Topic: Conserns / Predictions

First off, I dont see this working.  No need to read too much into it, but this basically isn't a good idea for a game that is of this type.

Lets do a quick comparison, GuildWars 2 to this game.  Yes there are some differences, one of which, isn't the payment model.  Look at GuildWars, successful, good game, great quality.  Lets look at Perp, good game ok quality, successful not so much.  What we are asking ourselves is why.  Why is one better, rather more successful then the other. 

Sure one is more amusement then sandbox.  If you transfer equal quality over one another you see where Perp and how this sub type falls apart.  In GW2 you have content, and I mean LOT of content.  As in *** of content.  Look at Perp, if you look objectively Perp has basically ZERO content, PVE wise. 

The Missions suck, there seems to be nearly zero immersion what so ever.  But this is what these pay model types balance on, Content. 

Ask yourselves this, will someone really pay $30 for half a game?  On the front end everything looks great.  When you get down and dirty, I think quite a bit of players that do buy, will in the end get buyers remorse.

In turn giving out more negative feedback, churning the game down faster then most will think possible.

What about future expansions?  What about them?  Sure the first few will be free, then down the line we will have to pay around $20 for content that should of been in the game when we FIRST bought the game.  This will just add insult to injury, but I honestly do not think we will get to this point.

Believe it or not, but carebears pay the bills in this new model, and as it stands now we have no carebear legs to stand on. 

I dont think this game is even nearly stable enough to support what you think is coming.  We already run around with borderline lag issues, teleport lag, unable to dock undock.  Issues Issues Issues.   Have someone pay for the game just to have them get kicked off the sever really goes a long way for player retention.

You introduce a new cash shop, in a blog, that doesn't promise anything more then the ability reset EP.  Makes Zero sense at all, AFTER we have multiple forum posts stating what to put INTO the shop.

Lastly, you STILL do not give us a way to transfer accounts from one another.  After then entire community tells you to let us, AFTER we pay a fee TO YOU ($20) AND in-game nic to the other player.

Do I see this happening and looking great in the short term, kinda not really.  Long term, good luck.

TDRL:  This model revolves around content, of which this game has little of.  Players will come in, buy the game, then leave disgusted they spent the money in the first place.  You will have a small burst of cash that quickly tapers off.  Due to the lack of content, and the lack of Dev Power.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Conserns / Predictions

I do have some of these concerns too. After years of little success in a fully sandbox model, I find that the only way out is to get more and better quality PVE content, but how long is that going to take? Every small update seems to take ages, where as during it's infancy expansion and updates were at a much faster pace.

This is not all bad news though, a quick cash injection from Steam sales could provide the game with the much needed changes and PVE content. The Devs are on the right track with this, they just need to get it right this time. Although the game's strength lies on the PVP side apparently that's not enough these days. Let's be honest here, these type of games require many hours/day to be successful and enjoy it fully, most people don't seem to have the time for this anymore.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Conserns / Predictions

~ BUT HEY LET' S BE OPTIMISTIC ! ~

From the Developers side, when the game started they may thought the game will work only with PVP, seems like they were wrong. But that still wasnt experienced, because a lots of changes has been implemented, Gamma mostly, so would be the place for that content. And after Gamma we hadn't the most needed numbers of players, so in theory if we would have plenty of players and they fight for Gamma and ON Gamma should be ok. (The Xiantor battle was engaging and most FUN! And another Gamam sieges.)

This is lastly chance to do something, so probably they decided to change because the old modell is just going to be obsolete. So lets hope to the needed numbers of players and for a Gamma revamp.

I hardly think the PVP in Perpetuum is really really good, so this is what the game about I think, so after the decent numbers of players should save the game for a bit longer than without this change.

I loved every moment with this game, so I just could sorry who didnt taste Perpetuum (probably expect EVE players). But thats ok, if you have a start you will have the end somewhere. They did a great work from Hungary (Where is a bit poor and depressed people lives. So another props to them!)

~ BUT HEY LET' S BE OPTIMISTIC ! ~

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Cash shop needs more.  A lot more.

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Re: Conserns / Predictions

Welcome to what we've been saying for 2 years.

Perp needs a minimum ~800 concurrent players in order to be fun, otherwise players are just mining/grinding for the sake of mining/grinding. If Steam doesn't significantly flood the population then the game is going down the toilet clear and simple, there's simply no way to go back to a sub model after F2P and there's no "lets be optimistic". The time for optimism is long over, it's time for a dose of realism.

However, at this point we should collectively take a break from posting negative stuff. Yes, we all know what Zoom&company are, but lets save it for a few months in the future. Let the steamlings enjoy the game if they can.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: Conserns / Predictions

The game needs a good war.

