Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Rage Blackout wrote:

The smallest thing can have a great effect on a sandbox game.

Beacon pits anyone????

Actually, I still maintain that beacon pits weren't the problem. It was rather the rate at which you could earn tokens that was the issue. Beacon pits were merely a side effect.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

I am calm. I am the calmest person here.

I dont want to have sequer.nl to be the place to go to get intel instead of playing the game.

You guys know its TMI.  Lets not make it policitcal.


Shadowmine wrote:

Tbh, Gunner. I think the best thing you can do for this topic is to stop posting and let cooler heads prevail.

You have made your opinions known to us all. But you coming on here flaming everyone who posts, is going to do nothing but muddy the waters and turn this into some sort of C/D forum war if it isn't already.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Ville wrote:

Ultimately, I am trying not to be biased on this, but it is a little hard.

It does seem to always end up exactly like that, doesn't it?

You and Stranger make valid points, but weighing them against how I feel about the metagame and how I know how well those tools work for other games, I've got to say, we need to give this a try. To have killboards is to convey what Perpetuum is about, imo.

Besides, it's not like this actually does paint a target on your back on any activity on beta and gamma, you need to die for it to register, and that data is still as ambiguous as it comes.

54 (edited by Martha Stuart 2014-04-08 01:00:47)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

I think its an fantastic feature that can be used by both sides equally.  Personally I think we should all be thanking Doek for his hard work in creating an asset that truly adds to the game.  So long as the feature can be used equally by all sides I don't see it as a problem.

Not to mention that 15 mins is plenty of time for the given information to become irrelevant.  It takes 15 mins for the information to show up on the killboard.  It take approximately 3-5 mins to get a flagged fleet off of an island.  That is well within the 15 min time frame for the website to update.

55 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-04-08 01:08:26)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Doek wrote:
Ville wrote:

Ultimately, I am trying not to be biased on this, but it is a little hard.

It does seem to always end up exactly like that, doesn't it?

You and Stranger make valid points, but weighing them against how I feel about the metagame and how I know how well those tools work for other games, I've got to say, we need to give this a try. To have killboards is to convey what Perpetuum is about, imo.

Besides, it's not like this actually does paint a target on your back on any activity on beta and gamma, you need to die for it to register, and that data is still as ambiguous as it comes.

Well you have to think about how it will be exploited and abused to understand the issue with it, as well as it shifting metagaming aspects outside of the game vs in game to really get what this will do.

I get your point though, its going to be great for your website.  Where its currently a fantastic tool to get "news" on what went down, it will become a vital intel tool...which imo...is just too much to remove that vital intel aspect out of the game and onto a website.

Just off hand I can think of this ruining traps, and exposing nora fields, not just to the people who committed the kill, but rather everyone in game.  So you get that kill, some harvester hitting nora, and well...you better GTFO now because the whole game just saw where a nora harvester died...

Yeah it probably wont have any effect on immediate pvp fleets, but it just takes too much out of the game and puts it onto a website.

Im trying to think of what benefits, other than website hits, this will add.  You think people will be more or less likely to avoid pvp hotspots if their exact locations are known?  Because people already know what two beta islands to go to for pvp...and well...seems the most pvp occurs with planned skirmishes since it seems to be getting avoided....so I don't think making specifics known will increase pvp.

My main concern is with diluting the value of good intel, having to contact people to see where that STC fleet was when someone died...and try to figure out stuff...rather than going to the internet and seeing exactly where it all went down.

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
Pillar of the Community
Ruler of Recruit Chat
CIR Ministry of Truth

56 (edited by BeastmodeGuNs 2014-04-08 01:08:29)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Martha Stuart wrote:

Not to mention that 15 mins is plenty of time for the given information to become irrelevant.  It takes 15 mins for the information to show up on the killboard.  It take approximately 3-5 mins to get a flagged fleet off of an island.  That is well within the 15 min time frame for the website to update.

That is.... until the first 60+ player fleet fight happens.... yarr

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

57 (edited by Martha Stuart 2014-04-08 01:14:34)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

So how bout this, Why don't you guys abuse the hell out of it.  If your abusing it is as bad as you say then everyone will agree with you.  If nothing changes, well then we will at least know for sure.

FOR SCIENCE!!

58 (edited by Martha Stuart 2014-04-08 01:21:26)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Stranger Danger wrote:

My main concern is with diluting the value of good intel, having to contact people to see where that STC fleet was when someone died...and try to figure out stuff...rather than going to the internet and seeing exactly where it all went down.

It takes 30 secs to PM someone and find out where we are, it takes 15 mins to show on the killboard.  How is this worse?  hell, in TS you can know before the person actually dies.  Cause said person will say, "bummer, im gonna die".  Then give you exact position and fleet composition.

how does the killboard make this worse?

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Stranger Danger wrote:

Just off hand I can think of this ruining traps, and exposing nora fields, not just to the people who committed the kill, but rather everyone in game.  So you get that kill, some harvester hitting nora, and well...you better GTFO now because the whole game just saw where a nora harvester died...

Right, I can understand the trouble with Noralgis. So hide harvester bot kills from the site?

60 (edited by Merkle 2014-04-08 01:19:39)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Stranger Danger I would agree with you if the player base was a bunch of absolute *** that have no idea where anyone plants noragis, or mines epi, or where other players live, or what routes they run, or what bots they drive, or what player is in what corp, or or or...

If I see a termis die on beta, I can guess what he is doing, if I see a Symb Die on better, I can guess what he is doing.

