1,126 (edited by Gunner 2013-11-23 03:20:35)

Re: Spark Teleports

beta islands are 2-4 jump locations, not just 1.

possibly limiting it to one will reduce the "force projection" effect of the instant spt.





I hope he adds the distance cost too, that is really important in putting a control on the jump frequency.

1,127

Re: Spark Teleports

Common Gunner, Lobo/Burials solution actually delt with the problem, and carried the load of Alpha and gamma users.

You and I already know how we will get around this in the long term.  It doesn't take sparks to hold outposts.  It takes people.

All this is doing is adding in one tele to get to where ever we want.   

Hell at this point I'm all for just doing whatever you want with Gamma/Alpha Sparks, and limiting us to only ONE Beta spark period. 

Really I would love to see 2 Alpha 1 Beta, 2 Gamma Sparks Ever, Period.

We have been using the coding as a excuse for many a age.    When someone *** up a website code, you dont just say, oh I guess that's how it is, its too hard to fix.  Na, you fix it.  We have 40 something pages saying how big of a problem this is and we want to backpedal and say its too hard to code so we cant fix the problem.

With a simpler system there is no need to add in more controls, timer, higher cost to jump.  Simple is always better.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:
Estamel Tharch0n wrote:

Yes it does it fixes the issue were one can hold it all.   this was a issue whit the game and a bad mechanic and you know it.

The point now is that it gets tedious to take all the betas like u have for the last 9 months.
Its also your side that keeps complaining abouth no pvp after patch and im pointing out the current state of pvp were there is barely any...

Maybe I'm not making this clear enough for you.  What i am trying to say is this:  Either remove SpT all together, and re-build the tele system and tele beacons for easier transport.  Or leave Spt system intact.  A half-assed band-aid is not gonna solve anything. 

I would like to point out a major flaw in the incoming system.  With 10 sparks tokens, we can still spark to 3 beta islands.  which means within about 5 mins we can still be anywhere, on any island.  The change that is coming has not fixed anything.  Do you see what I'm trying to say?

Fix the problem, or leave it alone.


I still dont think u acualy see whats wrong whit the current one......

That u can place 3 alpha sparks yes thats true.  No one said it was perfect but alot better than what it is now.
You still have to move out to the outpost or sap u whant to deffend  and u cant stream ppl out from outposts as ppl log in when a fight takes place...  u know those that whants to come to the fight will acualy have to spend some time moving to it.....   

I still think Gamma needs to have 3 points but w/e a change is a change for the better.

1,129

Re: Spark Teleports

I know exactly how you wish to fight.  I know what you want out of the game. 

I would, however, rather actually take care of the problem and not put a small band-aid on it.

Your jumping at the chance of change just for the sake of change.  Not taking a step back of what you think you want and what is needed to fix the problem.

Now you have it, with no change, and were starting to back pedal saying it is enough, when in fact very little has changed at all. 

I would rather not settle for mediocrity when I can strive for greatness.   Especially, when the time to fix the issue at hand is NOW, unlike when more people come into the game.

Stop, Think, Take some time, and do this correct.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Spark Teleports

Merkle wrote:

I know exactly how you wish to fight.  I know what you want out of the game. 

I would, however, rather actually take care of the problem and not put a small band-aid on it.

Your jumping at the chance of change just for the sake of change.  Not taking a step back of what you think you want and what is needed to fix the problem.

Now you have it, with no change, and were starting to back pedal saying it is enough, when in fact very little has changed at all. 

I would rather not settle for mediocrity when I can strive for greatness.   Especially, when the time to fix the issue at hand is NOW, unlike when more people come into the game.

Stop, Think, Take some time, and do this correct.


There has been some good ideas how ever your ppl keep saying the current mechanics are fine and nothing wrong whit it.   

At this point after all this time saying stp is broken this change is better than the broken that we have right now.
There are many things wrong whit this game that gives players no reason to go to beta/gamma and whant to risk their bots for no gain.

1,131

Re: Spark Teleports

Merkle wrote:

I know exactly how you wish to fight.  I know what you want out of the game. 

