Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

with you Syndic its all about numbers....

[02:55:26] <Syndic> I prefer 15:1 odds

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

It´s a change, which revokes all guerrilla tactics for smaller gangs and corps and its sole role is to serve it to the blob. It makes the names and function of an armoured or emergency mobile teleport obsolete.

Jumping flagged to alpha was, just imo, a change which was not needed and was working as it should be, before. 
It was all fine, if you could not leave the island if flagged. An organised blob would still catch you on the way to the gates.

Small corps have no means to hit and run now, as they will be instantly overrun outnumbered.
Not mentioning, that the arriving blob always has the option to destroy the teleports.

So the TP change, which ever way I look at it, doesn´t make any sense, other to serve it to the blob.
That some will welcome and defend those changes, is obvious.

If your intentions are, "you cannot field the numbers, than don´t pvp", well, I suppose that change servers it well.

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Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

nice change.

do i see this right - just because a certain group managed to escape sure robot-death by always bringing armored teleport beacons to a fight (and deploy it in time), and the other side didn't do the exact same to be able to follow them, the feature got changed again?

whats next? a longer delay for deploying after exploding, because it would be unfair to have one side replacing their losses in a few seconds when fighting over an outpost?

logoff inhibitors in a 150m radius around active SAPs (+10minutes before it activates)?

injectors not working as long as a shield is active?

etc...

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29

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

I will say the Devs need to stop flip flopping on these mechanics ...

It doesn't really matter when its takes your enemy 30+ minutes to form any type of response lol .

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Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Annihilator wrote:

nice change.

do i see this right - just because a certain group managed to escape sure robot-death by always bringing armored teleport beacons to a fight (and deploy it in time), and the other side didn't do the exact same to be able to follow them, the feature got changed again?

whats next? a longer delay for deploying after exploding, because it would be unfair to have one side replacing their losses in a few seconds when fighting over an outpost?

logoff inhibitors in a 150m radius around active SAPs (+10minutes before it activates)?

injectors not working as long as a shield is active?

etc...

This takes away risk free pvp for the cost of 1 armored beacon. A much needed change.

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

I always hated the static tps more than mobiles in PvP, TP games sucked. So you expanded their use and then got rid of mobiles in PvP which actually required some strategy. I've never really used Armored TPs, but it does sound like they had a balance issue, being overly hard to kill, which I guess removed strategy from their use. but that isn't a tp problem as much as an armored tp problem, and from what I can see, this whole thing is about armored tps.

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Tux wrote:

I will say the Devs need to stop flip flopping on these mechanics ...

It doesn't really matter when its takes your enemy 30+ minutes to form any type of response lol .

yeah that's right!  Yeah tell em Tux.  In your face Cassius!

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33

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Their is no use for Armored teleports anymore ... they were designed to be used when under fire as an escape  beacon that could withstand a light assault.

Dazamin wrote:

I always hated the static tps more than mobiles in PvP, TP games sucked. So you expanded their use and then got rid of mobiles in PvP which actually required some strategy. I've never really used Armored TPs, but it does sound like they had a balance issue, being overly hard to kill, which I guess removed strategy from their use. but that isn't a tp problem as much as an armored tp problem, and from what I can see, this whole thing is about armored tps.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Those people talking about numbers need to learn to play. There are still plenty of ways to earn a kill and engage higher numbers while not immediately jumping to safety.

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Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

for real, i was going to rage post this suggestion today

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

With the extra long instability timers, teleporter games are pretty much over with.


yay


good patch

Dazamin wrote:

I always hated the static tps more than mobiles in PvP, TP games sucked. So you expanded their use and then got rid of mobiles in PvP which actually required some strategy. I've never really used Armored TPs, but it does sound like they had a balance issue, being overly hard to kill, which I guess removed strategy from their use. but that isn't a tp problem as much as an armored tp problem, and from what I can see, this whole thing is about armored tps.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Generally glad to see this change as the abuse on Armored TPs was absurd.

