They absolutely can! Maybe not solo, but people should just find a corp and make the leap. As in EVE, Beta isn't actually that dangerous to live in once you're there with a friendly corp or two around you. Even as a visitor to hostile islands, it's not that bad once you get the hang of it. There just aren't that many people on them.

If you legitimize risk-averse play as its own category (as opposed to letting it exist as a less-optimal style) a dual community evolves (as in EVE). PvEers will always be asking for more dynamic, exciting, and unpredictable content, essentially demanding that the devs recreate via AI something that already exists in PvP. It's never quite as good, though, and takes resources better spent on gameplay, interface, and graphics improvements. Best to just push people over the hump and show them it's no worse to lose your bot to a human than an AI.

I'm still totally okay with PvE content, just not separate from the open PvP. Missions as the main source of top-tier ammo is acceptable to me under those conditions, but not on Alpha (fine for them to get basic ammo via missions). The best stuff should always be Beta-sourced only. And I say that as someone who's (currently) an Alpha2 dweller.

For this reason, I really really wish AC would take a hard line on the boundaries of Alpha. Explicitly define them as newbie zones and not just safe zones. Then it's perfectly natural for things to be much better and more developed in Beta (which would be explicitly defined as Perpetuum proper) and the playerbase would evolve to suit that reality. Alpha zones can remain tiny (I'd prefer that even Alpha 2s become Beta) since it is expected by everyone that they're only there to let the nubs read 2 words of a tutorial w/o dying to a kaneswarm, not to provide a permanent home for the risk-averse.

I realize throwing anti-PvP types a bone will probably mean more subs, but it will forever play a huge part in determining the character of the game and player distribution (for both, see EVE).

That's not to say there should be no PvE, just no PvE without the ever-present risk of PvP. That right there cranks up the challenge and intensity of farming even the weakest spawns.

Very much agreed. It is possible to script something that simply cannot be beaten by players, though. If the proposed islands involved a constantly increasing opposition, such that any player force would eventually be driven off, then time spent farming would always be dependent on skill rather than one's tolerance for boredom.

I could easily do without complex, dynamic AI if the NPCs at least appeared slightly rational. Where they are and how they're fit makes zero sense in the current setup, though. The bot lore makes these guys sound like they're part of a shockingly advanced society, but the reality is they just gather in small groups and walk in circles. They aren't dumb wild boars, though. If there are mining bots, they should be where mining can actually happen and actually mining. If there are haulers, they should be travelling between places to haul from and to. If there are combat bots, they should be guarding plant/mineral patches, escorting non-combats, or generally roaming. These can be just as static as existing spawns, they're just in far more rational places.

This is the main problem with the themepark approach. At some point, the devs will just have to draw a line in the sand for "traditional" MMOGamers and say, "Whatever you think an MMOG should be, this is what PO is. Now stuff your cliched quest and loot table paradigms and let us build our game."

Good points.

There is the possibility that the end result would be much cheaper bots and equipment, resulting in a reduced cost to PvP, increased acceptance of silly losses, and thus more PvP overall. That this might be limited to the largest corps is problematic.

Also, PvPers still have to find ways to fund themselves. It's at least as likely that these islands would replace time spent farming lesser NPCs and artifacting. Most PvPers will PvP as often as they can afford to, regardless of how challenging PvE options are. I'd wager the added variety is a net benefit, even if some do reduce their PvP time.

Edit:

The tone of the post seemed to emphasize the danger and risk of the proposed islands, enough that the best approach would be smash and grab as opposed to establishing an extended presence. So if you're not scared of the exact proposal, boost the difficulty until you are. And by "scared" I just mean that anyone would really want to take time and prepare for an excursion, that costly losses would be guaranteed. But naturally the benefits would be worthwhile, and mitigating those losses would significantly boost the upsides.

Thanks!

I should also point out that there's no obvious reason something like this needs to be done all at once as part of a gigantic superpatch. I'd be more than happy to see them arrive piecemeal if that makes it feasible. I.e. Simple stuff (static gas clouds) to start, complex stuff (dynamic weather) when resources allow.

Good stuff. I might change a few things due to personal taste, but I'm very in favour of there always being parts of Nia that even the best players and biggest corps are terrified of. And when those are finally conquered and tamed, we should find that they lead to even scarier places.

Expensive death only demands that you be a little more careful. I wouldn't suggest that it necessarily be super hard, just that it be unpredictable. Knowing exactly which spots are safe and which aren't, or being able to recite the exact tank/DPS stats and fitting for a given NPC: that gets boring fast, especially when all the data tables are put online and even the thrill of figuring it out is gone. Satisfaction comes from overcoming challenges.

NPCs in PO are less than lemmings atm. They don't appear to have any motivation at all. Why is there always an EWar detachment sitting in the bottom of that pit? Why aren't that group of arganos actually mining anything? Where to their replacements even come from?

NPCs should act both individually and collectively to react to both the individual and collective actions of players. E.g. is a group of NPCs constantly farmed? NPCs respond by relocating or reinforcing.

More syndicate variants in general is probably a good idea to help the newest players along.

The ammo issue is best solved with a combo of helping indies reduce prices and dropping trial restrictions. Having to stop after 14 days is a big enough limitation.

Getting a certain amount of your choice of basic ammo when you take an assignment might work, too. But lvl 0-1 missions only, I'd think.

The best PvE would be AI that act like players:

• They act in rational (but not necessarily predictable) fashion. Escorted convoys travelling between destinations, miners and harvesters are actually gathering from actual sources, combat NPCs don't have set spawn points but react to player activity.

• Combat AI are smarter and craftier. They press you and chase you until you're dead if they can catch you, they give up if they can't*. They run or call in reinforcements if they're losing. They stage ambushes on vulnerable-looking players.

No warnings for big spawns. No "safe" spots, especially in Alpha2. Drop the average difficulty of the NPCs near newbie spots if needed. Content of groups would vary wildly (singles to large swarms), adjusted for fun/balance. Every player should be at least a little bit afraid at all times.

*"Training" is avoided, because the NPCs will only chase a player that they can actually catch and kill. This is not based on the speed the player pretends to move (reduced throttle or whatever), or the firepower they pretend to have, but what their bot is actually capable of.

If you're undercut by .01NIC, then you were overpriced by 0.01NIC. Stop tryin' to rip everyone off!

A) Can those of us who still have their original free reset be given the ability to use it without destroying our characters, then? That or even a couple days of being allowed to shift EP as per the new system.

B) EVE got me used to having spent training time fluctuate in value as game rules and item properties shifted, so I'm fine with not getting any reimbursements for mere rule changes. But it's a bit mad to announce to all your vets (and slightly-older-than-new players) about an "awesome" new skill adjustment system that they can't benefit from at all.