1 (edited by Tux 2014-04-23 04:58:30)

Topic: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Zoom: Can you please spell out in detail what the Developers Goals & Intents are for gamma. Here is just an example list:

1. All gammas islands  need to be accessible to all players looking to roam them for industry or pvp needs.

2. Gamma colonies are designed to be about 2 x 2 KM in size, they are not ment to spider across the island and control all entry to the island.

3. Gamma Colonies are designed to be classified as (defensive, logistical, Industry Hub)

4. we want players to build gamma islands in a way that it will support a single corp of about 50 players

^^^ Just some examples ... but we need to know what you guys want (guidance) in order to test it properly. I can break things all day long. But if you are intending it to be that way its a waste of time. 

Some core mechanics need to be addressed.

Colony Size ( physical distance from the main terminal at witch structures can be placed)

Gamma Island Terminal Limit ( this needs to go from 12 to 1 if you allow more than 1 islands will always be able to be walled off)

Command Relay Removal
( Only adds to the issue of being able to spider networks across the island and secure gates )

Mining Tower ( change mechanic so aura effects while island just like other auras)

Disable deploy able wall units from being able to be used on Gamma (this will become very exploitable with new TF limitations)

Masking Aura ( change to be island wide )

Mineral Fields ( will need to spawn in only passable terrain) with current mechanics players will not be able to Tf into areas that are "naturally" impassable to gain access to mineral fields that spawn in impassable terrain.

With the limitation of 1 Terminal on an island the Owning corporation should be able to have many different bonuses through out the whole island like masking and colix mining to enable them to avoid needing to  secure the whole island (with turrets and walls at the gates) to do basic activities like mining and artifact hunting. Currently walling gates is needed because of the lack of benefits players get when "away from terminal"

I think by Extending these benefits island wide just like other Auras and players will have a little more reward for the new found risk of not being able to full lock down the gamma island.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

-1 mining tower and huge -1 masking node.  However, Tux I do agree fully and glad somebody said it.  WTF do you want us to do.

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Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Also the Alarms should ring when turrets are attacked with EWar just like when the structures are attacked and take damage.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

+1

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

I agree with the most, however I dont like the island wide masking aura and miner aura.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

This is what I would do.

Colony Size Turrets Max 600/ 650 / 700m (T1 T2 T3 terminal) from a terminal.

Gamma Island Terminal Limit   No limit. But 5Km min between Terminals. And 3Km from Telleports

Command Relay Removal
Keep Command relays but remove the imunity they give to stations. stations already have reinforce modes

Mining Tower Keep as is but give a HP boost?

Wall Units not sure about these i would like the current units removed & re done into real walls that you can walk on top of.

Masking Aura Keep as is

Missile Turrets Nerf the range of these. Being able to hit out to 1.4km is ridiculously OP.

Also Player built Highways.

smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

updated Op with mineral field addition

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

mining tower:
each tower collects a new mineral that is necessary to fuel the base reactors. The resource is automatically transfered via power connection.
If you only connect the tower with a command relay, it will store the resource locally to be transported.
the storage access is unrestricted and can be raided by enemy forces.
towers with overlapping AoE ranges will not gather more (similar to creeperWorlds reactors)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

9 (edited by Jita 2014-04-25 17:14:56)

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

My vision of what I see Gamma as is basically islands of defence in the badlands of a gamma island.

Things I would change to achieve this:

Base placement 5km minimum from teleports and other bases

Gamma Island Terminal Limit set at 3

Terraform restrictions Only within 1.5km of a t1 base

Structure placement conditions Only within 1.5km of a t1 base

Terraforming style Keep the current model for terraforming

Aura Enable + 30% for mining

Minerals Put epriton back on Gamma. Automatically move any field within 1km of a dropped base.