But Zoom, you guys don't seem to understand the concept of BALANCE, at least not from from perspective of either adding new counters or making smaller adjustments. When you Devs make changes you make them sweeping.

This change is HUGE, and again I'm glad for it as it caters to my playstyle.

But you could also have simply eliminated the Armored TP which is the Biggest culprit here. And if that did not work then make a more aggressive change like the one done today.

And to answer those asking what the difference is between jumping Flagged through Static TPs versus jumping through Mobile TP. The difference is huge. The enemy can follow you through the static TPs, but not the Squad-limited-access Mobile TPs. Perhaps another balance option could have been the ability to use Mobile TPs universally (but that would have issues).

Again, glad to see the change. it's good for me if I can find the time to play.

38 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-04-14 21:25:48)

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Editing my double post to change my opinion...

I've thought about it more and I am liking this change less (still happier than before). Mobile TPs are useful for more than just escape. Even the pursuing player uses mobile TPs to quickly chase down targets when possible.

The problem here is and has been Armored TPs.

But again you Devs do a lousy job at isolating Problems before implementing Solutions. So to fix the Armored TP Escape Problem you rework the Flag mechanic on ALL Mobile TP Usage. It's like you Devs close your eyes and fire a shotgun at all your balancing problems. You never hit the mark, or only hit part of it while wrecking all the good stuff around it.

Yes, this is ONLY HALF A FIX because you still leave the incentive for opponents to NOT flag. Thus they can still sit on their Armored TP and escape before committing. Meanwhile Flagged players hoping to engage across the map can't play. The result will likely be even less PvP.

Better solution is to eliminate the Armored TP and leave Flag Mechanic out of the equation.

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Well, a Lithus (or some other tanked industrial not taking too much pouncing) can still just sit there and readily escape with an armored.

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

I invite anyone complaining about this much needed bugfix to perform the following test;

You will require:
1 stopwatch
1 heavy with max tunings
1 armored beacon

While sitting in your heavy, simultaneously activate the stopwatch and the spacebar to begin shooting an armored TP. When the armored beacon is destroyed deactivate the stopwatch. What is the time on the watch?

Those are ideal conditions, assuming the heavy doesn't need to walk 3+ km to get to the armored beacon, it can begin shooting immediately, and whoever is using the armored beacon isn't shooting/EWARing to keep the heavy away.

Post the results here, then try to complain about it.

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Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

or for the blob, take 2 heavies and 4 to 6 mechs, click the stop watch when you start firing and see how long that armored lasts.  Blob wont post complaints.

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

oh wait, they wont need to shoot the armored, since it got nerfed all they need to do is blob the smaller force, so yeah don't worry about the Armored tele test Syndic, you guys have the Devs in your pocket anytime you want something tweaked to your advantage.

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Lucian Cain wrote:

oh wait, they wont need to shoot the armored, since it got nerfed all they need to do is blob the smaller force, so yeah don't worry about the Armored tele test Syndic, you guys have the Devs in your pocket anytime you want something tweaked to your advantage.


Just gonna tuck this away here so it doesnt go anywhere when Im not looking.

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Tuck away smile

45 (edited by PainEaser 2014-04-14 21:35:00)

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Lucian Cain wrote:

oh wait, they wont need to shoot the armored, since it got nerfed all they need to do is blob the smaller force, so yeah don't worry about the Armored tele test Syndic, you guys have the Devs in your pocket anytime you want something tweaked to your advantage.

plz cry more pls , if you guys would not have abused the crap out of it it prolly would not have been nerved

46 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-04-14 21:48:11)

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

For those crying about this change....yeah its gonna ruin your attempts to preserve kill mail integrity via fleeing from a battle that might result in more than one or two losses....so now youll have to commit or be a pve corp...no more "well we will go in with our blob but if more than a few show up on their side well say they blobbed and run rather than potentially having a fight that might go either way"

However, dry those teary eyes my friend.  This has a silver lining to it all.