I would, however, rather actually take care of the problem and not put a small band-aid on it.

Your jumping at the chance of change just for the sake of change.  Not taking a step back of what you think you want and what is needed to fix the problem.

Now you have it, with no change, and were starting to back pedal saying it is enough, when in fact very little has changed at all. 

I would rather not settle for mediocrity when I can strive for greatness.   Especially, when the time to fix the issue at hand is NOW, unlike when more people come into the game.

Stop, Think, Take some time, and do this correct.

Hey mate... They are not listen... neutral
They lives in the other world...

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

1,132

Re: Spark Teleports

I don't think that's true.

Personally I'd rather band aid now, fix when they can rather than running around all bleeding to death. I don't think anyone thinks the spark change is perfect but it is a bit better.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

1,133

Re: Spark Teleports

This is insainaty at its finest.  We now have low pop, with players who are willing to bend over backwards to get the game going again.

But, now is not the time to fix things?  We, Everyone, have already proven that we are not going anywhere.  Were staying here for the long haul.  So why are we now all of a sudden not wanting to take a bit, rather a small amount of time, to get the problem fixed rather then the band aid.

The patient is already on life support.  Throwing a band aid on him now will only prolong its death, I would rather be the smart doctor and fix the hemorrhage rather then killing the respected game.

We have a great Idea here, that both sides agree on.  Its several pages up, Lobo, and Burials Idea works, and fixes the problem.  It increase beta traffic and keeps Alpha and Gamma users sound.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

1,134

Re: Spark Teleports

Merkle wrote:

This is insainaty at its finest.  We now have low pop, with players who are willing to bend over backwards to get the game going again.

But, now is not the time to fix things?  We, Everyone, have already proven that we are not going anywhere.  Were staying here for the long haul.  So why are we now all of a sudden not wanting to take a bit, rather a small amount of time, to get the problem fixed rather then the band aid.

The patient is already on life support.  Throwing a band aid on him now will only prolong its death, I would rather be the smart doctor and fix the hemorrhage rather then killing the respected game.

We have a great Idea here, that both sides agree on.  Its several pages up, Lobo, and Burials Idea works, and fixes the problem.  It increase beta traffic and keeps Alpha and Gamma users sound.

What exactly is the 'problem' that isn't being addressed?

For me, the problem this is solving is force projection. Specifically the ability to use SpT tactically instead of strategically and I think it does fix it by requiring players to weigh the advantages of having SpT to location A over B.

1,135

Re: Spark Teleports

we had 10 spark tp

we will 5 spark tp (if you would live on PVP islands)

we will focus to specific terminals not the all

win/win at first

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Spark Teleports

Inda wrote:

we had 10 spark tp

we will 5 spark tp (if you would live on PVP islands)

we will focus to specific terminals not the all

win/win at first

belive it is Betas 3+1 Alpha 1

1,137

Re: Spark Teleports

The only insanity is leaving this ridiculous force projection mechanic on for so long. Good decision by the Devs to nerf this considerably, although force projection can still HAPPEN it cannot be abused as badly. Lets look at the future, because balancing for game for low population, is just planning for failure.

Let me make a few suggestion that need to be added, there definitely needs to be a cooldown to switch SPT targets.

Also there has to be a higher NIC cost without affecting new players. Since this is a force projection issue and higher EP agents can force project more, cost of 1 SPT is 1 NIC per EP spent, if its too much halve it, but its still a small advantage new player will have, probably the only one.

I would add a cooldown to spark, but since devs don't agree with players waiting around, then the confirmed solution on this other thread is the next best thing.

Celebro's body guard

1,138

Re: Spark Teleports

Its about coding time, in my opion.  Zooms current idea is easier to add to the game.  It can be further tweaked later.

This is the first solution that the majority can live with.

By the way, the few people that are still playing doesnt mean crap. It is such a small number, this game should have shut down a year ago if the Dev's income depended on it, which im sure it doesnt.



Merkle wrote:

This is insainaty at its finest.  We now have low pop, with players who are willing to bend over backwards to get the game going again.