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Re: Conserns / Predictions

Getting more people into the game is far more important that preserving veteran advantages, or keeping the game "eve pure"

You simply cant say something doesn't work well for a game like this, then cite guild wars 2 as an example.  The only thing out there like perpetuum is eve, and eve hasn't really strayed much in its business model.


Removing a subscription is SMART for this game.  You give existing players the ability to pick up and play the game whenever they want.  You also remove the *** stigma that subscriptions are bad and expensive from new players.

Fill the cash shop up with goofy ***, I don't care, give the new player ability to jump ahead and be on par with everyone else for a price, don't care....This game cant/wont survive with a few hundred active players. 

Game needs a steady and decent population, which imo, might be possible without many new players granted existing ones could come and go freely....and yes it needs a good war...nothing makes people go play other games more than enemies that run from a fight consistently. 

Oh and trust me, the steamlings are going to have big issues with paying $30 for a game that isn't a high fidelity Titanfall/Call of Duty caliber game.  Not all, but a lot, and they will be very vocal on the steam forums.  This games going to need to be VERY honest on steam, and not appear to be a mech FPS, or a world of mechcraft.

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Re: Conserns / Predictions

Syndic wrote:

Perp needs a minimum ~800 concurrent players in order to be fun

I could'nt agree more tbh.

Zoom did mention he is expecting much more than the Eve exodus and the $30 price tag is to lower the amount of players coming, because they were not sure if thousands of players could break their game. I still think lowering the price is a good idea despite the risk, because it might be the only chance they have, when the hype is high on Steam release.

Lets try on be optimistic here: 30$x 1000 new accounts = $30,000.

Whilst $20x 2000 new accounts = $40,000 plus much more Perpetuum Credit sales, and much more pvp happening. This should keep the ball rolling.

After the hype is gone lowering the price might make little difference though.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Celebro wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Perp needs a minimum ~800 concurrent players in order to be fun

I could'nt agree more tbh.

Zoom did mention he is expecting much more than the Eve exodus and the $30 price tag is to lower the amount of players coming, because they were not sure if thousands of players could break their game. I still think lowering the price is a good idea despite the risk, because it might be the only chance they have, when the hype is high on Steam release.

Lets try on be optimistic here: 30$x 1000 new accounts = $30,000.

Whilst $20x 2000 new accounts = $40,000 plus much more Perpetuum Credit sales, and much more pvp happening. This should keep the ball rolling.

After the hype is gone lowering the price might make little difference though.


Hope hes right about more than eve-exodus.  This time around theres actually sandbox content to keep those kinds of players.

Only fear I have, its not going to be eve players who get this type of game.  Its going to be people who go "oh look another mech game and I don't have it" the go "meh Hawken is way better"

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Re: Conserns / Predictions

In a sandbox players create the content.

Right now a good section of the playerbase deliberately denies content as a tactic. In the new order these flacid individuals will be purged and a new game will be born where people play the game to play it rather than to protect their pile of stuff.

I for one look forward to it.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Conserns / Predictions

There have been a couple games that did better when they went f2p. I think PoTBS was one that did better.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Jita wrote:

In a sandbox players create the content.

Right now a good section of the playerbase deliberately denies content as a tactic. In the new order these flacid individuals will be purged and a new game will be born where people play the game to play it rather than to protect their pile of stuff.

I for one look forward to it.

Problem right now is there's hardly anything worth fighting over.

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Put a few scarabs of T4 in a field can on Beta, see how quickly that becomes worth fighting over. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Conserns / Predictions

be positive

for years the perp pro-gamers said, playercount is everthing that matters, and nothing is wrong with the game.

so if the server doesn't crash for several days or is unplayable upon launch, everything will be fine.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Burial wrote:
Jita wrote:

In a sandbox players create the content.

Right now a good section of the playerbase deliberately denies content as a tactic. In the new order these flacid individuals will be purged and a new game will be born where people play the game to play it rather than to protect their pile of stuff.

I for one look forward to it.

Problem right now is there's hardly anything worth fighting over.

Fighting is worth fighting over. That's why you don't get it and ultimately that's why you will fail.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

16 (edited by Martha Stuart 2014-04-01 19:30:51)

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Jita wrote:
Burial wrote:
Jita wrote:

In a sandbox players create the content.

Right now a good section of the playerbase deliberately denies content as a tactic. In the new order these flacid individuals will be purged and a new game will be born where people play the game to play it rather than to protect their pile of stuff.

I for one look forward to it.

Problem right now is there's hardly anything worth fighting over.

