Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yes, that's what will happen, I just wasn't sure so far whether there is an easy way to do that, but fortunately there is.

what about the roaming spawn? will that one turn into a military parade roam too?

DEV Zoom wrote:

If you want my personal and honest opinion, it saddens me a bit that the community is still not at that point where they would just start organizing guardian squads to protect the miners or the busy transport routes. That would be a true sandbox trait, but maybe I'm just a dreamer.

well, the whole game is not set up for THAT to happen at any time...
just look at the farming arguments up there. NPCs only exist as farming targets. not as part of the lore, not as part of the immersion - just as resource for kernels, plasma and fragments.

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Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Annihilator wrote:

what about the roaming spawn? will that one turn into a military parade roam too?

This only concerns mission related spawns, because we can't fix those any other way as long as missions are the way they are.

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Having mission NPC's on Alpha as orange would be fine, I don't think anyone would be against it. On Beta everything should be red anyway so it doesn't matter so much.

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29 (edited by Burial 2014-04-12 23:19:42)

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:

If you want my personal and honest opinion, it saddens me a bit that the community is still not at that point where they would just start organizing guardian squads to protect the miners or the busy transport routes. That would be a true sandbox trait, but maybe I'm just a dreamer.

9 times out of 10 it's not needed. The 1 time out of 10 someone loses a Scarab it's portrayed as an issue.

All-in-all it's pretty funny to watch from the bushes.

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

One of the areas this game departs from EvE is the lack of greifing in Alpha. This is a positive for you, its why I started here and left there. The *** who try and project their influence in the pvp world here should be sufficient grief.  If you are saying miners need to be protected on Alpha you are saying *** you solo players.

I'm all for pvp and corp fights and alliances and territory control. But 85% of the people who will put pizza on your table and beer in your fridge will be solo or Alpha dwellers.  And these are the people who will stock the market and consume it. I'd be much happier with all red spawns, and harder ranked spawns on the Alphas, than with the ability to drag NPCs and grief them on other players. Make it harder, for sure.

You are shooting yourself in the foot if you continue down this path, and you are right at the cusp of the game living or dying.

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:

If you want my personal and honest opinion, it saddens me a bit that the community is still not at that point where they would just start organizing guardian squads to protect the miners or the busy transport routes. That would be a true sandbox trait, but maybe I'm just a dreamer.

Are you talking about alpha or pvp zones?

Also I think we should keep in mind that roaming NPCs are one thing.  Here we are looking at NPCs that are being, literally, used as weapons on alpha. 

p.s. That was my Mesmer that got blown up on the pier in NE Tellesis.  Nicely done Earth Muncher.  I look forward to trying this myself if it turns out to not be an exploit.

+1
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Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:

If you want my personal and honest opinion, it saddens me a bit that the community is still not at that point where they would just start organizing guardian squads to protect the miners or the busy transport routes. That would be a true sandbox trait, but maybe I'm just a dreamer.

You're a funny guy smile

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Zoom, change the mission spawns to orange, then change any NON mission spawn to red.

can we get red spawns on alpha 1s big_smile

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34 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-04-13 02:34:21)

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Q:hey who wants to spend the next 5 hours camping patrol mobs and or static red mobs camping this ore spawn?

A: <crickets>

Q: (lies) come on is really rewarding and fun....

A: potential pvp everyone spark to beta

Farming mobs is fine, you need more pve content for combat bots...

roaming mobs have their place ofc...

but expecting 3-5 people to dedicate hours and hours of camping an ore field for miners...not so efficient...which is why it never happens.

Also: part of the big allure of a mining account is that I can be productive mining while I pvp or watching tv..or whatever...making mining a full focused 100% attention task isn't going to make it fun...hell that is stressful...

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Re: Dissapearing NPC's

While people will continue to try and discredit me in the 'State of the Game' thread, I fully expect it, I tried mining solo and people were pulling mobs to me.

It draws to question the very old issue with AI never breaking aggro in this game. Couple that with When you couple all these aspecs of Perpetuum together, throw in some elitist mindset about what people should and shouldn't be doing in game, the final conclusion is, this game is not ready for prime time. Steam is just going to serve to alienate even more people from Perpetuum.

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:

That's because people lure away those NPCs from there. We're thinking about a solution.

Now that we know it can be done.

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:

If you want my personal and honest opinion, it saddens me a bit that the community is still not at that point where they would just start organizing guardian squads to protect the miners or the busy transport routes. That would be a true sandbox trait, but maybe I'm just a dreamer.