But, now is not the time to fix things?  We, Everyone, have already proven that we are not going anywhere.  Were staying here for the long haul.  So why are we now all of a sudden not wanting to take a bit, rather a small amount of time, to get the problem fixed rather then the band aid.

The patient is already on life support.  Throwing a band aid on him now will only prolong its death, I would rather be the smart doctor and fix the hemorrhage rather then killing the respected game.

We have a great Idea here, that both sides agree on.  Its several pages up, Lobo, and Burials Idea works, and fixes the problem.  It increase beta traffic and keeps Alpha and Gamma users sound.

1,139

Re: Spark Teleports

Gunner wrote:

It is such a small number, this game should have shut down a year ago if the Dev's income depended on it, which im sure it doesnt.

It kinda does actually, but luckily living in cheap Hungaryland has its perks.

1,140

Re: Spark Teleports

ugh now I feel like an *** saying that

sorry

DEV Zoom wrote:
Gunner wrote:

It is such a small number, this game should have shut down a year ago if the Dev's income depended on it, which im sure it doesnt.

It kinda does actually, but luckily living in cheap Hungaryland has its perks.

1,141

Re: Spark Teleports

No offense taken smile

Re: Spark Teleports

For just a Dollar a Day you to can feed a DEV

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

1,143 (edited by Merkle 2013-11-28 11:53:49)

Re: Spark Teleports

It does not fix the problem over A or B, as simply put.  By strategically placing sparks in the correct location, most of what is happening now can still be accomplished with very little more effort.

The ease of the solution should not be in effect here, we have, again, several pages saying now big of a issue this is, yet we do not wish to make a system that will effectively solve the issue. 

The system that is being suggested would work, if the game world was twice the size.  This isn't currently the case, or do I think the DEV's wish it to become the case in the near future.

When there is no difference OVER whether choosing A or B that isn't a choice. 

Were already going to have 1 choice for gamma.  Of which we can already blood spark there with ease.
Next will be the several beta's that are being actively PVP'ed.  Take your pick, we can choice any of them we wish.  As they are so close together, twin groupings, that it doesn't matter, we can be there in several minutes.

Honestly this is starting to look less like a band-aid and more of a change for the sake of change deal. 

If you really want to put the hammer down on this, you really need to add everything together, forget about the "noob".  Reduce the total number of sparks that you can use, increase the cost, make a cool down of at least 7 hours.  (It should be 9 hours less then 24 so that people can use the spark, and when they come back from work the next day they can use it again.)

Now, with that being said, expect a MASSIVE slowdown on game play, and you will see more of the "old" ways coming back  to the game.  This would be a both good and bad thing, it all comes down to how you want US to play the game.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

1,144

Re: Spark Teleports

Also, pertaining to gamma's.

They are less useful more so now then ever before.  Sure we need colx, but for what bot?  Only for scarab Mk2's, and only for more gamma structures.  If you really want to live anywhere, the logical place to be now, is to mine on a alpha 2 and get epi from a beta 2.  Place a ninja OP for Colx as you need very little of it, for any strategical importance.

I hate to say it, with the last epi patch, we have next to no incentive to live, or even work for gamma's anymore.
Why invest billions, when you can mine in complete safety on alpha 2's?

That is another topic for another day.  But do not think that does not play massively into sparks and how we choose our spark targets.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

1,145

Re: Spark Teleports

they still have the best building facilities by a long way as well as relativelly risk free access to Noralgis and every other mineral but epriton. Beacon pits and artifact hunting are an addition to that.

They are still overpowered.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Spark Teleports

Merkle wrote:

It does not fix the problem over A or B, as simply put.  By strategically placing sparks in the correct location, most of what is happening now can still be accomplished with very little more effort.

.




Its going to be a pain in the *** for joe robot guy in gamma who you want to augment your force with.

For pvpers, its no prob.

But!    People have to think about it now and decide.  (scary huh?)

1,147

Re: Spark Teleports

In the old days if you wanted to go somewhere you walked there, which typically resulted in 5-6 hours of roaming empty islands and still needing 30-40 minutes to get back home. SpT and interzones were brought in to combat precisely that time investment prerequisite for meaningful game participation. But as with everything that get's implemented, it was implemented haphazardly with zero consideration for what evidently more intelligent people were saying.

