76

(8 replies, posted in Resolved bugs and features)

Alexander wrote:

Could you please add an FAQ to the forums on error codes and what they mean?
E.g. Error codes for payments. Error codes for client crashes and what runtime errors means.. ect..

Do you want them to list all the possible codes for all the possible cases? Depending on how they handle unexpected situations, that could actually be a list of tens of thousands or codes!

77

(126 replies, posted in General discussion)

Xianthax wrote:
Sharp wrote:

The tracking in eve is more advanced at the moment, this game dosn't take into account speed, range or angle of approach when calculating hit chance or damage. But you are right with the balancing, adjusting how lock times are done would hopefully give smaller bots more time to bridge distance gaps aswell as making ewar more useful in keeping them alive longer.

Likely will never happen in perpetuum, calculating those values in response to the speed that WASD movement allows is very compute intensive.  Computing them in eve with ships that change direction as a result of very slow control input is much cheaper.

Those values are not computed when you change speed/direction. They are computed each time your turret fires a round. Therefore how often you change speed/direction is irrelevant, how often your turrets fire is what counts. Besides computing them is actually pretty cheap computationally.

Xianthax wrote:
Pak wrote:

That's why you should use the hardware clock and not the OS clock.

While entertaining this is extremely slow and reliant on the response time of the handling interrupt.

You are referring to the very old RTC. I was referring to modern hardware and the HPET. But a friend told me why it is probably not being used: it is not supported by Windows XP. <shrug>

79

(29 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Attributes in Perpetuum do not work the way they work(ed) in EvE. In EvE rising an attribute has a 'diminishing returns' effect. In Perpetuum it does the opposite: each new attribute point gives you more saving than the previous.

Therefore, if you are an industrial, no matter how slow your combat training is, if you were given a chance to boost an attribute, it should be your highest attribute (probably an industrial one).

Of course if they give us the possibility to boost ALL attributes, then we do want to do exactly that: boost them all. But given a limited choice, the highest one is the one to boost. Unless you know for sure you are never ever going to train anything with that attribute any more (not even the extensions that do not yet exist in the game at the moment).

Honestly, you are actually a little young. When I was your age I was still playing theme parks like WoW. And it was before aliens landed on Azeroth.

Norrdec wrote:

Could this be another thing connected with bugged gbf file? (or whatever it's called? sorry not at home). Try to delete the biggest file in your game folder and download it again with the client.

Besides the fact that I play on a Mac therefore my "game folder" is nothing like what you think it is, I do not think it's the gbf file. It's not systematic. It looks pretty much like a pointer getting the wrong value.

I do suspect it to be an unrelated problem because the main crashes seem to be due to an out of memory condition while the background bug of the radar seems to be something wrong within a shader or some other GPU code. But I do not have sufficient knowledge of the game code to judge for sure.

Xianthax wrote:
Pak wrote:

Client lagging has nothing to do with clock drifting. Clock drifting on modern hardware should be absolutely negligible even over a long playing session.

Drift is really not negligible and is in fact an issue on many systems, whether its the issue in this case, only the developers know. 

Modern hardware has nothing to do with this, unless you running on a real time kernel your clock is wrong and drifting all over the place with the exception of when your NTP daemon runs.  Windows is particularly bad at this and can be off multiple seconds per minute under heavy CPU load.

That's why you should use the hardware clock and not the OS clock. But I agree that windows may be stupid enough to update the hardware clock with borked OS values.

Anyway there are multiple solutions for that too. Also an MMOG by definition is networked at least to the game server: resyncing requires just a few bytes.

Besides: the client is updating the available EP count according to the local clock, not according to the server clock despite the fact that it does have knowledge of the server clock. THIS is the bug.

Rodger Wilcoe wrote:

+1 for items being traded disappearing from your hanger. Makes it hard to know if I've dragged it across or not for large trades.

Mouse Tiger - I think yours is a separate issue which needs a separate thread. Good find though.

