1 (edited by Celebro 2014-01-24 20:06:48)

Topic: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

I am not too sure, but I think there is a need.

Stacking penalty will cause fitting the same modules reduce their effectiveness, so depending on formula, fitting more than 3 affecting the same bonus, will just be a wasted slot forcing the player to think of other modules to fit instead.


Reason is most fits are bland, farming bots with support just need a full rack of them for max DPS, same with mining and to some extent some PVP bots, but I want to try more creative fits. Just having one cookie cutter fit is boring.

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Right now we have the opposite effect actually. Each additional tuners provides even more raw gain than the previous since it uses the already modified value in the calculations.

Should it be like that? Probably not.

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Actually I thought that some tuners took the modified value and other tuners used the unmodified value. I could be remembering wrong though, has been awhile since I looked into it.

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Burial is right - at least when it comes to weapon tunings. Just recognized it today while playing with fittings. Don't know about electronic warfare and industrial tunings.
Small diversity in fittings comes mainly from using support/followbots as you pointed out Celebro. Using only 1 account means you have to be creative already tongue .
As long as homogenous fittings without stacking penalty are not overpowered, i see no real reason to implement a penalty. From a subjective point of view, i'm all for a slight stacking penalty. Would slightly decrease the effectiveness of followbots. But that's just me.

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Agree with stacking penalty in concept

But NERFING is too in fashion these days and doing this requires thoughtful balancing.

This game is in desperate need of adding more bots, mods and features. The discussion on nerfing this and nerfing that is getting depressing.

6 (edited by Heliaso 2014-01-24 21:50:48)

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Maybe we stack tuning modules bceause 90% of others modules are useless.

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Burial wrote:

Right now we have the opposite effect actually. Each additional tuners provides even more raw gain than the previous since it uses the already modified value in the calculations.

Should it be like that? Probably not.


Yes that's true even when we start introducing new bots with 10 head slots its going to become a really big problem.

This is the reasoning I could find for Eve's stacking penalty implementation:

There was originally no stacking penalty. This caused all manners of havoc with players equipping many modules of the same type. Ships with many low slots would wield many damage enhancing modules for firepower that could instantly vaporize almost anything.

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Heliaso wrote:

Maybe we stack tuning modules bceause 90% of others modules are useless.

+1

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Lemon wrote:
Heliaso wrote:

Maybe we stack tuning modules bceause 90% of others modules are useless.

+1

+1

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Ofc some other modules seems useless if by your 5th tuner you can get a 65% bonus, now tell me if that is balanced.

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Less multiaccounting and you'll see the worth of your "90% useless modules".

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Ville wrote:
Lemon wrote:
Heliaso wrote:

Maybe we stack tuning modules bceause 90% of others modules are useless.

+1

+1

+1

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Jasdemi wrote:
Ville wrote:
Lemon wrote:

+1

+1

+1

+1

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Stacking penalty threads are so 2012

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Dazamin which faction you coming back too?

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:
Jasdemi wrote:
Ville wrote:

+1

+1

+1

+1-1

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Formulas

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Maybe other modules would be less useless if the choice was between tuning penalty and "useless" mod. roll

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Syndic wrote:

Maybe other modules would be less useless if the choice was between tuning penalty and "useless" mod. roll

That's the whole point of stacking penalties. Like 'let see, this tuner only gives me 2% more damage, therefore not worth fitting, so leave slot  empty for speed or add one of these 'useless' module.'?

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Could skip the diminishing return and just go with max two of a type. It's the lazy coder route to a fix I don't know is necessary or not.

Oh yeah first define if its a Problem then come up with Solutions. I broke my own rule skipping Problem and going straight to Solution. Bad me.

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

i dont think we need to nerf tuners.

it can only be used in great numbers in pve. in pvp i havent seen much bot with pure tuner fittings yet. most likely because they lack range and are too vunrable in other terms. (and i havent seen a lot SR fleets in the past)
and i think for pve its ok to power up a bot a bit...

if you give the tuner a dimishing return buff then they will become useless after two or three mods. this will limit the fitting diverity. so im pretty much against it.

if you want to remove the exponential increasement and do for a linear aproach then the solution lies in the math:
the tuners are stacking exponential because they have multible stats (dmg, rof, and cirt). each of them add multipicatively. and if you boost 3 stats multiplicativly then you have a expnential increasement.
one solution might be to reduce the bonus only to one stat (for examle dmg), but of cource a bit more of it because you remove the other two. then you will get a linear increasement for every module you add (if you get your math right).

but personaly i dont think its nessessary to nerv tunings. i think powering up dmg is ok. your other options that you loose are:
range
sensor boosting (if you dont have rsa)
ewar resistance
rep bonus
...

on the other hand a few other modules could use a boost. like the armor repair tuning that was nerved to death multible times.

22 (edited by Celebro 2014-04-08 14:59:10)

Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

i dont think we need to nerf tuners.

it can only be used in great numbers in pve. in pvp i havent seen much bot with pure tuner fittings yet. most likely because they lack range and are too vunrable in other terms. (and i havent seen a lot SR fleets in the past)
and i think for pve its ok to power up a bot a bit...

if you give the tuner a dimishing return buff then they will become useless after two or three mods. this will limit the fitting diverity. so im pretty much against it.

if you want to remove the exponential increasement and do for a linear aproach then the solution lies in the math:
the tuners are stacking exponential because they have multible stats (dmg, rof, and cirt). each of them add multipicatively. and if you boost 3 stats multiplicativly then you have a expnential increasement.
one solution might be to reduce the bonus only to one stat (for examle dmg), but of cource a bit more of it because you remove the other two. then you will get a linear increasement for every module you add (if you get your math right).

but personaly i dont think its nessessary to nerv tunings. i think powering up dmg is ok. your other options that you loose are:
range
sensor boosting (if you dont have rsa)
ewar resistance
rep bonus
...

on the other hand a few other modules could use a boost. like the armor repair tuning that was nerved to death multible times.

Where did I say a nerf to tunnings? You can buff the tuner bonus and add a penalty or remove the multiplier. Sooner or later they have to do this when we have new bots with like 10 head/leg slots then it becomes over powered.

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

I like this, as the same will be applied to extenders as well.  As well as every other mod in the game.  Really shaking up the basic foundations of PVP, and the normal fits.

It would effect PVE, but that doesn't stop you from putting all tuners in the head.

+1  Hope this happens when steam comes out.

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Re: Is there a need for stack penalty on tuners and some modules?

-1 on this whole Idea.         cool