Topic: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Currently the game mechanic allows for deletion of assets in personal and corp folders without restriction.

First of all, I totally get it. When the destruction of a Gamma base is imminent, deleting assets makes sense so that they do not get into enemy hands. I would do it every time (because game mechanics currently allow it).

In PvP when you are locked/aggressed it is NOT possible to delete the assets in your cargo. So I will presume the Devs have the idea that deleting assets in imminent danger of destruction is not good. So why not do something similar with sieged terminals on Gamma.

There are probably a few mechanics that can be adjusted to accomplish the goal so I will not suggest a specific change, but clearly there should be some restriction to deleting assets once a terminal has entered reinforced mode.

I believe this change would incentivize more Gamma PvP as enemy would be ensured asset payout upon success. Right now the only incentives for aggressing Gammas are Greifing and/or Revenge. Both are pretty negative. Lets add a business angle to PvP on Gamma.

I'm sure more can be said, but I'll flesh out more if the topic progresses.

Also, timing of the change is obviously important since 'my side' is aggressing a Gamma. I'm not suggesting a hot fix tonight, so lets see if 'your side' can make an argument about GAME MECHANICS that does not COMPLETELY bleed into corp discussions.

If shoe was on other foot, would you want your enemy deleting assets?

Question Devs: is asset deletion a good Game Mechanic for a base under siege?

Sparking to other games

2 (edited by Rage Blackout 2013-12-24 01:59:45)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

The Idea:

A gamma station can only let players destroy items if there is a Recycling Facility operational.

If that facility is destroyed, then the option to "Destroy" on the item right click menu is greyed out. This forces people to make decisions.

A player can get rid of stuff by placing in a can outside then the can decays.

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Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Players could just move assets to bot cargo hold, undock and delete. Sure it would make it inconvienent but it wouldn't really resolve the problem like it did with the cargo restriction. I think you may even be able to delete your inventory without triggering destabilization.

Certainly can't stop players from removing assets from a seiged terminal.

Sorry, did I take the wrong side smile

I would say deleting items isn't a desirable mechanic, but I don't see a specific way to prevent it.

4 (edited by Rex Amelius 2013-12-24 02:17:20)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

No Arga, you posted a thoughtful response as usual, even if not directly in support.

But in principal you seem to agree and I'd like to see Defenders undock in haulers next to a *** caged terminal. Eventually they would run out of haulers. big_smile

Besides, 'restrict' does not have to mean 'make impossible"

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5 (edited by Rage Blackout 2013-12-24 02:29:01)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Yup they could, but that takes time.  Not as easy as doing it in station.

They have a chance of losing that Cargo bot though if they dont dock fast enough or get the "black screen" ive been hearing so much about.



Arga wrote:

Players could just move assets to bot cargo hold, undock and delete. Sure it would make it inconvienent but it wouldn't really resolve the problem like it did with the cargo restriction. I think you may even be able to delete your inventory without triggering destabilization.

Certainly can't stop players from removing assets from a seiged terminal.

Sorry, did I take the wrong side smile

I would say deleting items isn't a desirable mechanic, but I don't see a specific way to prevent it.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

6 (edited by Arga 2013-12-24 02:34:01)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

If I recall, it's a 50% drop rate for items on the terminal.

Restricting deletion just makes it more tedious, and like you say you'd do it if the situation was reversed because *** them smile

In the current case, with the '*** cage' deployed, they would certainly undock all the bots and delete modules, leaving at most minerals. And who wants to haul 10000M units of Titanium anyway. In the case without *** cages, it's 100% effective, but just a PTA.

Makes more sense to think about changing the mechanic so that some small % of items deleted during a seige have a chance to respawn if the terminal is destroyed X hours after coming out of siege. Even then, if it was me I would cargo delete the T4's and suicide the bots.