It may or may not be related. The fact that the offered items eventually appear in the other hangar may in fact impact the ability of the code to distinguish objects that exist and those that do not.

+1

Also remove from the hangar the items I offer when I offer them (and put them back if/when the transaction is cancelled).

I'm having frequent (at least once an hour) crashes. Not doing anything special: I'm a noob and have never been on any beta yet (not even on the new alfas!).

Most of the crashes happen wen zoning (docking, undocking, teleporting) or when there's a map or radar related activity (open or zoom the map or the radar).

I think that the map/radar crashes and the zoning crashes are separate problems, however.

A few times (but this happens rarely) the radar background behaves erratically. When this happens the dynamic info is allright but the background isn't. Sometimes it'all white, some other times it shows random bitmap data. Zooming out generally fixes it. But zooming back in triggers the problem again (sometimes showing different random bitmap data but eventually ending up with a white background).

Here's an example of the bugged radar showing random bitmap data as background.

86

(51 replies, posted in General discussion)

If your ticker is not OHGOD I do not trust you.

oh, wait ..

Kobodera wrote:

How hard could it be?

Go to a station with both chars, check current prices, put the round up. Check prices again. Buy. Transaction complete.

I dont know if you can do it today, but we sure as hell pulled it off back then.

It's not hard. Just not guaranteed to work.

For best chances you want to use a cheap item that has very low market activity overall and also do the trade in an off-hand station with very little market activity. Only the selling (main) character needs to be there (in fact if it has trading skills it doesn't even need to be in that station as long as the item itself is there), the trial character can be anywhere in the same region (even in space).

It is doable. But there's no guarantee it'll work as anyone could screw your trick by buying out your sell order or undercutting it. If you are trading a few hundreds of millions of isk, that's not a problem. But would you take the risk for, say, 50 billions?

The problem is if the trial is being used to launder money or do RMT. Normal gameplay within the 14 days time limit will not impact the economy. The limitations are not supposed to make money transfer impossible, just to make them slightly unreliable so that the risk is not worth it if the amount is huge.

88

(14 replies, posted in Resolved bugs and features)

Annihilator wrote:
DEV Gargaj wrote:
Raavi Arda wrote:

When opening the map you can actually see the JPEG being loaded as progressive and it's bad... very bad.

Btw, no wink

ouch... just like google maps loading a huge jpg... right?

AFAIK 'no' in the sense that the maps are generated (computed), not loaded as jpegs (and surely not loaded from the network like google maps).

Annihilator wrote:

-DEV Calvins comments about this topic in IRC

More info, please.

Norrdec wrote:

So it couldn't be something else than a bullet?

It could be something worth 100M, but that would defeat the purpose. It could be something worth a small value, but than it would be the same as a bullet.

Your best bet would be an item of low value and do the trick in a station where that item is not being traded. This, in a developed market like the one in EvE is possible but difficult. And by game mechanics you never ever have any guarantee: all it takes is one player posting a sell order that undercuts your one (if you sell for a huge amount) or, if you sell for the correct price, buying out your sell order (this can even be done remotely). If any of this happens, the trial money will go to some other player instead of your main.

Norrdec wrote:

Still the explanation why we don't want less limitations is clear.

If that explanation is that the game is very young and the economy is underdeveloped, then yes. Sort of clear.

With a more mature economy there would be absolutely nothing a trial would be able to do that could ruin the economy. The only two reasons for limiting trials would be incentive to subscribe and preventing money laundering (AKA RMT). Access to the market (if the market mechanics are changed to be like the ones in EvE) would not be a problem.

Kobodera wrote:
Norrdec wrote:

"This way the huge mechs would still be able to do MASSIVE damage to anything it hits, but facing a small nimble bot would result in a lot of misses, thus thwarting the "bigger is better" aspect a  bit." This already is in place smile

Sweet Pie big_smile

As far as I understand it, it is in place, but not the way you think it is. In other words it's not based on "tracking" and the (angular) speed of the opponent.

Kobodera wrote:

Well, another guy put a single round of ammo up on the market for 100m and the guy with the tiral account he bought it. Viola. 100m transfered from a trial account to a full account.

