Arga wrote:

As far as increasing incentives for beta, we've been down this. The only thing at this point that increasing non-objective based rewards will do is make the current beta-dwelling corps even richer; it will do little to incentivize others to use the islands, because it's not 'reward' that's stopping them as was pointed out, it's just too much risk.

I didn't mean to frame it as increasing Beta incentives. If Alpha is kept small and crowded, then it actually matters much less whether Beta gets any explicit (i.e. coded in) advantages. That fact that you'd always be squeezing in between other players to farm or mine on Alpha, with no chance to forcibly push them elsewhere, would stand more as a matter of differentiation than an incentive one way or the other. Then you're always fighting with other players for resources no matter where you are. The question is only whether its a passive or active aggression.

Instancing fragments the game world, limits player choice, and inhibits emergence. Therefore, no instancing plox.

Underground areas would be cool though. Gotta deal with more complex walkmeshes and pathfinding or whatever, but you could add bot height to terrain limitations. Camera work could be a ***, too.

53

(23 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Cobalt wrote:

Then whats the point of having a vagabond with only 3 legslots, 3 chassis, and 5 head if all EW goes to chassis??

Oh come on... so go 3 head, 5 chassis.

Is the Ictus broken? It's EW. It uses misc slots for its EW. But it only has 3 misc and 3 heads; Kain has an extra misc. So is the Kain a better neut bot than an Ictus? Try to guess why not.

Were you raised by drones or something? Grow an imagination and join the conversation.

Something I've been thinking would be for AC to commit to not growing Alpha beyond what already exists. But keep adding Beta islands, of course. Then you get a sort of "stagnant homeland, but opportunity in the colonies" dynamic. Crowding will stifle Alpha, but higher populations will make it a major economic centre. Beta will be where you can build a better life despite the dangers: find untapped ore veins, uncontested spawns. The player movement will feel less artificial than that from boosting drop rates or something (IMO). And it's not an Alpha nerf, just a refusal to boost it ever again.

There's also an inherent downside to trying to quantify influence. The results is there are very few ways to actually get it, and it doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of who is the stronger power.

Better IMO to let people build where they want. Let intelligence be the determining factor: if the building and location is poor, you'll know because it doesn't yield the benefits hoped for, and you have a really hard time defending it. The reverse would be true of well-placed buildings. This not because a magical spot on the ground gives it better/worse numbers, but because of raw logistic and tactical considerations. How would you know who has "influence"? It's the corp who has all the buildings in an area.

56

(6 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

It just seems like you would need to gain a hell of a lot, bonus-wise, to solo even a smallish gang. But if all you want is to avoid them, that's already easy enough.

As I see it, your options are:

  • Massive bonus (+/- depending) to some combo of: DPS, HP, target size, masking, resists, bot bonuses, EW. This only in return for every trial restriction (see Line's comment). Though you'd need to have NPC orders added for non-trial gear.

  • Don't bother with any of this and try to go it alone within the existing rules. You can always put the restrictions on yourself. It's not like you get superpowers in RL for shunning community, and I'm not sure what the storyline justification would be for it in PO.

Edit: I don't think this will get you what you're hoping for. Every time someone sees you, they'll know you don't have help (because you can't). You'll get hunted down and pounded into dirt whenever you poke your head into Beta. The end result? Lone wolves become Alpha PvE superfarmer alts and little else.

Projectile weapon (AC and MGs) weight decreased significantly.
Green bot bonuses and slots shifted to fitting and using ACs.

/me spies ex-minmatar? It's okay... so am I *sigh*

Generally agreed on the post, too. Missiles should be neutral secondary weapons. All bots need to be viable (and not just as stepping stones). Whether you die should have more to do with meeting a counter to your fit, less with meeting someone that's older than you are.

The "focused" versions of existing bots that showed up in a dev blog (as Grim mentioned) look to go a long way toward your "creative counter" hopes. Combat in this game can only get better by borrowing core RTS concepts en masse.

It's an interesting idea, and would certainly be much more dynamic than the current model of either taking or not taking an outpost. But it seems to award defence and discourage offence (if I understood right). If I invade (entering their region) I get less benefit for a kill than my enemy does. If I defend, I get more for a kill than my enemy does. So the best approach is to camp your front line MSRBs and hope the enemy invades?

Bldyannoyed wrote:

Basically things, whatever they may be, that will really make you want to gain influence on the island.

This is the best part. And the core of what should drive any future change to PO. People need something to fight for.