Never happened on Eve no one wants to defend miners from NPCs , if there is an option to do it solo.

RIP PERPETUUM

38 (edited by Sundial 2014-04-13 16:00:14)

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Celebro wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

If you want my personal and honest opinion, it saddens me a bit that the community is still not at that point where they would just start organizing guardian squads to protect the miners or the busy transport routes. That would be a true sandbox trait, but maybe I'm just a dreamer.


Never happened on Eve no one wants to defend miners from NPCs , if there is an option to do it solo.

In EVE you have other options to defend yourself as a miner, including using a barge with a battleship sized tank (Procurer/Skiff) in trade for a little bit less yield. Its simply not feasible to suicide gank these barges.

This particular issues is different though because some of the mobs likely will have ewar and can't be permatanked because of the way shield mechanics are linked to your accumator as well as other factors such as neuting, lack of shield bonus on the Rivaler and how terrible active armor tanking is. So you can't escape and you can't permanently tank them.

As for having solo players on alpha defend themselves with combat accounts, good luck on that Zoom. You see this kind of stuff already happening by some of the larger more organized alpha groups, but that's not who this type of training is killing. Its killing the smaller group and solo alpha dwellers (the only hope of your entire game after steam). So yeah, I wouldn't dream for everyone behaving the same Zoom. You have different groups of players that all act differently, you need to consider that in balancing the game.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

39 (edited by Syndic 2014-04-13 16:02:08)

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Players defended Jita. Not as many as were burning it granted, but there was a respectable fleet size of defenders.

Think we all had a lot of fun and earned a lot of money. smile

Also, this only impacts players on Alpha 2 islands.

Alpha 1's are perfectly safe and completely orange to mine on.

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Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:

There are no reimbursements made because of this, since people have many ways to avoid those incoming NPCs. Red NPCs are aggressive, there is no change in that.

I need to correct myself here, reimbursements are being done and will be done for these cases until this is fixed, probably tomorrow.

The reason is that while it's intended that red NPCs should follow you without limits, it's not intended that they attack passive bystanders as long as the player who pulled them there is still around.

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Meaning you're making the spawns orange everywhere? big_smile

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Re: Dissapearing NPC's

No, they will simply not attack others as long as the one who pulled them is there.

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:

No, they will simply not attack others as long as the one who pulled them is there.


This goes to the back of the reimbursement line right? After those of us woh have been waiting weeks/months?

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Yes, but isn't that what orange spawns basically do? Ignore passive bystanders, only attack whoever aggresses them?

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Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Syndic wrote:

Yes, but isn't that what orange spawns basically do? Ignore passive bystanders, only attack whoever aggresses them?

The difference is that you don't need to aggress red NPCs, they will aggress you when you get in range. And they will stick to the one who they agressed first, if they can. If he dies/teleports away, the NPCs will pick a new target.

46 (edited by Tund Bungler 2014-04-13 18:53:27)

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Yes, but isn't that what orange spawns basically do? Ignore passive bystanders, only attack whoever aggresses them?

The difference is that you don't need to aggress red NPCs, they will aggress you when you get in range. And they will stick to the one who they agressed first, if they can. If he dies/teleports away, the NPCs will pick a new target.


Got it. They'll just need to add a bit of STC flavor to the current tactics for making mobs attack. Thanks for the heads up Zoom.

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Hmmm, but how does that solve anything since whoever is doing it will just swap from Bot A to for example, a Castel Mk2 with shield + speednexus right? This orange-mob stuff is new to me so I'm still figuring it out.

Out of curiosity will Landers be reimbursed too? It was impenetrable before you changed the mechanic after CHAOS stopped playing, a few piggies got very rich while nobody was playing as a consequence. smile

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Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Syndic: I'm sure people will still find ways to do it, even if not as easy as now. Then again, it's not like the potential victims have to just stand around there doing nothing, and watch as the NPCs are slowly being lead there, and then left there. (If you're AFK, that's your own fault.)

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

DEV Zoom wrote:

The difference is that you don't need to aggress red NPCs, they will aggress you when you get in range. And they will stick to the one who they agressed first, if they can. If he dies/teleports away, the NPCs will pick a new target.

So players can still lure NPCs to anyone then use mobile tp to disappear then it will make them attack the closest player?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Dissapearing NPC's

Celebro wrote:

So players can still lure NPCs to anyone then use mobile tp to disappear then it will make them attack the closest player?

Yes, but that takes even longer to do, since the teleport needs to charge.