Fighting is worth fighting over. That's why you don't get it and ultimately that's why you will fail.

No, fighting for fighting's sake is not worth fighting over, hence why the games population dropped multiple times.  Historically speaking, all conflicts boil down too 1 of 2 things.  Resources and ideology.  Traditional Ideology means nothing in this game, because there is no religion and no one cares if a corp is commie or capitalist.  That leaves resources and revenge.

Unless there is something to drive conflict there will be no conflict.  There will be small skirmishes for *** and giggles, but unless there is something worth fighting over there will not be any large sustained conflict.

Right now, this game is one of the biggest D*ck waving contests i have ever seen.  All PVP in this game, as of right now, revolves around the kill boards.  People fight so they can go onto the kill boards and post there little jabs and stupid comments.  That's it, and once people get board with that, they leave.  Which is sad, cause this game has some of the most exciting PVP of any game I have ever played.

Re: Conserns / Predictions

We have something to fight for it's called Epriton.  The reason we don't need it, is because "we" collectively abused the *** out of turtle islands.  There's no need for traditional production either.  Why beacon pits.  Already found the work around.  I spent two weeks teaching new players how to resource gather for pvp, I discovered something.  You appreciate that T2 and T3 drops more than popping 39 beacons at once.  There's no need to fight when you already have everything.

And it's usually at this stage in a MMO life cycle that it's made useless by new gear, levels, class, ships.  These people from steam will give us that.  A reason to fight.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Conserns / Predictions

Ville wrote:

These people from steam will give us that.  A reason to fight.

Hope that you right.

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Fighting has never been about resources, its always been about fun. Did M2S need resources when raiding hoop? Did CIR lack epriton when kicking ecorp out? Was the assault on Berger's about stuff?

People fight because they like to plant a flag and call it theirs. Some people like to plant a flag and play farmville, others like to beat each other to death with the flagpole.

It has never been about resources or ideology - some of the games biggest opponents are now allies and visa versa.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

20 (edited by Martha Stuart 2014-04-01 19:42:44)

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Jita wrote:

Fighting has never been about resources, its always been about fun. Did M2S need resources when raiding hoop? Did CIR lack epriton when kicking ecorp out? Was the assault on Berger's about stuff?

People fight because they like to plant a flag and call it theirs. Some people like to plant a flag and play farmville, others like to beat each other to death with the flagpole.

It has never been about resources or ideology - some of the games biggest opponents are now allies and visa versa.

My point exaclty.  Where is M2S now?  why did CIR stop playing 3 times?  Where are all the old guard corps?  If there is no point to fight, beyond bragging rights, people get bored and stop playing.  There was no sustained driver of conflict.  It was a pissing contest.  That's it.

Re: Conserns / Predictions

People get bored when the fights stop. When it becomes more work than fun. When they get blueballed by opponents or ground down by the mechanics in game required to get fights. When the game lacks the needed risk factors to make fighting territory based rather than objective.

Those people left because the game allowed fear to be a tactical choice. Its the equivalent of a team barricading the doors and windows in COD and a failure in mechanics.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Just add a bunch of solo pve content, so players can accrue EP, learn the finer mechanics, and get pulled into the sandbox.

Re: Conserns / Predictions

This game is a numbers game and always will be. The person on top will always be the one with the most people. Hasn't changed in the 3 years I've been here, won't change in the next 3. Skill helps, and can change the course of a battle, but it won't win the overall war.

Martha is right this is just a pissing contest, you just have to read the forums to see that.

Re: Conserns / Predictions

I am half carebear, I like to mine, and make things. These types that join this game are going to be looking at from that view point. They are going to ask themselves these questions. Can I mine in relative safety? How hard is the learning curve to be able to produce stuff? Is this a game where I can do things on my own, or do I really need a corp/guild? Does the quality of the item I make mean anything or is it cookie cutter? And depending on how each carebear feels about the answers to those questions will determine if they stay or go.

I am also half PVP kind of a guy. I just need a target, a bottle of water, a bag of chips, some extra ammo, and I am ready to fight till I pop.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

Re: Conserns / Predictions

Reasons for fighting depend on the people involved and can be many.
Opportunity for fights to happen depends on game mechanics.

If you are happy with honorable arranged fights then you have to find other people who are into the same thing.
If you like ganking industrials, there has to be enough of a reward for people to be risking their industrial bots out on the field.
If you want to fight for territory, the defenders have to feel that defending is not futile.
If you just want lots of kills, again there has to be some reason for people to be out on the field.

imo the more potential opportunities for conflicts to occur, the less likely it is that game-play will become stale.

+1
-Confucius