Now it will be easier to use tactics (more than running if near evenly matched).  If we get flagged on nova it will be a hell of a lot easier to attack another location, it will be easier to set traps, it will be harder for a large fleet to be one place and then TP to another quickly.

So yeah if an entire alliance mobilizes to attempt to catch and kill a smaller group...they are going to lose their mobility to TP quickly to another island....


Also you could easily negate this blob BS by actively recruiting... one side didn't get large without recruiting new people....its possible for you to counter the blob (and btw you should know damn well how many people we can field, and you should have enough friends and members to easily match those numbers...either you fail at diplomacy or you fail at recruiting and helping new players get pvp ready)

Games like this are built on large scale tactical battles....its about damn time we went back to having such encounters.  Armored beacon spam was wrecking what little shred of this we had left.

But again, this only solves some issues.  I expect many FC's to run and beacon out while the minions get flagged and die...seen it plenty before...


Edit: Zoom is it possible to patch in some balls?  Some people could use battle courage.

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Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Heh, Funny.

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48 (edited by Cassius 2014-04-14 22:21:13)

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Stranger you kind of make my point. I think the idea of no flagged tp is fine, but you are stating it means get a blob and deal with it. Why should everyone be forced to join a corp in order to have PvP? It definitely "hampers" small scale PvP, and one thing the "escape" tp did was allow smaller scale fleets to actively engage larger ones, with some hope of possibly getting away. Now even more so fleets will not risk engaging if it looks like certain losses.

All sides play this way.
And seriously, all sides used the armoured one as much as the other, we just don't bother to try and pretend just the other side does. Look on the PHM recruitment thread for pics of ppl jumping out via armoured.

TL;DR. The change narrows the range of PVP. That's the only thng I don't like. And should have included externals as well.

49 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-04-14 22:36:14)

Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

Cassius wrote:

Stranger you kind of make my point. I think the idea of no flagged tp is fine, but you are stating it means get a blob and deal with it. Why should everyone be forced to join a corp in order to have PvP? It definitely "hampers" small scale PvP, and one thing the "escape" tp did was allow smaller scale fleets to actively engage larger ones, with some hope of possibly getting away. Now even more so fleets will not risk engaging if it looks like certain losses.

All sides play this way.
And seriously, all sides used the armoured one as much as the other, we just don't bother to try and pretend just the other side does. Look on the PHM recruitment thread for pics of ppl jumping out via armoured.

TL;DR. The change narrows the range of PVP. That's the only thng I don't like. And should have included externals as well.

Well you better hope a lot more people join the game to make your beloved "jump a miner" pvp more of a common thing.  Just now youll have to make sure the locals don't notice you just ganked someone since it will be harder for you to get out asap after the lithus and miner die.

Personally I think this game needs more large scale corporate wars, as that adds so many layers of purpose and depth to the game...but then for that to happen a worthy second alliance/corp needs to rise up.

Also this "narrow range of pvp" is bs.  if you don't have intel, don't have allies, and don't have a purpose...which is what the random roams as a form of pvp is...there isn't much else....

Players create the content.  This will only narrow the range of pvp if you are too cowardly to risk those bots on the roam...just like youll now need to risk the fleet in a war vs scurrying off to beacons.  PVP isn't fun when the fights either a quick gank or everyone runs...which is precisely what was wrong with the game in the past.  People like blowing up robots...that doesn't happen when the second largest alliance runs away all the time even when numbers are even...leaving only random roam ganks...which imo is as narrow as it gets...and not very fun...which has been pvp in perpetuum for years now.

that ends now.

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Re: Mobile teleports and PvP flags

i have seen 2 vagas 2 zeniths 1 ictus 2 seths and a mesmer mk2 run from an ictus, vaga, gropho and 2 seth mk2s because they had a line of tps ready to jump out.

true story yarr