Topic: More clarification on EULAs.

Now before we even start, this is not a call out thread, a troll tread or even a rage thread.  I'm just a little puzzled and would like a little explaining done.

It has came to my attention that certain players are being called in what they term "offensive" names and abuse a certain mechanic in game enmass.  I being a player who is an adult and do what most adults do and tolerate and laugh.

I guess my question is simple:  Is hazing and harassing verbally through text, with NON vulgar words considered against the EULA and if so should we send support tickets? 

Example:  A fellow Aussie player friend of mine says to an enemy in private chat OR vicinity, "Come fight us you soft co*ks!"  Is this too offensive for a mature game?

Example:  "Stop being a chicken and undock"

And I love being Called VILE instead of V-E-E-LAY(@Skymarshal Brandon)

And I am not trying to troll no body, but players say highly offensive things to me all the time and I laugh and go on about it, do I in turn need to start submitting tickets because my efeelings where hurt or can we just have a general consensus as long as its not vulgar we just need to be adults and shrug it off.  I don't want to bog Zoom down with tickets, and I am willing to let things go(and behave) but it's a little one sided which pisses me off.  Or as Hunter says "Why crybaby win?"

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Re: More clarification on EULAs.

I guess what I want to know, how do you want me play and respond to my enemys?  Are we going 100% respectful and good.  50% mix but no vulgarity.  Or 0% anything goes(I figure this ones out).

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Well most EULA dont allow for drug referrences/pop culture refs etc.

As for in game chat - GW2 will give a temp ban for any swear words or racist remarks second one is longer time out , third is perm. I think it is fair to say that the devs are sending the message.

Are you receiving Bille?

but yes by all means lets spend dev time reporting everyone.

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Vulgar remarks and racial slurs, I get.  No one should be subjected to that.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Twitch has that nice bot in everey chat channel that automatically detects profanity and kicks/bans the responsibles.
Something like that could enforce the EULA in public game channels until GMs are hired again.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

6 (edited by Cassius 2014-04-28 19:31:52)

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Honestly, in private or vicinity chat I don't really care about the vulgarity. But there is quite a bit that if said in Gen Chat/recruitment/Help, or other public channels that I would ban, and then perma ban when it's said again. Simply because it makes the game and its community look bad to the newer players.

Not everyone wants to be subjected to epeen waving and internet tough guy talk when logging in.

At the same time it's up to the Devs to enforce this as they see fit. The lack of enforcement on some of the things said also looks bad on the game.

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

A lot of the conflict in this game is driven by personas people adopt. Smacktalk drives PvP and gives someone a reason to fight other than the bare mechanics. It has been that way since closed beta and its a rich part of the fabric of not just this mmo but many others.

Bottom line is the devs should police the stuff that's a possible legal risk to the company, provide tools to block unwanted chat and let the community deal with the rest.

Racial slurs, harassment, bullying or the display of personal information should all be actionable. Its not the devs job to police hurt feelings.

Further than this there should be clear guidelines of what action is taken at what stage and this communicated in any moderation or warnings.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

And what all is being policed?  Game, forums, IRC chat, twitch streams, third party web sites, killboards that are player run?  All of which have had players banned for offensives in the past.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

9 (edited by Cassius 2014-04-28 22:04:46)

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

I think "soft c*cks" "***" and "HHN" are all things that should evoke bans, especially the last one.
Nothing wrong with smacktalk, and I agree fully with how it drives PvP etc.

I just personally don't like how much of it is on Gen Chat, and I've said why.

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

When writing your petition include precise times, names of the offenders, and  quotes of the exact language used. It's also good practice to expand upon your feelings. What emotions do these remarks elicit from you? The more detailed you describe your pain the more likely justice will be served.

And always... Be Excellent!

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

All I will say is you can't argue or deny how someone feels, it's just not possible.

