Gremrod wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
Line wrote:

Btw not a word about Armor Nexus changes. Will it change to provide resist bonuses?

The underlying system would need to be changed so that's delayed for now. I tried to do it, but as the system is set up now, it's not possible. It would need 4 separate nexus effects for all 4 resists, and that by itself would max out the 3 effect limit on one robot.

No way to have a single module apply 4 different effects? big_smile

no OBVIOUS way it seems because of internal implementations of mechanic. however...

instead of directly increase each armor resists, Nexus could increase some kind of multiplier (M) which is, in default, be 1. then, robot can have 4 additional params - let's call them multiplied resists (MR) - total non-nexus resists (NNR) multiplied by M. those MRs should be used in incoming damage calculations and should be shown to player instead of NNR, which, in their turn, can be completely hidden

So what's next, mr. Zoom?


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:

You havn't tested much have You?

I could have debunk all You said but I'm done arguing Theory vs Fantasy.

I've done enough tests to make conclusions. I've also found issues and counters to solve them. Did you do the same? Did you ever tried to think? Or 26k% on your spreadsheets is too much for you?

Anyway, just stay Alpha if you're so scared. No problem at all.


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:

Thats a cool story. But I have another one.

A 6-tuning Joe took a vaga friend with double RSA and rolled over everyone else.

The End.

Oh, and that vaga friend is immune to ECM/Supessors? Or maybe he makes 6-tuning Joe immune with those RSA?

Or maybe they both are invincible and cannot be shooted from long distance?

Or maybe they two together prevent their enemies to bring some friends too?

And what about Energy Transferers? Vaga friend alone will be too busy providing double RSA. Will you call another friend? Or will you call Riveller friend instead?

How many friends will you need to call to be able to perform such a one-shot kill? What prevents all those people, grouped togehter, to insta-kill players with "common" fits?

Everything could be imba if described as X + friend.


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

god thanks 99% of the pvp matches are out in the open,
not around a teleporter or a terminal, so situations where one guy with huge alpha strike, double'RSA and fast-lock nexus supported, is standing there, and random guy is still watching a timer go down until he can be locked,to decide what to do in those 2 seconds he has before the screen turns dark again.


btw, i hope you guys use the time with this balance to get rid of unwanted gamma buildings....

so? don't store all your assets on one station on beta, pay more attention when TPing, undock with Arkhe first, guard your island, or revenge with camping your enemy. like noone before could catch you on TP or under the station

the whole idea is fine, it just need some finetuning, like more hp for big bots, more hp plates to add, more surface size for big bots and more dispersion/explosion size for big guns


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:

Field? What field? Oh you mean those computed pixels on a screen that use patterns and calculations to move and shoot each other? Wait... Are you saying computers started using different - better mathematics?! RUN! EVERYONE RUN!

you've should start from that. we are simply playing different games. mine is Permetuum, and yours is Spreadsheets Online

but don't be shy, here, let me show you everything on dolls

Oh hi kids, I'm Mr Seth. people are calling me 6-tuning Joe, because I'm strong and can one-shot everyone! look how strong I am!

but wait a second, what's that? it takes whole 8 seconds to lock a target from me, and I have just 85 Ew Strength so Evil Vagabond can perma-jam me! no no no NO NO THIS IS SO WRONG!! I have to deal something with that! here, let me see...

done! look at my new shiny 2x Sensor Amps! do you like how they shine? with them, I can lock whenever with just 2.84 seconds! now go try your ECM on me, I will relock faster than you apply them!...wait, where is my damage gone? I NOW CAN'T ONE-SHOT STUFF! and I heard an Evil Zenith can put 2x Sensor Supressors on me negating my Sensor Amps... with that I will suffer from Evil Vagabond's ECMs again! UNACCEPTABLE!

Look at mee, Evil Vafabond, LOOK AT MEE! with those 235Ew Strength provided bu 2x ECCM, I'm now IMMUNE to your ECMs!...why are you looking behind me and laugh? WHAT? Evil Zenith again, he jammed me and it now takes AGES to lock something, even if Evil Vagabond didn't jamming me! also, no damage again....oh bite me!

hi Evil Vagabond, hi Evil Zenith! I have some special surprise for you... like THIS!!! 2x Sensor Amps with 2x ECCMs will be my shield against you. now you can't stop me to one-shot stuff with my.... 1070% damage??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

here, I hope this little kids story will help you to undestand your "maths" better


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:

If 2xSA makes You vulnerable to ECM then we are done talking.

