Topic: Improved NPC AI

We have deployed an improved NPC AI to the test server, so you can try that too besides the new tutorial. (It's recommended that you try it on the normal zones of course.)

The improvement lies mostly in their movement, for example previously they could only follow you accurately if you stood still, and you could easily move out of their range this way.

2 (edited by Celebro 2014-03-10 18:35:50)

Re: Improved NPC AI

NPC do advance whilst moving but they seem to get stuck at around 250m ranges, moving back and forth between a 10m range, as though they can't find their target player.


Edit: If I move closer sometimes it manages to track you down again, but I still find it easy to kite them.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Improved NPC AI

The do have a "home range", so they won't follow you to the end of the world. Probably that's the 250m, although that seems a bit short.

Re: Improved NPC AI

DEV Zoom wrote:

The do have a "home range", so they won't follow you to the end of the world. Probably that's the 250m, although that seems a bit short.


really it should be 1km smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Improved NPC AI

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

The do have a "home range", so they won't follow you to the end of the world. Probably that's the 250m, although that seems a bit short.


really it should be 1km smile

Sadly it's not that simple due to the mission objective ranges, where you can lure them out of the objective area and it won't trigger. (And we really should get rid of that system somehow.)

Re: Improved NPC AI

DEV Zoom wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

The do have a "home range", so they won't follow you to the end of the world. Probably that's the 250m, although that seems a bit short.


really it should be 1km smile

Sadly it's not that simple due to the mission objective ranges, where you can lure them out of the objective area and it won't trigger. (And we really should get rid of that system somehow.)

So if you lure them out you can lure them back in, as long as the trigger area is marked, it's not a huge deal.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Improved NPC AI

Celebro wrote:

So if you lure them out you can lure them back in, as long as the trigger area is marked, it's not a huge deal.

Yeah, maybe we'll just leave it to that. We have a system where we can make a difference in homerange depending whether the NPC is in combat or not. So one thing we could do is ignore homerange completely while it's in combat.

Another thing we're planning is that if you don't attack an NPC for some time, it will stop chasing you and return within its home range. This would make escaping possible if you are losing.

8 (edited by Celebro 2014-03-11 00:15:01)

Re: Improved NPC AI

The above sounds great give us a 1km range for testing, and let's see how it goes.

I also noticed there is some difficulty for NPC's to follow you when there is too many obstacles around like plants, and impassible terrain, (they tend to follow weird paths, instead using a more efficient path). Making it quite easy to kite.

So if you can improve the NPC 'autopilot' to act more naturally like a player, that would be awesome. Easier said than done I guess wink

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Improved NPC AI

Yeah proper pathfinding is expensive regarding server resources.

But the new version is out on the test server now:
- No home range while the NPC is in combat.
- It will forget you if you get 1km away from it at any point and return to its home range.

The "forget you when you're not attacking it" feature will be added in later.

10 (edited by Celebro 2014-03-11 00:55:46)

Re: Improved NPC AI

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yeah proper pathfinding is expensive regarding server resources.

But the new version is out on the test server now:
- No home range while the NPC is in combat.
- It will forget you if you get 1km away from it at any point and return to its home range.

The "forget you when you're not attacking it" feature will be added in later.

Seems to be working as intended, those NPCs are bad *** now. big_smile

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Improved NPC AI

Nice. big_smile

Re: Improved NPC AI

Celebro wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Yeah proper pathfinding is expensive regarding server resources.

But the new version is out on the test server now:
- No home range while the NPC is in combat.
- It will forget you if you get 1km away from it at any point and return to its home range.

The "forget you when you're not attacking it" feature will be added in later.

Seems to be working as intended, those NPCs are bad *** now. big_smile

wow really ??? You mean like they used to be back in the old days ? big_smile

I have a glimmer of hope once again ! wink

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Improved NPC AI

DEV Zoom wrote:

The "forget you when you're not attacking it" feature will be added in later.

This is part of the live patch now.