Even better though, would be if the corps would undock and acutally fight with the assests since they knew they were going to lose them anyway *shrug*

7 (edited by Gunner 2013-12-28 20:29:38)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

this needs to be addressed


yeah 14 day recycle bin



bomb idea

8 (edited by Burial 2013-12-28 21:18:05)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Deconning terminal and completely erasing all of the loot is no-longer possible. You will have 50% chance of getting the loot from people's personal storages who didn't delete it.

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

I'd personally like to see a feature where hauler bots can't undock a terminal in reinforcement state

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10 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-12-29 05:54:36)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Rex Amelius wrote:

If shoe was on other foot, would you want your enemy deleting assets?

I completely agree with you.  "Our side" has already been screwed out of huge quantities of loot on multiple occasions by this.

I say change it so its not possible to destroy anything in storage while terminal is reinforced.

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Gunner wrote:

this needs to be addressed


yeah 14 day recycle bin



bomb idea

+1 for 7 day recycle bin

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Martha Stuart wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

If shoe was on other foot, would you want your enemy deleting assets?

I completely agree with you.  "Our side" has already been screwed out of huge quantities of loot on multiple occasions by this.

I say change it so its not possible to destroy anything in storage while terminal is reinforced.

I disagree, it's your stuff you should have the right to do whatever you like with it. Should not matter if terminal is reinforced or not. Once you start moving down that path where do you stop?

If you believe strongly that stuff should not be able to be deleted, then just don't delete your stuff. You still have that choice you know..

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Nothing makes sense about what you are saying.

Clicking a button to remove a zillion items is what doesnt makes sense.



Blocker wrote:
Martha Stuart wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

If shoe was on other foot, would you want your enemy deleting assets?

I completely agree with you.  "Our side" has already been screwed out of huge quantities of loot on multiple occasions by this.

I say change it so its not possible to destroy anything in storage while terminal is reinforced.

I disagree, it's your stuff you should have the right to do whatever you like with it. Should not matter if terminal is reinforced or not. Once you start moving down that path where do you stop?

If you believe strongly that stuff should not be able to be deleted, then just don't delete your stuff. You still have that choice you know..

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Blocker wrote:
Martha Stuart wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

If shoe was on other foot, would you want your enemy deleting assets?

I completely agree with you.  "Our side" has already been screwed out of huge quantities of loot on multiple occasions by this.

I say change it so its not possible to destroy anything in storage while terminal is reinforced.

I disagree, it's your stuff you should have the right to do whatever you like with it. Should not matter if terminal is reinforced or not. Once you start moving down that path where do you stop?

If you believe strongly that stuff should not be able to be deleted, then just don't delete your stuff. You still have that choice you know..

+1.  I mean in the cause of Tamas who really wants to haul 1000 T4 cargo and chassis scanners to alpha?

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15 (edited by Cassius 2014-01-01 01:44:26)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Loot drops from destroyed terminals are nice indeed but its not the only source of loot from a destroyed Gamma.

I would say no to placing restrictions on terminals under siege. Does this mean a restiction like no SpT to a terminal under seige/in reinforcement should also be considered? I don't think so.

There are many differences between bots on the ground and terminals .. lumping them together with the same mechanics is not good.

So I vote no, even though this likely means less loot for me in the future.

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Rex Amelius wrote:

I believe this change would incentivize more Gamma PvP as enemy would be ensured asset payout upon success. Right now the only incentives for aggressing Gammas are Greifing and/or Revenge. Both are pretty negative. Lets add a business angle to PvP on Gamma.

Seriously? You must be attacking the wrong gammas...... Terminal loot, and gamma loot in general is pretty awesome in its current state. I have seen 1000's of u dropped from terminals as it is now, not to mention the hundreds of structures that are usually taken over at the same time. How much more do you need? They are already the best loot drops in the game as is...

Convenient timing on this post too, eh? smile

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Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Having it tied to the recycling facility makes more sense if your looking from a lore standpoint. It should server a secondary purpose. Its not like items appear or disappear in to thin air.