It doesn't. Heavy Mechs are ALREADY vulnerable with their 85 Ew Strength

Mroq wrote:

Next time you see them Ewar mechs go solo - BEWARE!

Next time you see them Ewar mechs go solo - lock them and double-supress them

Mroq wrote:

Do you want to know how much more dps were mesmers doing over seths with gauss before both tuning patches? 5.13%
How much more DPS were Seths doing with lasers over mesmers? 42.42%

Seths were doing more DPS with Gausses than Mesmers even at time when we had Epriton on gammas. Are you sure you played the game before this patch?

Mroq wrote:

1. Tunings cant be more than racial bonus (unless point 2 and 3). (+10% damage and -10% cycle time = 22.22% dps increase)

currently tunings doesn't affect cycle time

Mroq wrote:

2. Blue combats need -1 leg and +1 head slot. And this is not a very recent issue.

with that, they will become OP because magnetic weapons are already having the biggest Alpha. the only reason Seths are better is because 1 extra tuning they can fit

Mroq wrote:

3. With lowest head slot count syndicate combats are bad, really bad. (they were ok when tunings were utterly useless just before this patch). I would go with more headslots on par with others and lower leg slots to make them more squishy becouse its not MK2.

the only thing I can agree

Mroq wrote:

4. Active repping fits are unviable again.

oh god they nerfed ERP-tank again lol

Mroq wrote:

5. PvE is really fun now so I wouldn't go down on DPS all that much.

It became as easy as it was before previous balance patch

Mroq wrote:

6. Please stop going from one extreme to another.

it's not extreme, it's not even bad, it's just you too excited of maths and the numbers

Mroq wrote:


practical experiments showed that having more than 3 tunings doesn't worth unless youre in a big party. but even then it's more or less counterable.

such a Seth with 6x tunings and LCL lasers (not even Gauss) does one-shot NPC mechs up to 3lvl (didn't had anything bigger nearby), but it goes completely dry in just 5 shots. so to feel comfortable you would need something like 2 support bots with 4+ energy transferers each, probably giving you RSA as well, and probably an another support bot with remote repairs. Such a Seth, on other hand, can be double-supressed by a Zenith to negate RSA effect, and then perma-jammed by a Vagabond. one extra Vagabond can deal with support bots.

does that worth it - to brin such a Seth? I doubt so. Well, maybe for base sieges.

so in most cases ppl wolud fit up to 2-3 tunings which is ok.

my opinion though, big bots could have more HP, more surface size and more dispersion values on their guns - to compensate that higher damage on each other and to negate it even more to small bots. armor plates, with mass increased, could also provide more extra hp proportionally to mass increase

syndicate bots should either have 1 extra head slot or bigger bot bonuses for firearms because curently they are weak

also to fix that Seth stronger than Mesmer I would suggest to allow only fit just racial and syndicate tunings on bot

also to make Mroq calm down, I would suggest to limit number of tunings equipped by 2-3 max

Mroq wrote:

On an end note:
If one does not comprehend mathematics one should not post in topics involving numbers.

Maths are on paper. bots are on field. whatever you theoretized here we can reproduce


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:

I dont go out solo in heavies. They are not meant for such purpose.

Single Vaga support with dual remote sensor and that assault and whatever else came along is gone before able to jump the teleport back.

And if we are talking solo counters then dual sensor amp and 2 stabilisers and that assault is in the world of pain.

It is so easy to point counter fits.

[EDIT] A very, very similar game is called "spreadsheets in space" for a reason.

aaaand here we started "what-if"

of course you don't go solo, same as your enemy doesn't. and of course you can put 2xSA on your head, but then it's not 4000% dmg and you're still vilnerable to ECM. you also can put 2xECCM to counter ECM but that takes 2 more tunings out. and if X then Y and so on.

but then I should ask you why on earth you're swinging here your 6xtunings gauss Seth vs assault here?
practically you will never see those two fighting 1 vs 1


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Oh text pvp huh?

2 supressors and 1 ecm on an assault mk2 reducing your 73.79% chances close to zero. How long it will take for your Seth to lock me being double-supressed? How many times my ECM will reset your lock while you're trying to relock me? heh, I don't even need ECM, being double-supressed you will lose your lock with ease simply by distance.

once again, your numbers work only on paper. if you managed to one-shot an npc or two, that doesn't mean real players will act the same.


