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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Brutux wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Well, Mongolia Jones' slots idea, but to specify and expand a bit:

* Your 10 target slots become 10 "slot credits"
* Different terminals/outposts cost different slot credits:
   - 1 slot: Alpha 1 terminals and outposts
   - 2 slot: Alpha 2 and Beta main terminals
   - 3 slot: Beta outposts and Gamma terminals
* Teleport fee would depend on range to the target, could be in the range of 10,000-5,000,000 NIC on an exponential curve

And I have to talk to the guys about this, can't tell any dates until that.

Terrible idea. You are trying to fix PvP and you are punishing industry and everyone else.
I have 7 sparks. They are:

Hersh
Brightstone
Kara
Dana
3 stations on Imidero

My blood spark is to another Gamma.

My sparks on gamma are for industrial uses, mining, harvesting, etc.
This is a game of conflict. If you wish to stop Gamma expansion by a Corp it sgould be stopped by guns, not mechanics. This is a game of empire building, and there is a reward for those players who continue to play the game for the long haul. Your proposal shifts the focus to the casual player and hit and run PvP. The casual player doesn't need to play this game month after month.

These limits royally screw the indy player. And, once its implemented, you will see it do nothing to fix the root causes of why the game is stagnant. The Epi change was the first and best step in the right direction but it wont be apparent until stockpiles run low.

I guess 50 total pages of people stating "its a broken mechanic" has finally convinced the Devs its a"broken mechanic".
When it wasn't. A simple 5 minute cooldown, nothing more, would have sufficed and eliminated most of the arguements of it being OP.

I don't argue my position on this from a political standpoint, nor from a position of what I currently have or have access to. I think this is wrong and bad because you are suggesting a change that drastically affects a much larger area than what you think you are correcting. People forget what travel was like before sparks, and before Gamma, I mentioned in Gen Chat if I want to haul items from Hersh to Imi, its 45 minutes. I spend 45 minutes of my game time every time I want one Scarab of goods moved, and at least half that time is in an area where I can be killed, Isn't this enough of an opportunity for my enemies to kill me if they so choose? I guess not.

The limit of 10 sparks is perfect. A 5 minute cooldown would be enough. Blood sparking only to current set home base, This is all that would be needed to balance SpT. 

You guys want players to invest in this game. You will make it so the best way to play is casual encounters, That defeates the point of building bases, taking saps. Living in the game. Is this what you want?


I agree with Brutux, and I think the sparks are mostly fine the way they are with the exception of beta. There's no need to "fix" the sparks for the rest of the game, but only on beta, and a 10 minute undock timer would do that. I can see from a developer's point of view that any mechanic that limits anyone from being able to play as a bad thing, but IMHO it's the best solution. People will learn to spark to where they need to be on beta early for fights, and go make a sammich or rub one off or something.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Brutux wrote:

I will add, please look at the existing map and political control.

Is the current landspace because of SpT?

No. We took and captured what we did, mostly after the opposition stopped playing (sorry fellow STC and friends I don't mean to minimize how adept you are at taking and defending Gammas)

Can we maintain the current landscape because of SpT.

It definitely helps, for sure. Our alliance is the largest in game.

But the actual answer is no. If the opposition returned in the same or close numbers as our side, and with the same dedication, we would hold far less and things would be balanced.

Did the opposition post 1000's of messages when they were active in game and utilized SpT equally?

No. No need to explain this.

Do what you think is right for the game Zoom. But try and understand the reasons why things are the way they are currently. For the most part you do things right, but of course mistakes get made. My opinion is the proposed changes to SpT is a mistake and will not help the game in the long term.


What u seem to not understand is that once the opposing side grows stronger or larger than yours u whont lose half u will losse it all....  All gammas betas and forced back to alpha ilands.   This is the problem and ppl have been saying it KING OF THE HILL....


There needs to be a restriction to sparking.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

To be honest people only have sparks issue with beta terminals, I dont think people have any issue with alpha's or gamma's.

I personally pointed it up to lvl 9 so I can split sparks between pvp and non-pvp locations

but to be completely honest I used bloodspark for pvp locations.