Look at the corp tag of who died, find there active OP, nora spotted and dead.  Wonder where your scarabs are?  Look at beta they are located on, find there alpha in point.  Scarabs found. 

Common guys this isn't rocket science, even PHM has figured it out.  ( I kid I Kid.)

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Martha Stuart wrote:

So how bout this, Why don't you guys abuse the hell out of it.  If your abusing it is as bad as you say then everyone will agree with you.  If nothing changes, well then we will at least know for sure.

FOR SCIENCE!!

This is the epitaph I want on my tomb.

62 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-04-08 01:40:50)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Merkle wrote:

Stranger Danger I would agree with you if the player base was a bunch of absolute *** that have no idea where anyone plants noragis, or mines epi, or where other players live, or what routes they run, or what bots they drive, or what player is in what corp, or or or...

If I see a termis die on beta, I can guess what he is doing, if I see a Symb Die on better, I can guess what he is doing.

Look at the corp tag of who died, find there active OP, nora spotted and dead.  Wonder where your scarabs are?  Look at beta they are located on, find there alpha in point.  Scarabs found. 

Common guys this isn't rocket science, even PHM has figured it out.  ( I kid I Kid.)


This wont effect larger alliances and clans as much as it will the smaller start ups and lone wolf people who get their kicks out of creating clever traps ect.

Its more the point of keeping the metagaming in the game vs a website is all.  Hurts the small guys most, and those who value and enjoy the intel aspect of the game.

I don't think its a game breaker, but its just as stupid as posting your cords into general chat after a death.  Doesn't make sense and it will make intel less valuable.

I don't see any advantage to it other than Doeks website becoming a vital intel tool now.

Anyway don't see a point continuing the discussion really.  CIR is against so STC must support it ect...

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
Pillar of the Community
Ruler of Recruit Chat
CIR Ministry of Truth

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Merkle wrote:

Stranger Danger I would agree with you if the player base was a bunch of absolute *** that have no idea where anyone plants noragis, or mines epi, or where other players live, or what routes they run, or what bots they drive, or what player is in what corp, or or or...

If I see a termis die on beta, I can guess what he is doing, if I see a Symb Die on better, I can guess what he is doing.

Look at the corp tag of who died, find there active OP, nora spotted and dead.  Wonder where your scarabs are?  Look at beta they are located on, find there alpha in point.  Scarabs found. 

Common guys this isn't rocket science, even PHM has figured it out.  ( I kid I Kid.)

You of all people know the Ramifications of this.  It's just ONE more tool to separate the Vets from the new players.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Stranger Danger wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Rage, you can bash me all you want, but:
1. I did not put this into the API (I'm still a graphics artist, not a coder, hence my previous post...), and I didn't even know that we had this in it before yesterday.
2. As I said this is up to the community to decide, since as you pointed out, I don't know the ramifications of this.

Syndic: we give access to the API to anyone who wants to use it and tells us what website or program he wants to use it for.


Question is, do you want intel to be acquired in game though playing?  Or do you want intel to be made available on a website?

I want this question answered.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

The guy who is known for clever ***, doesn't have a problem with it, but may in the future.  lol

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

DEV Zoom wrote:

Syndic: we give access to the API to anyone who wants to use it and tells us what website or program he wants to use it for.

Do you have any restrictions on how it can be used? Can we request API access for a website, service or program that will not be available to you or the public Perpetuum population?

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

67 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2014-04-08 03:35:20)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

so long as the API is on a delay i support showing the Coordinates of a death.

-1 to OP smile


Edit: is the Kill mail API open to the public ?

As an Ex EVE player i love what the DEVs in that game have done with their API & would love to see more features in the future with this games API!

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Obi your vote is null.  Stranger speaks for all of CIR, fall in line boy.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Retreat! http://i.imgur.com/MoS9urN.jpg

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Makes ya wonder how I kne....

Poor Arkhe.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

71 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-04-08 05:47:33)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Not sure what I think about Specific Coordinate Intel after the fact (real time is obvious disaster). I can see how its an issue now with a low population and not much data to sift through. But assuming Steam takes off my thought is that without 3rd party software it would be hard to find useful patterns. And then if would mainly be probabilities, not certainties about future action.

Far more disturbing to me is that the API is trusted to select individual(s) on some "honor" system. This may have worked in low population low budget days, but should be reigned in post Steam. Did I miss something on who gets API access?

Any real-time info should be restricted to an hour, at least. 15 minutes is not enough. I'd rather not see even a hint of a kill on the boards until that hour has passed. And game developers should have control over the timeliness of when that API gets released for public viewing, not player(s) on some fuzzy honor system. Bad bad policy.

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Merkle wrote:

Obi your vote is null.  Stranger speaks for all of CIR, fall in line boy.

YEAHHH right. stranger can kiss my hairy A22 smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Syndic wrote:

Can we request API access for a website, service or program that will not be available to you or the public Perpetuum population?

No. Besides, I have a feeling that you overestimate what this API actually is:
https://apps.perpetuum-online.com/api/docs.html

74 (edited by Rage Blackout 2014-04-08 17:55:52)

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

I am thinking back two years:

"I have a feeling you are overestimating how much terraforming people will do"

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: Dev Zoom, please remove location information from killmails API

Rage Blackout wrote:

I am thinking back to years:

"I have a feeling you are overestimating how much terraforming people will do"

What I meant is that people seem to think that this "API thing" is some secret intel channel that you can simply tap from your browser or something and get instant access to every kill data. Way to overthink again.