Base cost Make bases single use only and not able to be deconstructed, only destroyed

Tech Remove t2 and t3 structures from the game with a view to reintroducing them every six months once balance is achieved

Passive mining Make mining towers passively mine 0.25m ore an hour and have no reinforce timer (stole this idea from Balf)

Bandwidth Keep current bandwidth restrictions on test server


So this would allow you to build a citadel of your own design at a good distance from anywhere. It would be a strongpoint in the middle or edge of an island. The bonus' you can achieve would make mining lucrative however without guns to protect you dangerous - just like Beta. Your mining towers would provide a passive income but be exposed to enemy action - this would create a reason to roam an island and a reason to defend. Future tech expansions would minimise cost and give us something to look forward too.

Gamma would become a place to fight

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Some of that is pretty good. I worry slightly about epi back on gamma, but I can be convinced if its not Turtle paradise. And a big hell no to the passive mining towers. Screw free minerals. Instead, I say you should have to construct a mining tower to mine ANY ore on gamma. And remove reinforcement from mining towers. This way mining towers and miners are still exposed to enemy action and there is no passive mining income.

You are *** about the ease of mining on alpha already, and you want to make the ore mine itself on gamma? Come on, Man

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

I don't really care about minerals, I do want a way a roaming gang can incentivise a defender to fight rather than sit inside a station. Tux had an idea that got developed in to something workable and better - just have to hope the devs implement it.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

12 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-04-26 19:25:27)

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Old 100% Minus Model
So far it seems all ideas and suggestions still revolve around the concept that practically ALL of Gamma should be subject to Terraforming and Base Building MINUS certain limitations (e.g. terminal caps, minimum distance to terraform around teleports, cpu & grid constraint, etc).

Perhaps Devs should begin at an entirely new starting point.

New Zone Terraforming Concept
Others have mentioned creating designated spots on Gamma where terminals are placed. I believe this idea stems from the issues with terminal caps. But dictating an exact spot for base and terminal placement leaves little room for creativity. Expanding on this concept however, perhaps entire geographical zones can be designated on Gamma where it's essentially free-for-all base building and terraforming. These zones can be 'islands' within the island.

As long as the Island Zones are themselves large enough and spaced away from each other it should allow for Creative Design and ample Defense of the Zone, while still permitting non-resident Pirates and Hostiles to enter the Gamma Island freely and roam for miners and whatever.

Under this Concept Model only ~30% of Gamma would be terraformable, maybe less. But there needs to be plenty of room for aggressors. And even if defenders walled off every zone an aggressor need only dig far enough into one corner to place his own terminal for offense.

No terminal caps necessary. Nor are slope limitations as important. Keep both single tile and beacon terraforming. And forget the CPU/Grid limitations ...if Defender wants 1000 turrets to protect his Island Zone, so be it as long as he cannot effectively Turtle the WHOLE Gamma Island and block Teleports.

Further, Zones should still be on Peninsulas and Shorelines (for better defense) as well as smack in the middle of the island (for refuge and logistics).

If you Devs have your own Vision for what you want Gamma to look like, then design the islands how you want them and then add pockets of sand for us to shovel.

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Rage Rex wrote:

Old 100% Minus Model
So far it seems all ideas and suggestions still revolve around the concept that practically ALL of Gamma should be subject to Terraforming and Base Building MINUS certain limitations (e.g. terminal caps, minimum distance to terraform around teleports, cpu & grid constraint, etc).

Perhaps Devs should begin at an entirely new starting point.

New Zone Terraforming Concept
Others have mentioned creating designated spots on Gamma where terminals are placed. I believe this idea stems from the issues with terminal caps. But dictating an exact spot for base and terminal placement leaves little room for creativity. Expanding on this concept however, perhaps entire geographical zones can be designated on Gamma where it's essentially free-for-all base building and terraforming. These zones can be 'islands' within the island.

As long as the Island Zones are themselves large enough and spaced away from each other it should allow for Creative Design and ample Defense of the Zone, while still permitting non-resident Pirates and Hostiles to enter the Gamma Island freely and roam for miners and whatever.

Under this Concept Model only ~30% of Gamma would be terraformable, maybe less. But there needs to be plenty of room for aggressors. And even if defenders walled off every zone an aggressor need only dig far enough into one corner to place his own terminal for offense.

