ears peeps!



(3 replies, posted in Q & A)

Yea, I thought it was tunings ... but i'm not sure.  Ofc, if I strip down my bots and try to rebuild them I can't guarantee i'd find the other items that weren't linked to what we might consider appropriate Extensions. 

I'll just have to get prototypes ... more prototypes ... geeze.  It's all about the CPU ain't it?  lol

There is room to add more Extensions and items yet ... like cargo expanders ... higher level Tech items ... Higher level Bots ... larger bots ... more specialized bots ... bla bla bla


Rolafen Azec wrote:

but I have the hidden immunity idol...

Now with the fixed auras actual third parties can come and actually benefit from them. But just be careful not to end up feeding the furnace to please the northern gods.

I got the Word of God!  Woot!

I just wonder what happens when two opposing Corp's end up in the same place mining Colixium ... respect or regret?



(21 replies, posted in General discussion)

So, basically the ore patches are considerably smaller in area, but yield a LOT more materials.  (about 50% - 75% of Beta).  There would be NO liquids on Alpha 3's!

Perhaps we can introduce 3 new RARE Harvestable plants found only on Alpha 3's (one for each color)?  Or, the plants need to grow faster and produce more ... or ... just the beginning of this 'paragraph'. 

Miners and PvE'ers would also be targets of the now roaming RED npcs.  There would be NO static spawns, but there would be at least 1 industrial mech (not necessarily heavy) with the roams; we could use a way to get Industrial Kernels w/o these terrible beacons.  They would AVOID teleports ... some players just move too slow to be given a chance to escape REDS gate camping. 

Introduction to EXPLOSION DAMAGE!  So, it's like Beta, w/o the PvP aspect or Terminals or Epriton!

Up to level 5 with a minimum of 1 Standard Observer in each group.  The now industrial caravans would have a minimum of 1 Superior Observer and / or 2 Standard Observers.  Superior Observers would have a low chance to drop a CT of anything with a P of 5 - 10 (you can combine CT's ...)

No Terminals.  Though, there are Assignment locations.  Standing could now increase to level 8.  Level 7 relationship would now be on Alpha 3 (Delta) and level 8 on Beta could take it to level 9, but that would need to be Gamma.

Any rants and raves?



(38 replies, posted in General discussion)

Annihilator wrote:
Ensireka wrote:

There needs to be a worthwhile point for pvp I guess.  Just killing for hoots and giggles doesn't always cut it.  hmm

Ahhh well ... can't win em all right?


so, who do you meet when you go roaming for "PvP"?

  1. another pvp roam => pvp

  2. someone mining => a one sided fight or the miner runs because zero chance

  3. someone doing PvE => a one sided fight or no fight because the PvEer is not fit for PVP due to completely different requirements

now... if there is only ONE group roaming, PvP always ends in a negative experience for any encounter. for the first because it does not happen, the second and third one because either side ends up with a negative experience and feeling of totally wasted time.

and i totally forgot, the vocal player mentality for the last years could be summarized with these two oppositte statements.

  • every pvp encounter must result in an exploding player piloted robot
    (without a killmail there was no winner)

  • every pve encounter mustn't result in an exploding player piloted robot
    (without the loot you are left only with a loss)

Well, since you asked ...

Who do I meet for pvp?  You've likely heard of em ... Probes.  smile

When it comes to combat, unless I find a miner, i'm toast or barely make it away unscathed.  And I haven't seen any miners.

I'd rather pay ransom then lose my bot.  But people would need to honor it.  Just saying ...


ps NPC's just laugh at me when I ask them about it.



(15 replies, posted in General discussion)

I tell you what, in over 50 artifacts, I have only seen a couple level 3's (none were scientific or Observer beyond 2).

Tellesis ain't small.  So, to do that many artifacts ... geeze. 

One more thing ... why in the world would a level 2 Scientific toss out a SINGLE level 3 Decoder?  Ummm ... can we get loot tables adjusted? 

