Topic: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

If TF beacons and charges are going to be cut, I suggest simply reimburse whatever players paid for them, as per transactions list. I just checked, the list goes all the way back to my starting playing, so there is no problem in records. Just parse that list for all charges bought, and reimburse that for everyone.

Clean and simple.

(Note: if only beacons go, then reimburse beacons and only their corresponding charges, etc.)

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

do you know how many Billions of NIC will be instantly added to the economy?  lol....

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

well if they take em, they should give em back when the products that were sold are worthless.

And knowing gamma warfare, itll just get spent again on gamma.

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

You didn't answer the basic question.  What will happen to an economy when billions of nic are suddenly injected into it?

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

It has already been stated that there will be a refund but it hasn't been confirmed yet what will be refunded.
Unknot the panties. Cool the jets. Everything will be okay.

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

I really think reimbursements based on mechanic changes should be limited at best.

Where do you draw the line with what's eligible for reimbursement?
I don't like the "terraforming package for every terminal ever dropped" because the NeBs base on Imi probably used the most terraforming charges per terminals placed, yet they will receive the same charges as the 12th terminal randomly placed on an island to simply reach the cap. Reimburse charges, not Nic. Since they just will be used on Gamma 2.0 anyways.

Sorry Quanta.

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

I won't get reimbursed for Inda's Fault.

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

The reimbursement needs to be in NIC for the simple reason that if the mechanics change the personal justification each player had to spend their NIC on Tf charges will need to be re assessed.

Example: If i want to build a wall around a mining terminal so NPC's cant get in then i may choose to spend 10 million NIC buying TF charges to do so. Post revamp IF i cant build that same wall around that same mining terminal with Tf charges why would i spend 10 million NIC on something I cant do?

I buy and item because of it abilities ... If those abilities suddenly change i should get my money back and have the choice to buy that item again if i so desire.

The Economy will be fine whats a few more billion to those who already have tens of billions? Economies are not based around the few richest guys they are based around the "average" guy and what the average guy can afford. Economies are surprising self correcting given enough time.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

Alexander wrote:

It has already been stated that there will be a refund but it hasn't been confirmed yet what will be refunded.
Unknot the panties. Cool the jets. Everything will be okay.

the refund atm will be based on how many bases you have dropped. This is going to wildly inflate it for the people who dropped and moved mining bases.

Refundunding based on market spend is a better idea imo.

While this much money entering the market will have an effect I believe it will be positive as the people with money distribute that to the people without through mineral buy orders and purchasing the stuff they would ordinarily either build or go without.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

Tux wrote:

The Economy will be fine whats a few more billion to those who already have tens of billions? Economies are not based around the few richest guys they are based around the "average" guy and what the average guy can afford. Economies are surprising self correcting given enough time.

Instead of this happening I would rather 0 Reimbursement.  It's only going to cause MORE inflation.

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

This has been discussed before, reimbursing base on market spending is not possible because they don't have the data that far back. Either way due to inflation getting the NIC back would be a huge problem for the economy, everything will go up in price and new player will have a hard time buying stuff.

RIP PERPETUUM

12

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

OP and I Discussed this already,  we both have logs that go all the way back to 2011 for personal transactions.  I haven't seen how far back corp transactions go but i imagine is before 2012 as well so we can get reimbursement based on market purchase.

The data is there saved you just need to look for it.

look at your logs ... its a lot of clicking but you can go all the way back. wink

Celebro wrote:

This has been discussed before, reimbursing base on market spending is not possible because they don't have the data that far back. Either way due to inflation getting the NIC back would be a huge problem for the economy, everything will go up in price and new player will have a hard time buying stuff.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

13

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

I think its only "FAIR" to give people back what was taken from them.

Ville wrote:
Tux wrote:

The Economy will be fine whats a few more billion to those who already have tens of billions? Economies are not based around the few richest guys they are based around the "average" guy and what the average guy can afford. Economies are surprising self correcting given enough time.

Instead of this happening I would rather 0 Reimbursement.  It's only going to cause MORE inflation.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

Also, my suggestion was solely for TF charges and beacons. Not buildings.

and yes, the records go that far.

15 (edited by Gremrod 2014-04-25 20:14:27)

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

Well B.O.S spent a lot on TF charges and our TF work got wiped before the gamma wipe happened (database issue and trans logs were lost) and we didn't see a refund. So if corps get a TF charge refund where is the refund for BOS?

Was told no way for them to tell how much TF charges to refund. But if this do this type of refund I guess BOS could finally get their refund? Devs?

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

Reimbursing charges based on the market is not possible. And the reason is not that we don't have the data, but that it would be near impossible to track all the transactions a single item went through.

Player A buys charge, sells again to player B, player B sells again to player C, etc. Each of these players bought a charge from the market and each of them would want a reimbursement, but we're only talking about a single item. And we don't even know whether the charge has been used or not, ie. a reimbursement is warranted or not.

17 (edited by Tux 2014-04-25 20:22:22)

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

lol well why didnt you just say that in the first place roll you want to do it with trying to avoid over compensating

DEV Zoom wrote:

Reimbursing charges based on the market is not possible. And the reason is not that we don't have the data, but that it would be near impossible to track all the transactions a single item went through.