No terminal caps necessary. Nor are slope limitations as important. Keep both single tile and beacon terraforming. And forget the CPU/Grid limitations ...if Defender wants 1000 turrets to protect his Island Zone, so be it as long as he cannot effectively Turtle the WHOLE Gamma Island and block Teleports.

Further, Zones should still be on Peninsulas and Shorelines (for better defense) as well as smack in the middle of the island (for refuge and logistics).

If you Devs have your own Vision for what you want Gamma to look like, then design the islands how you want them and then add pockets of sand for us to shovel.

Not sure about all of it, but the general idea is pretty good. The problems with gamma and walls have come from the lack of restrictions in their use. Better to start with possibly too many restrictions and then remove them slowly, than the other way round imo

14

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

The following suggestions are based on the following idea. Gamma islands should not be able to be “locked” form other players by using teraforming and turrets to surround the gates to the island. If we agree on this the we can also agree upon a roadmap of what should happen in order to accomplish the above. Not all are my Ideas but many are really good to bring more risk and reward to gamma. A good balance will be if bases are stronger but the island is weaker. 

Island

All Gamma islands are limited to one Terminal of any size. The primary reason for this limitation is to prevent the placing terminals as close to the gates as possible. No gamma has only one gate so there will always be a weak point.

Colony structures limited to 2.5 to3km from all teleports.

Gamma islands Should be limited to 2 or 3 teleports, the few islands we have with 4 teleports need to be remapped for the network to support 3 teleports.

Colony

Gamma colonies are designed to be about 3x3 to 5x5 KM in size. This means a T1 base will have a 1.5km build radius T2 will have about 2km radius and a T3 will have about a 2.5 km build radius. This rule will be limited to base defenses (turrets). Colonies will still be able to expand outward in order to place mining towers for colixium mining.

Bandwidth modifications need to be made to the following:

Terminals T1 ~ 40,000 | T2 ~ 60, 000 | T3 ~ 80,000

Turrets all need to share the same bandwidth 250, 275,300

Facility upgrades need to be rebalanced @ 100, 125, 150,

Batteries need to be rebalanced @ 100, 125, 150

Boosters need to have sensor boosting as an option removed

All turrets need to use the same optimal range according to their tier 1000, 1200, 1400, additionally the AI for turrets needs to be adjusted to make the turret lock and shoot @ or beyond its optimal range including falloff range.

This change will make a full T1 colony viable on gamma.

NEW ~ Plasma Collecting

Gamma colonies are built and supported by their owners, a gamma colony deployed on an island will require and consume resources from that specific island. This means the owner of the colony will be required to collect plasma from the islands “plasma fields” in order to fuel its reactors. The reactors are considered fully supplied if there are 5 plasma collectors collecting plasma. These plasma fields will rotate their location just like mineral fields when depleted. A single plasma field can be collected for a period of 14 days. This collection of plasma will be absorbed in to the colonies reactors with no transportation needed. But the Plasma collectors will need to be guarded by the colony owners, the plasma collectors look similar to the current mining towers and also have one reinforcement cycle.

Terraforming

Terraforming distance from all teleports should be hard coded at 1.5 to 2km. so players cannot change the terrain this close to the teleports.

Colony Terraforming limitations should only allow a corporation or player to Tf the island according the already existing island. This means the terraformer can change the terrain based upon the original height map of the island, this will allow for a single tile to be moved 75 to 100m  up or down. This terraformed tile will be in its terraformed state as long as there is a colony structure within 250m of the tile. If the tile has no colony structure in its area then that tile will revert to its original state after a period of 7 days.   

This new TF system will allow for limited customization of every island while not breaking the texture of the game engine with 1000m walls. This also emphasizes the aspect of “living” on gamma. Corporations will no longer be able to terraform a gate closed and wait for the attacker to breach it. If the owning player does not actively patrol his island it will revert back to its original state.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

I'm not a fan of 1 terminal per island.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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16

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

What other way can we try to prevent a terminal by every gate with turrets surrounding the gate ?