Issue 1: Force projection

Instantly jumping between 10/5/? locations for a laughable price with no cooldown? There's batshit ***, then there's this. Increase the world size, then turn it into a fish bowl with the few fish swimming in circles while the cat looks on.

Issue 2: No consequence

Did I mention no cooldown? As in, it's irrelevant if there's a fleet outside your station, spark away for an hour and mine a bit until they get bored & leave, then you can spark back and carry on w/e you were doing?

Solution: Kill it with fire

Whoever came up with this brilliant idea and didn't consider what long-term effect it would have is an evident imbecile and has no business making decisions. Unfortunately, since the afore-mentioned unidentified imbecile will no doubt keep making decisions, the only applicable solution is to tick on a cooldown on spark-jumping (8-12 hours should be sufficient, alternatively make it 24 and tie it to a new extension that ultimately reduces it to 14 hours).

Without that, the only thing you're doing is marginally increasing the fish bowl so the poor little fish have to swim a little bit longer. There is still no consequence for sparking to the wrong place at the wrong time.

TL;DR

Told you so, a long long time ago in an IRC far far away.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Spark Teleports

Merkle wrote:

It does not fix the problem over A or B, as simply put.  By strategically placing sparks in the correct location, most of what is happening now can still be accomplished with very little more effort.

The ease of the solution should not be in effect here, we have, again, several pages saying now big of a issue this is, yet we do not wish to make a system that will effectively solve the issue. 

The system that is being suggested would work, if the game world was twice the size.  This isn't currently the case, or do I think the DEV's wish it to become the case in the near future.

When there is no difference OVER whether choosing A or B that isn't a choice. 

Were already going to have 1 choice for gamma.  Of which we can already blood spark there with ease.
Next will be the several beta's that are being actively PVP'ed.  Take your pick, we can choice any of them we wish.  As they are so close together, twin groupings, that it doesn't matter, we can be there in several minutes.

Honestly this is starting to look less like a band-aid and more of a change for the sake of change deal. 

If you really want to put the hammer down on this, you really need to add everything together, forget about the "noob".  Reduce the total number of sparks that you can use, increase the cost, make a cool down of at least 7 hours.  (It should be 9 hours less then 24 so that people can use the spark, and when they come back from work the next day they can use it again.)

Now, with that being said, expect a MASSIVE slowdown on game play, and you will see more of the "old" ways coming back  to the game.  This would be a both good and bad thing, it all comes down to how you want US to play the game.


What do u suggjest then? 1 alpha 1 beta 1gamma? 
No one is argueing but ur side abouth it if u whant zoom to implement that il suport u on that one.


If u just whant the current system to be like it is then hell no.... way to easy

1,149 (edited by Merkle 2013-11-28 19:58:00)

Re: Spark Teleports

Norrdec, Gets it.

Estamel Please read my posts and don't just assume I am anti 62nd or anti "whoever is red at the time".
(Its that or we are just having a language barrier, if this is the case then I humbly apologize.)

Its going to be has hard as Joe Robot ***, as for us to say, go here, set spark, have bot.  Spark in.

This does NOTHING to change anything.

Kill it with fire.  Basically the only solution.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Spark Teleports

Merkle wrote:

Norrdec, Gets it.

Estamel Please read my posts and don't just assume I am anti 62nd or anti "whoever is red at the time".
(Its that or we are just having a language barrier, if this is the case then I humbly apologize.)

Its going to be has hard as Joe Robot ***, as for us to say, go here, set spark, have bot.  Spark in.

This does NOTHING to change anything.

Kill it with fire.  Basically the only solution.



I know what u said...   this change can atleast give ppl an idea of were ur sparks are so it changes beeing able to have stuff at evry single outposts and a spark aswell to deffend evry single one.

If u whant SpT removed i think the cool down is way better chosie but sure go ahed and make a new thred i will suport the removal of a broken game mechanic that was stolen from EVE.   Even there there is a hughe restriction on usage