RIP PERPETUUM

12 (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2014-04-28 23:07:39)

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

well i think its clear by now that this is all because of my support ticket. sadly enought that the devs do not keep things like this confidential, but thats another story.

i think that nobody realy cares about some smacktalk, but there is a clear line between smacktalk and personal insults.
its a difference if you say things like: "run you cowards" when somebody walks from the battlefield.
but its a different thing when use things like (quote): "why dont you suck a *** zortard". this is personal. even in two ways in this case.

talking about "adults" and "trolling":
you might have noticed that its only one "faction" that is primary trolling around. and for all that corporation and alliance propaganda/drama nobody cares and we usually ignore that anyway.

trolling in factual discussions (like for example about game mechanics) or even bringing that propaganda bullshit to these discussion sections is a no go for every adult mindset. if you cant seperate that then you surely dont have a adult mindset.
just as using insults in these kinds of discussions just because you want to strengthen your position or try to let the people with another opinions look bad. that is not adult behaviour like you claimed above that you posess it. and there are plenty of that samples in this forum.
guess why less and less ppl use that forum for suggestions and other usefull talk that would help this game.

the last example is the "show" you and your friends did to this topic in Skymarshal Brandon's livestream in the twitch chat. that shows exacly your "adult" mindet that you talked about in your post. just like your spam afterwards in various public channels. i would say: the behaviour of a 12 or 15 year old at max.


i dont care about a bit smacktalk, but getting insulted in a personal way by the same ppl over and over again has its limits. so thats when that ticked happend.

regards
zort

13 (edited by Jita 2014-04-28 22:49:52)

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

well i think its clear by now that this is all because of my support ticket. sadly enought that the devs do not keep things like this confidential, but thats another story.

i think that nobody realy cares about some smacktalk, but there is a clear line between smacktalk and personal insults.
its a difference if you say things like: "run you cowards" when somebody walks from the battlefield.
but its a different thing when use things like (quote): "why dont you suck a *** zortard". this is personal. even in two ways in this case.

talking about "adults" and "trolling":
you might have noticed that its only one "faction" that is primary trolling around. and for all that corporation and alliance propaganda/drama nobody cares and we usually ignore that anyway.

trolling in factual discussions (like for example about game mechanics) or even bringing that propaganda bullshit to that sections is a no go for every adult mindset. if you cant seperate that then you surely dont have a adult mindset.
just as using insults in these kinds of discussions just because you want to strengthen your position or try to let the people with another opinions look bad. that is not adult behaviour like you claimed above that you posess it. and there are plenty of that samples in this forum.
guess why less and less ppl use that forum for suggestions and other usefull talk that would help this game.

the last example is the "show" you and your friends did to this topic in Skymarshal Brandon's livestream in the twitch chat. that shows exacly your "adult" mindet that you talked about in your post. just like your spam afterwards in various public channels. i would say: the behaviour of a 12 or 15 year old at max.


i dont care about a bit smacktalk, but getting insulted in a personal way by the same ppl over and over again has its limits. so thats when that ticked happend.

regards
zort

Actually its not even about you. That was one of two comms i got within a week. It was about the instructions i received which basically said that if I insult anyone i'm getting banned.

As for the broadcast I dont really know what your talking about. I do know I donated three codes myself to the giveaway. I have as much stake in making this game a succes as you do and have repeatedly and acively demonstrated this.

I think the roundtable showed that outside of general chat persona everyone can be reasonable and adult. THe game is the game.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

well i think its clear by now that this is all because of my support ticket. sadly enought that the devs do not keep things like this confidential, but thats another story.

I kept it confidential as much as I could, obviously I had to explain the people I warned the reason why I warned them. The fact that they make it public is something I can't really control, I hope you can see that.

As for the answer to your question Ville: I think Zortarg explained it well.

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

It´s a mature game. Good and Evil make up the spice and diversity. Which ever role you want to play, it´s up to you.  Seriouz internetz gamez produces a generation of people who are incapable of handling conflict situations.

Nevertheless, I definitely think, this forum and game is in need of some serious moderation.
The forums are just prone to constant propaganda an troll posts, whichever sections you are trying to discuss and the chat channels are just vulgar flaming and trolling on a ticker basis.

I am not trying to piss anyone off, but it´s not hard to notice, this is usually derived from one side of the community. Like I said, good and evil is good for the game. Yet I think it´s certainly taking overhand and the present situation is in need to be moderated.

So I part with the words, see you @#!x$% InGame!

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16

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

@ Zoom, I don't understand why there is any tolerance for racial, sexual, or any other type of harassment allowed on the forums or in the game. There should be no question. .. the more this is allowed to go on the worse its going to get ... I think most everyone will agree when you see people in GC or vicinity yelling about N_____ this or F__ that or suck on a _____ you ____ .. its a turn off for a LOT of players.