Re: Improved NPC AI

Good old time i could farm T5 roaming spawns in a waspish ! Good good

Keep it up devs ! TOGGIES are supporting you : ))

15 (edited by Celebro 2014-03-12 16:08:52)

Re: Improved NPC AI

Patch notes wrote:

'''New:''' Improved NPC AI - Their movement should be much better and responsive, most notably they won't stand still if you are moving. New behavior rules have been also added: while an NPC is aggressing you it will follow you without considering any range limits. However, it will stop chasing you if you move 1km away from it, or you stop attacking it for at least 30 seconds. (When you're trying to flee the latter will probably happen sooner.)

Looks promising. Finally more challenging gameplay hopefully. big_smile

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Improved NPC AI

Sorry I wasn't perfectly clear with that 30 sec rule: this doesn't really work with aggressive (red) NPCs, only with orange ones.

Red NPCs will also stop attacking you after 30 secs if you're passive, but they will naturally re-engage almost immediately because of their aggressivity. (Otherwise we would only have passive orange NPCs on all islands.)

We'll try to make an exception of this rule for red NPCs, because it's a bit annoying if they constantly lock and unlock you every 30 seconds.

Re: Improved NPC AI

DEV Zoom wrote:

Sorry I wasn't perfectly clear with that 30 sec rule: this doesn't really work with aggressive (red) NPCs, only with orange ones.

Red NPCs will also stop attacking you after 30 secs if you're passive, but they will naturally re-engage almost immediately because of their aggressivity. (Otherwise we would only have passive orange NPCs on all islands.)

We'll try to make an exception of this rule for red NPCs, because it's a bit annoying if they constantly lock and unlock you every 30 seconds.

so they dont kill none aggressive targets (like miners and RAD) anymore?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Improved NPC AI

What I mean is that the 30 second rule should not apply to red NPCs at all because it makes no sense.

19 (edited by Jita 2014-03-13 04:24:59)

Re: Improved NPC AI

nvm

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Improved NPC AI

so how does all this effect red observer roaming spawns? Will they hunt you down mercilessly across an island like they once did?

please say yes smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

21 (edited by HeavyMetal 2014-03-13 12:08:38)

Re: Improved NPC AI

NEW NPC AI is a little Too Aggressive now, They come at you from over 600m away now, the NON-Aggro ones that is.   This is on the Live Server by the way.

Re: Improved NPC AI

HeavyMetal wrote:

NEW NPC AI is a little Too Aggressive now, They come at you from over 600m away now, the NON-Aggro ones that is.   This is on the Live Server by the way.

The orange ones you mean? I got another report of them attacking without the player agressing them, but I can't really reproduce it. Any hints?

23 (edited by Capt Blade 2014-03-13 15:16:12)

Re: Improved NPC AI

Zoom, I am not sure how an orange spawn just agro me, at first I thought was a rogue npc. Once I target him the rest of the spawn lock and target me. Another question, before the patch if we attack a spawn of npc's (orange) only the same name and type would agro the player, now its the whole spawn. I am not 100% sure (and with randomly orange spawn aggro, I am not going to do any more testing) but if you are under 1 km away from spawn and trying to kite a single npc from the group of spawn. Even if they don't have you lock or if you don't have them lock,the 30 seconds doesn't work they still keep following you. Before the patch npc (orange) same type and name work as one, after the patch they whole spawn counting respawns work as one, Is this a bug or a change to the AI ?

New: Improved NPC AI - Their movement should be much better and responsive, most notably they won't stand still if you are moving. New behavior rules have been also added: while an NPC is aggressing you it will follow you without considering any range limits. However, it will stop chasing you if you move 1km away from it, or you stop attacking it for at least 30 seconds. (When you're trying to flee the latter will probably happen sooner.) Note: the 30 seconds rule only works for orange (passive) NPCs, since red (aggressive) NPCs will re-engage you all the time even if you are not attacking them.

Patch Notes doesn't say anything about the change to the npc name and type.

Re: Improved NPC AI

DEV Zoom wrote:
HeavyMetal wrote:

NEW NPC AI is a little Too Aggressive now, They come at you from over 600m away now, the NON-Aggro ones that is.   This is on the Live Server by the way.

The orange ones you mean? I got another report of them attacking without the player agressing them, but I can't really reproduce it. Any hints?

Undock in Combat Bot @ Tellesis and watch the Orange NPC's come to u WITHOUT Locking them.

Re: Improved NPC AI

Seems like they get angry now if they see remote support being done around them smile