Ville wrote:

I'm not a fan of 1 terminal per island.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Tux wrote:

What other way can we try to prevent a terminal by every gate with turrets surrounding the gate ?


Ville wrote:

I'm not a fan of 1 terminal per island.

revamp of gate mechanics.

you know, something like a siege building that allow you to fire a "mobile reciever teleport" to any location within its range, even other islands?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

18 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-04-29 19:32:34)

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Every island is shaped differently with different numbers of TPs. Some are within peninsulas, others on wide open shores. If you want ONE size fits all KM requirement you will not solve the Island Accessibility Problem effectively. Some TPs, particularly peninsula TPs may still be effectively blocked.

Devs need custom constraints per island. See my post above on Zone Terraforming

Terminal Limits will not matter if you can only build bases in specific Geographic Zones customized on each island by Devs. As long as Dev ensure:
Zones not near TPs
Zones not near each other to bottleneck island passage or effectively make navigating island impossible or near impossible

Tux wrote:

A good balance will be if bases are stronger but the island is weaker.

I agree. Weaker Island, Stronger Bases (Zones).

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

the other solution would be continents instead of islands.
but for that, the DEVs need to rewrite their engine to allow seamless transition between server instances.

a 1 terminal per island restriction is open for abuse - you dont want an island, but you also dont want someone else to build something there - so you just build a terminal as placeholder

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Annihilator wrote:

a 1 terminal per island restriction is open for abuse - you dont want an island, but you also dont want someone else to build something there - so you just build a terminal as placeholder

+1 I don't like 1 terminal per island either. What I liked about gamma is you have a chance of building a small base without anyone noticing for a while.

RIP PERPETUUM

21 (edited by Celebro 2014-04-29 20:06:22)

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Sorry Double post

RIP PERPETUUM

22 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-04-29 20:18:58)

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Dazamin wrote:
Rage Rex wrote:

New Zone Terraforming Concept ...etc etc etc

Not sure about all of it, but the general idea is pretty good.

I'm only Selling the general idea as a starting point. The specifics are an entirely different thing. But I do believe this could be strong basis for solving two BIG issues with old Gamma Mechanics
1.) Permits Island Accessibility for all
2.) Limits Terraforming monstrosity to fraction of Gamma, while preserving large sections of the islands original design.

I do believe that Devs want the 50% slope rule to limit ugly monolithic creations tossed sporadically around an island. I think the monoliths would not be nearly as bad if forced into designated sections of the island. In fact Creative Character should NOT be limited if they are constrained to Zones.

Added bonus is that with custom Terraforming Zones, perhaps Devs can set them up independently in the code to make balancing adjustments Zone by Zone, Island by Island. So if there are issues (e.g turrets reach TP or TP effectively blocked), rather than reset everything everywhere, they can customize the particular problem zone.

I hope you're reading this Zoom.

23

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

You can do the same now only you need 12 terminals.

If the owning corp is not willing to defend that " placeholder " then i will get destroyed. I don't see the problem. If a corporation has the power to colonize a gamma island im sure they can clear a terminal off of a gamma island..

Celebro wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

a 1 terminal per island restriction is open for abuse - you dont want an island, but you also dont want someone else to build something there - so you just build a terminal as placeholder

+1 I don't like 1 terminal per island either. What I liked about gamma is you have a chance of building a small base without anyone noticing for a while.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

Tux wrote:

Zoom: Can you please spell out in detail what the Developers Goals & Intents are for gamma. Here is just an example list:

1. All gammas islands  need to be accessible to all players looking to roam them for industry or pvp needs.

2. Gamma colonies are designed to be about 2 x 2 KM in size, they are not ment to spider across the island and control all entry to the island.

Would be nice if Zoom answered this basic question about intent. Would be better if these two Concepts became Reality.

Re: Revamp Goals & Suggestions

offtopic: its so confusing to see quotes below the actual comment. strange default behaviour of the forums

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear