Re: Gamma revamp testing

"To total terraforming charges spent in relationship to the base tile. ---(island development)"
do you mean a island-wide total? If so, I am against this step as it could be abused. If not island-wide, "To Terraforming +/- from the base tile" is enough.

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177 (edited by Cassius 2014-05-16 14:19:20)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Norrdec wrote:

"To total terraforming charges spent in relationship to the base tile. ---(island development)"
do you mean a island-wide total? If so, I am against this step as it could be abused. If not island-wide, "To Terraforming +/- from the base tile" is enough.


Yes I do mean island wide.

And to clarify, it should be a limit on how much tiles are changed from their original base. This means you couldn't simply raise every tile to its max + value, for example.

The reason I suggest an island limit is to prevent infinte terraforming over the entre island. The limit forces you to concentrate most of your terraforming in the areas you plan on living or defending. And prevents you from spending all terraforming in a bid to wall the island off .... which wouldnt be possible anyways.

Abuse would be, max this and "lock" terraforming to prevent offensive operations. Solution would be to allow a different rapidly eroding terraform charge that would allow attackers to breach walls, and then allow them to "de-terraform" locked areas to assault other base areas.

So to expand on this ... 2 types of charges ... base building that is capped per island to prevent inifnte urban sprawl, and combat charges, which are used against bases and dont count against island caps.  The sole purpose of the combat charges are to prevent impregnagable bases. The cost of the combat charges should be higher, making them cost efficient to breach a base but not feasible to level or terraform a base. Once a base is breached  then regular charges could be used to de-terraform the rest of it, if the successful attacker so chose.

Norrdec I just thought of the 2 charges as a possible solution to your abuse concern. Because you raise a good point

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Terraforming should not be the go-to method for constructing castles.

Multi-tile walls and gates are the solution.

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179 (edited by Cassius 2014-05-16 14:21:51)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

What is wrong with terraforming walls, but adding or installing a gate structure? Terraforming already allows neat straight walls if the player puts the effort in. Why is this bad?

Also, you can put structures on top of terraformed walls. if you introduce multi tile wall structures, are you going to allow structures on top of them? This will only force an entire new set of code to put a structure on another structure. Why, when a system already exists?

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Because the entire system is a ticking timebomb that will explode the moment someone figures out the next "creative use of game mechanics" method of getting perfect X.

A multi-tile wall on the other hand, is a finite construct that doesn't revolve around player design. I love the idea of terraforming, but I'd bet a pretty large sum on there being quite a few intelligent people already working out the "metagame" for the new terraforming.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

People max things all the time. I have the best armor tanked bot in the game.

You have a counter. The game rolls on. If you push something to the extreme in one area, you will gimp it in another. Thats the point of my proposed ceilings. You need to figure out a balance that works for your skills.
Everyones is different.

Most of what is currently suggested imposes such limitations so that only one type of base will be optimal, and every player will build that base.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Syndic wrote:

+1 it would be nice if you took the time to build your own version Zoom.

I think it's also important to mention that once this gamma-stuff is hashed out, there CANNOT be another "oh we're moving from 1km to 2km in 3 days" fiasco, or some obscure "2d/3d blabla" patchnote that just happens to invalidate every existing design. This needs to be fleshed out and perfected as much as possible on the test server, no matter how long it takes.

+1 to you and Tux.

DEVs create the island and build a base on the test server. Then us players can come and attack it????

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Annihilator wrote:
Gremrod wrote:

Zoom,

Can an island be made up of small parts like this: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1AUX … sp=sharing

Sorry about my crude drawing.

nice drawing, looks like a perfect place to camp a teleport


It was only an example. smile

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Also something I think they need to focus on before gamma. Get your servers moved out of your current location and to a better data center and ISP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

I will build a base, but only to test network configurations against bandwidth limits. I obviously do not have the years of experience that you guys have to bring up a well defended colony.

Islands poll: what exactly would be the poll about? This is a discussion, a poll like "Do you want us to redo some of the gamma islands?" wouldn't bring us forward in any way. Neither do "not like x and not like y" statements.

I'll try to put up the old island maps somewhere.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

I will build a base, but only to test network configurations against bandwidth limits. I obviously do not have the years of experience that you guys have to bring up a well defended colony.

The problem then becomes you will be setting the rules by which we have to play without truly understanding their cause and effect. If you the Devs cannot build a functioning and sustainable base by your own rules how do you expect us to?

Islands poll: what exactly would be the poll about? This is a discussion, a poll like "Do you want us to redo some of the gamma islands?" wouldn't bring us forward in any way. Neither do "not like x and not like y" statements.

The poll I meant would be "do you have a problem terraforming vertical walls if they were limited in height?"

I'll try to put up the old island maps somewhere.

187 (edited by Tux 2014-05-16 17:10:43)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

I will build a base, but only to test network configurations against bandwidth limits. I obviously do not have the years of experience that you guys have to bring up a well defended colony.

Islands poll: what exactly would be the poll about? This is a discussion, a poll like "Do you want us to redo some of the gamma islands?" wouldn't bring us forward in any way. Neither do "not like x and not like y" statements.

I'll try to put up the old island maps somewhere.


When you build your base just drop the needed structures to build a fully powered and boosted production base and see what you have left.