This would be possible in Perpetuum due to an almost virgin market with nearly no movement and due to the market mechanics.

You say it happened in EvE and that is very hard to believe. In EvE if you put up a single round of ammo for 100m you lose the broker fee and that's about it. The trial account would not be able to buy it unless you found a station where that specific ammo was not traded by anyone and there were no sell orders at all (hardly possible in EvE).

In fact the way to transfer trial money to non trial accounts in EvE would have been to put up the ammo for a very low price, not a high one. That could have worked, but you'll always be at the risk of someone else buying your sell order out or posting an undercutting sell order a split second earlier than your trial account buying the ammo, in which cases your trial account money would in fact end up to someone else.

Therefore: possible but risky operation if done correctly, nearly impossible if done the way you describe it.

1) we are not talking of synchronizing the game (nearly impossible due to lag and jitter), but of synchronizing clocks (possible up to the 1/2 of the systematic difference between up and down packet routing times).

2) to solve the problem the OP has seen we do not need exact synchronization. All that is needed is that the server clock on the client is guaranteed not to be ahead of the actual server clock (and this is the easiest thing to do when handling remote clocks, you do not even need a synchronization formula or protocol).

It worked for me last time I checked (last week).

Yep. It is somewhat synchronized, but it's not über precise. Anyway as long as they change the client to update the available EPs according to the server clock and they make sure the server clock, as kept by the client, is not ahead of the real server clock things will be allright. Small differences between the server clocks of different clients are not a problem, as long as they are all are behind or identical to the real server clock.

Annihilator wrote:

your expecting it to be a synchro issue... i supect it to be a simple rounding-display issue...

some extensions calculate with xxxx.5 - but are displayed either rounded up, or rounded down (i havent figured out why)

They display rounded down. And if they require more than what is actually displayed, that is a bug (a different one).

There however is a bug with the clocks. Not a synchro bug, but the client is updating the available EP count when the local clock times the minute instead of updating it when the server clock times the minute. Since the client already has both clocks available, there's no reason not to use the server one instead of the local one.

Once they fix this and use the server clock instead of the local clock, then a sync problem may surface. But that's easy to fix too (my suggestion being to intentionally set the server clock, as kept on the clients, one second, or a fraction thereof, later than the actual server clock).

Client lagging has nothing to do with clock drifting. Clock drifting on modern hardware should be absolutely negligible even over a long playing session. In any case it can be measured and corrected for. Also re-syncing requires such a small number of bytes on the net that they could just re-do it periodically.

Anyway I just noticed that the client actually does get the server time already, but it increments the "available" EP count on the minute of the client clock, not on the minute of the server clock, so this is actually a bug and it should be pretty easy to fix as the server clock is already available to the client.

Extra hint: intentionally offset the server clock value, as kept on the client, by one second (or a fraction thereof) and update the EP count on this offsetted clock minute instead of using the client clock as is currently the case. There'll never be this problem any more, you do not even need to care too much of precise syncing, jitter, systematic bias due to differing forward and backward routing, drifting etc. etc.

Norrdec wrote:

It's not really a bug, more like a mechanic to decrease the traffic between the server and the client. Working as intended.

All is needed is a few small packet exchanges when the client starts. Hardly a traffic issue.

DEV Gargaj wrote:
Depp wrote:
Surge wrote:

But you'd be wrong. It isn't PO. If anything, it would just be P.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/

Looks like the put the wrong name in the url too. Might want to complain to management. Make sure they know that it's just "Perpetuum".

http://www.perpetuum.hu (yes it's a redirect for boring and complicated reasons)

Maybe you should have done the redirect the other way around and used perpetuum.hu or perpetuum.eu as the main site.

Norrdec wrote:

The EP is counted in 2 spots. One is the internal server clock, the other (the EP you see) is you computer.

Yup. That's where the bug is. They did not correctly synchronize the local timer to the server clock or, worse, are using the local clock instead of a timer.