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:
Line wrote:

theorycrafting and "what-if" stuff doesn't really work.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed, preferably using a written, predefined, protocol of observations and experiments. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of knowledge.


Indeed. However, theoretically, you can one-shot up to 5 heavies with your Seth, but practically you will probably loose to one assault.


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

with that, you will have just around 5 alpha-strikes then empty. practically, it's useless in both PvP and PvE

UPD: but yes, you can one-shot something if full-tunings. theoretically big_smile


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

yes, practically, you will see LWF fitted bots with 30% less hitpoints by default, and ofc, the example was with the combat heavy that has by default the most hitpoints and highest kinetic resists.

meaning: any other non-armor fit is DEAD after one or max two volleys. you could start theocrafting how many hits from a single gun a lwf fitted assault will take:

= max 1

given that there is now a chance that those guns miss, it still takes only a single hit from one of the 6 magnetic guns to explode. if you fit armor plates, you surface size will grow and the chance to get hit with it.
as a result there is no way around stacking uni-hardeners or shields.

and that because the example was using UDC (Universal Death Charge?) slugs that simply deal all damage types...

i think you're somewhere wrong in your nembers.

If says a mesmer has hypotetic 1000% damage per gun, using pure kinetic ammo with says 50 kinetic damage, it makes 500 kinetic damage per gun, 3k total

that's pure damage, no resists, etc

let's now take it more realistic - 1139% damage per gun and UDC ammo

22*11.39 = 250.58*6 = 1503.48
10*11.39 = 113.9*6 = 683.4
10*11.39 = 113.9*6 = 683.4
10*11.39 = 113.9*6 = 683.4

, which makes total of 3553.68

I would hardly call it a one-shot

*little hint: 1139% of bonus doesn't mean that you have to multiple on 1139, divide it by 100 first, because it's percents

Too rarely to use, why would you need that?


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

basically, noone gonna deploy an empty seth against your mesmer so you never will see such a one-shot, that's it. theorycrafting and "what-if" stuff doesn't really work.


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:


W - when?


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Annihilator wrote:

well, it may be one-shot killk... if you fit all legslots with stabs to actually have all 6 guns hit, given the dispersion

Seth Mk2 with 6 EM tunings, 6 Gauss and 6 Stabs would be extremelly popular indeed


(73 replies, posted in Balancing)

Mroq wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

does it really matter if the efficiency goes below a factor of 1?

  It would matter for every fight that lasts more than few seconds. Remember that efficiency ratios scale exponentially.

  With 50% dmg increase 6 tunings would increase DMG to 1139% how many robots can survive a volley like that from heavy mech? Accumulator consumption 170%^6 would be 2413% so it would probably be a "one shot wonder" build.

  Now dont get me wrong. I'm all up for having a "killall" robot 1 shooting stuff and running to a group of energy transfer "buddies" for refill. Group of shooters taking out first few targets before the battle even begins. I'd love to have a bunch of heavies on teleports sweeping anyone who decides to have a peak. But will it help the balance?

  PvE now is kind of weird. You let them high end npc shoot a few times and then they just sit there shooting a single gun every now and then.

  I also have to say that i like how current situation encouraged active tanking builds and variety of head slots. Weapon tunings needed rebalance not removal tho.

  Another thing that I would like to point out (that became prominent with recent changes) is the difference in efficiency between small and medium modules. With such drastic tuning changes we might begin to see heavies with light weapons (we already use small miners, harvesters and repairers).

Just FYI: 1139% DMG isn't "one shot" even for Mesmer. Practice, my friend, practice!


(10 replies, posted in Bugs)

oh my bad smile

Actually, he want to prevent med plates usage on assaults


(10 replies, posted in Bugs)

Your one is next to screenshot. Mine is next to EP. So it juss puts this button no matter what type of record in event log is, but works only for screenshots? If so, can you somehow remove it from non-screenshot records because it'svery confusing? Ofc it's never close to top-priority.

Btw not a word about Armor Nexus changes. Will it change to provide resist bonuses?

But you have to do something with big bots survuveability vs lights, otherwise everyone will roam with 100500 lighs/assaults and meks/heavies will turn into anti-building bots

Your ^%##$%^ of a %$^$%&$^%$, why on earth #$%#%%$#%#$ you little $%^#%^%$^



(10 replies, posted in Bugs)

Seems we don't understand each other. Those buttons, they are right thee, at the event log. And once I click one, no matter which, it does NOTHING. No popups, no screenshot uploads, no coffee, NOTHING. Whis part I don't understand?