We don't assume you have the years of experience of building Gamma bases there are very few Corps in the game who do. But here is the issue, you are telling us will all of our experience that we have to be limited by slopes for example ... because it (first) was bad tile stretch look (then) was going to not allow for roam able islands.

Why not:

* Allow the same Tf mechanics that were allowed in Gamma 1.0 within 3KM of the terminal

* Limit the height at which any tile can be raised to to 500M from sea level. this would require you to re design all of the islands so the highest tiles were no higher than 500M.

* 3KM is the distance at which all of the beta terminals can have walls set at so it would be a consistent range for a base footprint.

* Increase the terminal bandwidth @t3 to 100,000 from 40, 000.

*Allow only 1 terminal per island.

If people are not given the freedom to create their own bases with unique designs you might as well just add more BETA islands with 1 terminal in the center of them and remove the tower requirement form colixium mining.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

188 (edited by Gremrod 2014-05-16 17:21:50)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

I will build a base, but only to test network configurations against bandwidth limits. I obviously do not have the years of experience that you guys have to bring up a well defended colony.

Islands poll: what exactly would be the poll about? This is a discussion, a poll like "Do you want us to redo some of the gamma islands?" wouldn't bring us forward in any way. Neither do "not like x and not like y" statements.

I'll try to put up the old island maps somewhere.

Something like this for the island poll.

Gamma 2.0 islands layout Poll

1. Leave them as they where.
2. Redesign the all gamma island layouts.


This poll is for the island layout only nothing else.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Tux wrote:

*Allow only 1 terminal per island.

Why only one per island?

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Cassius/Tux: vertical walls won't happen, so just leave it please.

Gremrod wrote:

Something like this for the island poll.

Gamma 2.0 islands layout Poll

1. Leave them as they where.
2. Redesign the all gamma island layouts.


This poll is for the island layout only nothing else.

I'm sorry but that poll has no point. Or how many polls do you want to do after that?
People vote for redesign. Ok, which ones? Why those? Redesign with what goal exactly?

This isn't poll material.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

I have uploaded the gamma island maps with heavy mech slope display here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/utv2ra6gcwb8 … QaeBz1_TBa

192

Re: Gamma revamp testing

At this point just scrap TFing, The Test server version is horrible.  Just give us walls and gates and tweek turrets a bit.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

I have uploaded the gamma island maps with heavy mech slope display here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/utv2ra6gcwb8 … QaeBz1_TBa

do you know what all those islands have in common, making it a bit boring?

all teleporters are located at the coast, not a single one is right in the CENTER of the island.
also, no teleporter has more then one connection.

is there a special reason for that?

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Why yellow and green islands have tons of mountains and blue are always flat, it should be cool to balance them a bit.

Suggestion: altenate the color of gamma islands, stop with your 8 blue islands,8 yellow and 8  green.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

Cassius/Tux: vertical walls won't happen, so just leave it please.

Gremrod wrote:

Something like this for the island poll.

Gamma 2.0 islands layout Poll

1. Leave them as they where.
2. Redesign the all gamma island layouts.


This poll is for the island layout only nothing else.

I'm sorry but that poll has no point. Or how many polls do you want to do after that?
People vote for redesign. Ok, which ones? Why those? Redesign with what goal exactly?

This isn't poll material.

Gamma 2.0 islands layout Poll

1. Leave them alone.
2. Redesign all gamma island layouts.


Very simple poll that I can tell. This has nothing to do with base building etc.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

196 (edited by Tux 2014-05-16 18:38:21)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

THIS

Ville wrote:

At this point just scrap TFing, The Test server version is horrible.  Just give us walls and gates and tweek turrets a bit.


Because TF on test is junk .  ... I agree it will never work

Make more modular walls you can walk on like castle defense + Gates + towers .. modular structures we can build like lego blocks to make bases and cities

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Tux wrote:

THIS

Ville wrote:

At this point just scrap TFing, The Test server version is horrible.  Just give us walls and gates and tweek turrets a bit.


Because TF on test is junk .  ... I agree it will never work

Make more modular walls you can walk on like castle defense + Gates + towers .. modular structures we can build like lego blocks to make bases and cities

Yup starting to think TF just has too many issues to solve. And even if you think you have solved them all someone will find a way to break it still. sad

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

198 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-05-16 21:24:36)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

How about Shield Walls?

People talk about gates like this is swords and horses.

Shield Wall can be similar to current shield except not related to accumulator and not round. Put up two Shield towers, connect them to each other, run off Base power supply and let be target-able (destructible).

Set standings on them so friendlies can pass through enemies cannot

cannot shoot through.

Balance so you cannot layer them (so you can always target the Shield Towers)

add whatever balancing necessary

and ZOOM please test your idea about manually "painting" zones for bases and terraforming
. You can more easily deal with balancing zone by zone if for example you discover your painted zone is too close to TP, you can repaint it. Or is someone decided to terraform offensive stuff you can reset terrafoming in that ONE zone without resetting the server. Any issue you find on one island, one zone can be dealt with individually.

199 (edited by Gremrod 2014-05-16 21:31:34)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Yeah shield walls would be the look I think that would go with the game.

A wall would consist of energy nodes, one at each end. The shield effect would look just like the current shields in game by would be a straight from one node to the other end node.

|%%%%%%|

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

you know, shield-walls and multi-tile walls share that same issue multi tile robots do? where to lock?
but unlike robots, this one should be by far easier to solve since they are static targets

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