PO needs a thatched roof and raider approach. Everything should be buildable and destructable. If I "invade" an outpost now, what happens? I stand around and stare at a building until maybe someone decides "Sure. What the hell, I'll fight you". But if I can start razing nearby buildings or steal stuff from them, my enemy has a strong incentive to gang up and drive me off. Maybe you'd rather be peaceful and defensive? Fine. But someone will love the idea of burning your little village to the ground, for loot or lulz. You gotta be ready.

Wow! Nice work! And big bonus for it actually looking quite pretty!

Minor complaint: mouse wheel for me on the right sidebar only works over the section headings and the scroll bar itself. It should work on the whole area. Edit: applies to the bot info popups as well. (Win7-32)

60

(40 replies, posted in General discussion)

Dazamin wrote:

New Alpha content isn't going to bring in more PvPers to create that content. A good system for fighting over and controlling beta islands and making controlling them worthwhile is much more likely to bring in players who want to PvP, get involved in player corporations and build their own robot empire.

Truth. Even anti-combat Alpha-dwellers will have to admit that without constant PvP happening somewhere, nothing else in this game will be worthwhile.

Player-built structures (all destructable), terraforming (all reversible), and another dozen islands. There's you population boom. Make it buildable, they will come.

Just gotta ask whether this would make people more or less likely to actually do things. Anything. hmm

What in this proposal offers incentives, and for what activity?
What in this proposal represents a net growth of opportunities?

62

(15 replies, posted in News and information)

Line wrote:

They really should be preparing something VERY VERY VERY nice smile

Walking in terminals? :trollface:

Srsly though devs, scheduled blog updates (2 weeks, maybe?) would be awesome, even if they have nothing in them but: "Heyo. Thanks for playing! The last big blog is still the relevant one, but I'm poking my head out to let you know we're on schedule and still working! Bye!"

63

(23 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Annihilator wrote:

well, i made somewhere a topic with the request to have most ewar modules in MISC slots instead of headslots.

Moving EW to misc slots would make some sense. Then you get a nice role distinction between slot types. I.e. heads are scanning and boosting, chassis is targeted stuff, legs are defense/mobility. Something along those lines anyway.

64

(18 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Rico Rage wrote:

I like the idea of not showing up on landmarks at all, but how about being able to target the bot if you see it, and maybe just giving the bot a 50% debuff or something, along with slower targeting lock time and reduced health. You could also limit module use to assault/certain bot types so as to prevent massive mech *** gangs showing up out of nowhere.  This could open the door to "gank" type stealth bots, that could maybe win small gang fights if they pick the right target/moment to strike, but will get OMGWTFBBQed if they are spotted since they can't run away and have reduced HP.

These would be great fun. Proper shock gankers. Total glass with a solid alpha punch. Full commitment.

65

(23 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

The main difference between your proposals and existing tuners is that you're proposing some tuners that affect head-slots. It doesn't by any means guarantee an imbalance, just that there would be some very different choices involved with fitting those tuners.

If you keep all the tuners as head-mounted, for example, then you've got head slot conflicts: (e.g.) an ECM+Tuner vs 2xECM choice. Each of those combos needs a role for the new mod to have any meaning. Alternately, you could move those tuners to other slots, but that again creates different fitting choices than with the current Arm/Head system.

Not that any of this is bad. I love variety, so I can definitely get behind this. big_smile

>.<

Hydroelectric dams could be fun. "It seemed a day like any other for the peaceful townsfolk of River Valley..."

i want power plants (player built) that when you attack em they blow up & deal a tone of AOE

God yes! AC need to mine the crap out of every RTS they can find for ideas like this. Someone give me Total Annihilation in MMO form and I'll never do anything else ever, taking only occasional breaks to hump their leg furiously!

lol Goldfarmer spam, post-fight smack, general trolling, scam adverts? Pass.

You wanna talk to locals? Go find 'em and request a convo. Alternatively, start your own series of island channels. Post 'em on the forum.

I think there's a way to send waypoints to people on your friends list, possibly your squad. Is that what you're looking for? R-click on a waypoint from the list in the map sidebar.

More scribble options (longer lasting lines, different location ping types, etc.) will start to require a much more complex interface, eventually turning the radar into a mini paint program. Could be really useful for coordinating terraform projects, perhaps. Not worth the complexity in the meantime, I think.

Hugh Ruka wrote:

You win the thread. I mean realy. The most intelligent post I've seen for a long time.

Wow, thanks! I had a hard time taking the plunge myself, but it's been worth it. Not just in EVE, but every game I've played since that has any multiplayer component.

Hugh Ruka wrote:

And where in your quoted part is the PvE ?? You know you can get all that in a 100% PvP game ?