When these reports come to you you do NOT need to warn offenders, its in the EULA. You need to exercise your authority and start banning the offenders. I have some issues with exactly this that have not been addressed yet but you will have several tickets from me shortly for these same kind of issues.

This is a game its for entertainment its not some where anyone should feel harassed, bullied or belittled.

It needs to stop or I'm sure your going to allow deviants to drive some of the smartest people away from this game, because eventually they will stop tolerating it. 

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Tux wrote:

@ Zoom, I don't understand why there is any tolerance for racial, sexual, or any other type of harassment allowed on the forums or in the game. There should be no question. .. the more this is allowed to go on the worse its going to get ... I think most everyone will agree when you see people in GC or vicinity yelling about N_____ this or F__ that or suck on a _____ you ____ .. its a turn off for a LOT of players.

When these reports come to you you do NOT need to warn offenders, its in the EULA. You need to exercise your authority and start banning the offenders. I have some issues with exactly this that have not been addressed yet but you will have several tickets from me shortly for these same kind of issues.

This is a game its for entertainment its not some where anyone should feel harassed, bullied or belittled.

It needs to stop or I'm sure your going to allow deviants to drive some of the smartest people away from this game, because eventually they will stop tolerating it. 

Are you calling for Zero tolerance?

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

perhaps we need an ingame profanity filter and going outside that is actionable.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Tux wrote:

@ Zoom, I don't understand why there is any tolerance for racial, sexual, or any other type of harassment allowed on the forums or in the game. There should be no question. .. the more this is allowed to go on the worse its going to get ... I think most everyone will agree when you see people in GC or vicinity yelling about N_____ this or F__ that or suck on a _____ you ____ .. its a turn off for a LOT of players.

When these reports come to you you do NOT need to warn offenders, its in the EULA. You need to exercise your authority and start banning the offenders. I have some issues with exactly this that have not been addressed yet but you will have several tickets from me shortly for these same kind of issues.

This is a game its for entertainment its not some where anyone should feel harassed, bullied or belittled.

It needs to stop or I'm sure your going to allow deviants to drive some of the smartest people away from this game, because eventually they will stop tolerating it. 

+1

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Jita wrote:

perhaps we need an ingame profanity filter

It's been on our todo for a while but now it got promoted to the top of it.

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

MoBIoS wrote:

It´s a mature game. Good and Evil make up the spice and diversity. Which ever role you want to play, it´s up to you.  Seriouz internetz gamez produces a generation of people who are incapable of handling conflict situations.

Listen to your CEO Zortarg.  It's not even about you or your lack of ability to handle insults.  It's about a mature game and people abusing in game mechanics because they are used to GMs swooping in and going, oh it's ok little child we will save you from the real world!  But for now I will stick just submitting tickets every time I am offended thanks to zortarg.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Jita wrote:

perhaps we need an ingame profanity filter and going outside that is actionable.

If we could just get this, all would be better for the Zortargs of the world.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

very mature again ville. but i didnt expected any better. just shows that you did not learn a thing. or am i talking to the 12 year old again?

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

12 year olds can't troll like me.  I don't think you understand what fully what this is about.  I could care less about you and your efeelings.  Honestly I can take it when big old mean guys start insulting me.  I have thick skin and I don't cry myself to sleep at night.  Hate me or not, I don't care.  Call me immature, but I'm more of an adult then you'll ever be.  Its just words Zortarg in a game.  With pixels and tbh I troll you guys to stir conflict.  That's the ONLY way we get fights.  But then suddenly there's a ultimatum thrown in my face that's very vague and senseless.  I get he's tired of answering tickets. I get it.  But do these insults cut so deep you have to sacrifice your manhood and turn into cry baby mode?  Its like Richard simons walking into The Westboro Baptist Church and then complaining to the government because he got criticized.  We are not all hand in hand people who enjoy long walks on the beach and cuddling.  Some of us are rude, crude and lude.  I'm a QA inspector in construction.  My job and I am not kidding is to yell at people all day and tell them how terrible they are.  So excuse me if a little trolling gets you knickers in a bunch because you can't grow a pair and be a man about it that and I know its difficult to find an insulting nickname for Ville.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: More clarification on EULAs.

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

very mature again ville. but i didnt expected any better. just shows that you did not learn a thing. or am i talking to the 12 year old again?

you see this is the thing. You cant have it both ways. I've seen you troll plenty.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."