Player A buys charge, sells again to player B, player B sells again to player C, etc. Each of these players bought a charge from the market and each of them would want a reimbursement, but we're only talking about a single item. And we don't even know whether the charge has been used or not, ie. a reimbursement is warranted or not.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

Well all reaped the benefits of the NIC spent on terraforming. No need to ask for our money back now. Its like requesting a refund for a fully eaten steak.

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

Tund Bungler wrote:

Well all reaped the benefits of the NIC spent on terraforming. No need to ask for our money back now. Its like requesting a refund for a fully eaten steak.

I agree.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

20 (edited by Kaldenines 2014-04-25 22:54:14)

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

DEV Zoom wrote:

Reimbursing charges based on the market is not possible. And the reason is not that we don't have the data, but that it would be near impossible to track all the transactions a single item went through.

Player A buys charge, sells again to player B, player B sells again to player C, etc. Each of these players bought a charge from the market and each of them would want a reimbursement, but we're only talking about a single item. And we don't even know whether the charge has been used or not, ie. a reimbursement is warranted or not.

1) You don't have to track individual items.  All you have to do is calculate the net number of charges that each player bought and sold.  Then you can reimburse based on the cost of each charge.  Besides, how many terraforming charges were actually re-sold by players on the market, can you give us a number on this?

Also, this is something that you have already done once:
http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/tag/pbs/

Issue: Gamma reimbursements required due to changes.
Reimburse the price difference of all purchased terraform ammo in proportion to the new market price.
Reimburse the price difference of all purchased construction blocks in proportion to the new market price.

Finally, what makes you think that a terraforming charge that was not used and is sitting in someone's inventory does not warrant reimbursement?  What other in game assets do you consider to have zero value? I want to make sure I don't store too many of those items.

2) The point of reimbursing players when you wipe out their work is to maintain player confidence in the fairness and impartiality of those who run the game.  By not appropriately reimbursing players when you decide to delete their efforts, you are making the statement: "you are at the mercy of our whims".

EDIT: and yes BOS should get a refund, it makes no sense that they didn't in the first place.  (This is like walls all over again)

+1
-Confucius

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

mad

Kaldenines wrote:

  (This is like walls all over again)

Walls...

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

Kaldenines wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Reimbursing charges based on the market is not possible. And the reason is not that we don't have the data, but that it would be near impossible to track all the transactions a single item went through.

Player A buys charge, sells again to player B, player B sells again to player C, etc. Each of these players bought a charge from the market and each of them would want a reimbursement, but we're only talking about a single item. And we don't even know whether the charge has been used or not, ie. a reimbursement is warranted or not.

1) You don't have to track individual items.  All you have to do is calculate the net number of charges that each player bought and sold.  Then you can reimburse based on the cost of each charge.  Besides, how many terraforming charges were actually re-sold by players on the market, can you give us a number on this?

Also, this is something that you have already done once:
http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/tag/pbs/

Issue: Gamma reimbursements required due to changes.
Reimburse the price difference of all purchased terraform ammo in proportion to the new market price.
Reimburse the price difference of all purchased construction blocks in proportion to the new market price.

Finally, what makes you think that a terraforming charge that was not used and is sitting in someone's inventory does not warrant reimbursement?  What other in game assets do you consider to have zero value? I want to make sure I don't store too many of those items.

2) The point of reimbursing players when you wipe out their work is to maintain player confidence in the fairness and impartiality of those who run the game.  By not appropriately reimbursing players when you decide to delete their efforts, you are making the statement: "you are at the mercy of our whims".

EDIT: and yes BOS should get a refund, it makes no sense that they didn't in the first place.  (This is like walls all over again)


Does your greed know no ends?

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

Kaldenines wrote:

Finally, what makes you think that a terraforming charge that was not used and is sitting in someone's inventory does not warrant reimbursement?  What other in game assets do you consider to have zero value? I want to make sure I don't store too many of those items.

Huh? I meant that unused terraforming charges don't need to be reimbursed because uh... you still have them? smile

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

DEV Zoom wrote:
Kaldenines wrote:

Finally, what makes you think that a terraforming charge that was not used and is sitting in someone's inventory does not warrant reimbursement?  What other in game assets do you consider to have zero value? I want to make sure I don't store too many of those items.

Huh? I meant that unused terraforming charges don't need to be reimbursed because uh... you still have them? smile

His point was because Gamma is closed TF charges have no current value because they are unusable and implies that they should be removed from inventory and reimbursed for this reason.

No is still a valid response, you just need to be clear on what you're saying no to. big_smile

25 (edited by Kaldenines 2014-04-26 01:02:20)

Re: [SUGGESTION] Reimburse all TF charges, beacons, etc.

DEV Zoom wrote:
Kaldenines wrote:

Finally, what makes you think that a terraforming charge that was not used and is sitting in someone's inventory does not warrant reimbursement?  What other in game assets do you consider to have zero value? I want to make sure I don't store too many of those items.

Huh? I meant that unused terraforming charges don't need to be reimbursed because uh... you still have them? smile

Pardon me, I got the impression that they were gonna be removed all together.

+1
-Confucius