And you get at the other end of the issue. PvP is not necessarily combat. A frequent point raised in the "other game" is that industry both supports PvP combat and is PvP itself. It's a little anemic in PO atm, but the markets will fill out and the traders will be at each other's throats as aggressively as the fighters are. They just can't measure their wins and losses in wrecked bots. Currently, they "fight" each other as the backbones of every competent combat force in PO.

As for this:

Ioci wrote:

Things etc.

None of this promises that every option is an equally viable path to Great Success(tm). Just like being the best damn Laird pilot ever won't make you super-rich or win you many admirers, though it's still a "viable option". There was also no promise that other players can't or won't interfere, or that you can do just fine without interfering with them yarr Peeveepee baby! It's everywhere!

70

(40 replies, posted in General discussion)

hmm Dude, take everyone's advice and read the damn blog already:
http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … er-part-1/
http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … er-part-2/
http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … perpetuum/

Just seems odd that high tech mechs can't really see all that far. The ability to zoom in would, I think, enhance a number of play-styles' experience:

  • Mobs are easy to see on radar from a significant distance, through mountains and obstacles. This isn't the case for plants. Harvesters might appreciate the ability to climb a hill and take a longer, closer look around the terrain.

  • Would add a second, inferior layer of info for scouts. Sure you can see that there' a small group of mechs way off in the distance but whose are they? and are there any more behind that building?.

Well, maybe that's all. hmm

Other notes: Since it's just a zoom on regular vision, it would be susceptible to fog, low light and obstacles. This adds more depth to its use as a scouting tool, and would provide additional tactical options for squad defense (certain terrain will be better vs. this). It doesn't enable landmarks or put things on the map. If a scout is to report, they have to use visual ques only for bot-types and interpret the terrain on their own to give locations/ranges.

Other options (take all or some as preferred): Make it a module, slow down mouselook when in use, different types to mitigate interference (nightvision vs. dark, thermal vs. fog), thermal/nightvision are that type only (i.e. need different modules for each type), variable zoom, old-school black binocular vignette for zoomed views, some visual cue that makes opposing scopers able recognize each other as scopers (bonus pts. if the bot actually looks like it's standing up and using a telescope. And with a big eye on the end like in cartoons! tongue )

Thanks for reading!

72

(106 replies, posted in News and information)

gangbang XY will 100% sure visit this spot in the next 60 minutes

Adapt. Maybe don't do the can+sequer thing, maybe use a detector, maybe bring a newb buddy to scout. Just 'cause it's not the same as on Alpha doesn't mean it won't work at all.

Yeah a noob farms low lvl NPCs on a beta island with all the risk instead of an alpha island ... not.

It wouldn't be the only draw. It just mitigates a possible deterrent (perception that there's nothing a newb can do on their own). To make it an actual incentive, you could reduce Alpha to only sub-mech or lvl0-1 spawns.

73

(57 replies, posted in Balancing)

Rico Rage wrote:

This is a different topic entirely though, and I'd hate to lose this discussion within this thread, so maybe I'll start a new thread with ideas on how to merge the PvP and PvE populations within the game.

Agreed. Sorry, folks!

On topic, I hold to the idea that the best of the best equipment should (a) not be sourced at all in Alpha, and (b) not even be usable on Alpha. ("a" at least) As regards ammo, this could leave assignments as the sole source, but they'd be Beta assignments only. Maybe divide the faction ammo into 1st and 2nd tier and just have the very best on Beta, the lesser stuff in Alpha.

My main complaint (which I've either mentioned here or elsewhere) is that what PvE-only types consider to be an improvement to PvE is inevitably something that moves it closer to the feel of PvP but without it actually being PvP.

stEVE examples would be Sleepers and incursions: PvEers were begging CCP for rats that acted with more tactical intelligence, appeared in less-static and less-predictable forms, appeared to have motivations beyond standing around waiting to be killed, were occasionally overpowering, dropped better loot, represented a greater risk, etc. etc.

Every single one of those things is already and automatically there in PvP. There is just (among certain people) some massive psychological wall such that getting all this from an AI is heaven, and getting it from other players is total hell. In the meantime, devs end up spending countless person-hours recreating something the game already has. Then I have to wait yet another year for devs to get around to sprucing up graphics, expanding the world, and improving on the actual gameplay.

@Johnny/Arga: I've no problem at all with there being safe spots. But they shouldn't be places you can spend your whole game life without being bored to tears.

75

(2 replies, posted in Q & A)

The real question is why the same mission can even exist twice! tongue

Srsly though devs, you guys are great big_smile