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Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Shadowmine wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

I believe this change would incentivize more Gamma PvP as enemy would be ensured asset payout upon success. Right now the only incentives for aggressing Gammas are Greifing and/or Revenge. Both are pretty negative. Lets add a business angle to PvP on Gamma.

Seriously? You must be attacking the wrong gammas...... Terminal loot, and gamma loot in general is pretty awesome in its current state. I have seen 1000's of u dropped from terminals as it is now, not to mention the hundreds of structures that are usually taken over at the same time. How much more do you need? They are already the best loot drops in the game as is...

Convenient timing on this post too, eh? smile

I can imagine that a ton of loot would drop from a Gamma base whose players are inactive. Having no knowledge that the base is under siege inactive players would not be able to delete assets. However when a base under siege has ACTIVE players, they can easily delete their assets once defeat is imminent. My experience is much different that yours and yes, I want MORE!!!!

Also, regarding timing. I'm not asking for hot fix. But Xiantor is over now so there really is no reason not to change it for reasons of current siege. Only aggression happening on Gamma is da North, so perhaps you should wish for speedy fix before I delete all my loot once your epic fleets arrive.

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Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

I didnt like to delete assets at Xiantor.

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18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

20 (edited by Cassius 2014-01-02 01:41:38)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

The upcoming SpT changes which will limit the number of terminals one can spark to will increase your loot drop at a encirlced Terminal, as some players will not be able to get to the terminal and empty their private folders.
With the current state of the game politics, Your side may be strong enough to possibly penetrate one of our Gammas and you would probably get a decent haul from some of the terminals. (I'm not asking or goading you into coming, just saying it as it is). These are the Terminals filled with players who have long left the game and have craploads of T4.

But really Shadow is right. The terminals are not the main source of loot, taking structures is far more lucrative.

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

I don't like the idea that you can't delete anything at all unless you had a recycling facility, as this would affect a lot terminals where you like to delete crab like old scan items just to get  better overview over stuff inside cargo.

What about a building that can be connected to enemy terminal in quite short range that prevents deleting of stuff active?

22 (edited by Hunter 2014-01-02 12:53:44)

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

...it seem there are people who not understand the problem of assets in MMO. I'll try to explain once. If you will cry about saving the assets - this will be your problem. If the DeV's will implement what did you ask - this will be not only yout, but also their and server problem. So...

The player's side (i mean all players summary) must lose as much as it possible. There are shall not be the process of accumulation the assets. - this is the rule of all games.

Explanation:
1) If the player will get enough or even more, he wont play to get more.
2) If the one faction win the other and get their assets - will be disbalance.
3) Disinflation same bad thing like inflation.

Actually there are really a lot of reasons why you should not get the enemy assets. Main reason is #1 - You shall not stop mine ores, run assignments and manufacture. You always should be poor. If you use mk2/t4 heavies everytime - you should know - this is are really bad signal for server's economy.

...now you can argue and troll.

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Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Yes but we have Alfas you know.

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18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

Hunter wrote:

...it seem there are people who not understand the problem of assets in MMO...

big_smile

Nice post.

+1

To topic author: What a ridiculous request...

Re: Restrict Ability to Delete Gamma Assets Under Seige

It is very easy to increase gamma pvp to be honest:
New facility "SyperHybrid8000 factory"
this facility will build bots from precious gamma resources, like colixium ant someshiitixium, f.e. very rare ore. This bot will be 50% EW, 50% DPS. Or 50% hauler, 50% miner. Like: 5% to damage output and 3% per neutralisation output for lets say tyranos mk3. Theese bots will be slightly beter over mk2 bots and ATTENTION DEVS: you can reuse factory, bots and module 3D models to make implementation faster. This will encourage PvP and your life on gamma, with a bit of efforts.

I dedicate this idea to Dev Gargaj, best PP dev