On Gamma, I got a level 3 Scientific and smacked in the face with a Scarab Mk 2 CT (150) ... that's actually logical.

I'm just saying, I understand it's risk vs reward ... but a level 2 Scientific should not just spit out a level 3 decoder  as it's ONLY reward! 

Maybe they need to go to level 5 on Beta and level 7 on Gamma ...

Ok, i'm done for now. 



(3 replies, posted in Q & A)

I don't know if I should have been surprised or not, however, when leveling Optimized Shield Usage, the CPU only decreases on the shield itself, not the Shield Hardener ... why?

There are other odd things that don't lower fitting requirements when you look that.  Optimized Engineering doesn't lower the CPU usage of the ... oh heck I can't remember what it was, but it seemed like it should since it's an engineering item .. bah!

If I stumble upon it i'll post it.  If anyone else happens to know what item's don't that seem like they should be please toss it (them) out there.


My issue is, how do you guarantee that people won't eff you over and destroy the can?  Didn't that happen by some prick when Private Assignments were first released?  Yes.  They destroyed like 16 cans.

How would you control this?  Making someone pay 120m for a can for a 500k reward?  People can be petty.  But people likely won't pay a fair enough transport fee.

Could we instead insta transport the items back to the starting point?  A way to protect the Assignment giver against the Assignment taker.


BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Jita wrote:

They are kind of fun, some of the guys were doing them on gamma but just for novelty. The payout needs fixing so bad

That T4+ doesn't drop itself ya know! big_smile

Especially when you can't kill the npcs.  >sighs<


@Gekko  :  Lawls



(18 replies, posted in Balancing)

I agree that the Velocity Nexus have now became what the Speed Boost Extension was, which forced them to remove it ... one can only hope this gets removed.  Or, they can just make it not equippable on any combat bot.  smile


Annihilator wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Plants grow randomly, there is no connection between their death and spawning.

As for minerals:

does your mineral respawn in reality work like you wanted it to?

DEV Zoom wrote:

the system periodically checks the overall amount of minerals on each island, and if this gets under a certain threshold value, a new mineral field will be generated in a random spot.

this translates into: the combination of some half-mined deposits and depleting a full deposit will result in an almost instant respawn of a new full deposit (according to player gossip)
so all that threshold does, is preventing the system from spawning a new deposit right away when you just start mining one, but ensures that there are always a maxium of "X" full deposits availiable 24/7

Someone once mentioned that a limit to resources would be a good idea, as like flora.  So, Once per day, fields would spawn and when that field was gone on that island ... none would respawn (EvE-arian view).  Now, I personally have a lot of respect for that idea, however, what if we went a slight step aside and did this :

Field spawns and slowly degenerates over time ...


Field Spawns and upon being depleted, a new field is produced at a random location at 75%
of the prior field's size and continues till nothing on the island.


Fields spawn smaller but containing approximately 25% of the initial deposit ...

You may ask, what about Assignments?  Well, assignments would create a SMALL field for the Assignment squad which upon Completion OR Abandonment OR Log Off would then be removed from the game.  When the assignment owner logs in, we can either have the field respawn at the prior location OR somewhere else ... you're choice.  (Would do the same for Harvesting.)

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

AOE harvesting? big_smile

I can't say i've actually thought of that, just the whole killing Nora plants that gets to me.

Why not make the scanner locate flora ... NOT Noralgis!  To do this, we could have a marker appear at the location of the closest plant (for 5 mins or until harvested, whichever is sooner) with a minimum of 1(or w/e) cycles available.  Harvesting is a pita already, so much driving around to find nothing ...

Just some odd but hopefully interesting ideas. 



(38 replies, posted in General discussion)

There needs to be a worthwhile point for pvp I guess.  Just killing for hoots and giggles doesn't always cut it.  hmm

Ahhh well ... can't win em all right?


Anyone played RFO (Rising Force Online aka RF Online)? 

My memory is a bit foggy in mah old age, however, you could deploy a mining tower to mine like 50-75% effective of the player.  So, it's not the first game something similar has been in.