2nd Top Killer 2012
02: 061 -- 353 -- 292 : Xadhoom

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

i love it how in vicinity chat burial and many others from stc and friends say sparks OP they should delete them they  should wipe gamma ect. u can even go back in this forum and see signs of this but the moment dev zoom actually jumps in and says ok lets change sparks everyone of them are singing a diff tune

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Brutux: I don't think it screws every indy player, only those who have access to many outposts/bases that are located on PvP islands. And if we talk about power projection, then we should also include industrial power projection. That is what the slot system would make harder, indeed.

Canthra: I don't think the largest discussion we ever had can be swept under the rug by saying "stfu, it's good as it is". I was waiting for some idea to pop up and I genuinely think the slot idea can turn the situation for the better, and it even leaves room for easy balancing.

Cooldowns: sadly I haven't seen an idea for this that...
1. has a cooldown that makes a difference
2. doesn't impose limits that denies deploying for more than a minute

Burial: I have seen the relation idea but I'm against it. I'll explain there.

181 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-16 19:02:19)

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

I've suggested it before, but maybe we should have 3 extra Beta islands that are not connected to Beta 1 and aren't easily Interzoned from Alpha2.

I even have pictures ready and all lol. We have gone over it so many times.

Balfizar wrote:

i love it how in vicinity chat burial and many others from stc and friends say sparks OP they should delete them they  should wipe gamma ect. u can even go back in this forum and see signs of this but the moment dev zoom actually jumps in and says ok lets change sparks everyone of them are singing a diff tune

No, I have always said that something should happen. All I don't agree with right now is the proposed system.

182 Reply by Lobo

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

SpT to any station 30 Sec to Re-aquire link to host. (30 sec no undock)
If you jump again in one hour you get a 5 Min link to host error. Meaning you cant undock for 5 mins. or you undock flagged and unable to redock.
If you spark again after that CD but before 1 hour you get a 15min CD to undock again you can undock but doing so will be flagged on a 15 min flag. This will remain the rest of your jumps after that as long as your with in your 1 hour since last spark.

But if you undock you better be ready to be there for 15 mins put side flagged or travel old school back the way you came.

This will not impede with the non-existent marketeers people keep refering to.

Just another Idea

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:

I've suggested it before, but maybe we should have 3 extra Beta islands that are not connected to Beta 1 and aren't easily Interzoned from Alpha2.

I even have pictures ready and all lol. We have gone over it so many times.

Maybe if it conected to a alpha then it wuld be balanced insted of having it only connect to beta 2

Or connect it to both betas and keep it away from alpha? big_smile

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Yes, that works. Basically anything that pulls it away from the Beta terminal. Although Alpha terminal is just as evil with current BloodSparking.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Merkle wrote:

I do not see any reason why a owner of a station should not be able to get there when they wish.  Gamma's should never have a penalty of getting there when you wish.  The risk is far to high, for the investment that is made.

This caught my eye. I couldn't be arsed to look for it, but I remember many posts in that threadnaught where people are asking that the game should require you to make strategic choices. That is exactly what the slot system would do. It's not a penalty, and it certainly does not prevent you from getting to your terminal by any other means. It's just about making a choice which ones are those that you want to reach easily.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

i know my idea is back a page.. but what about slotting the stations and leaving the sparks like they are?

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

DEV Zoom wrote:
Merkle wrote:

I do not see any reason why a owner of a station should not be able to get there when they wish.  Gamma's should never have a penalty of getting there when you wish.  The risk is far to high, for the investment that is made.

This caught my eye. I couldn't be arsed to look for it, but I remember many posts in that threadnaught where people are asking that the game should require you to make strategic choices. That is exactly what the slot system would do. It's not a penalty, and it certainly does not prevent you from getting to your terminal by any other means. It's just about making a choice which ones are those that you want to reach easily.

ding ding ding give the man a prize!!!

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

I really don't understand how this would benefit anyone, other then the ones that don't own anything so they can attack a terminal and hope they don't get defenders. Seems to be not in the best interest of pvp but rather the reverse.

2nd Top Killer 2012
02: 061 -- 353 -- 292 : Xadhoom

"Annihilator no fix for crashes when fighting burial/merkle/xadhoom ?"

189 Reply by Nessa

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

* Your 10 target slots become 10 "slot credits"
* Different terminals/outposts cost different slot credits:
   - 1 slot: Alpha 1 terminals and outposts
   - 2 slot: Alpha 2 and Beta main terminals
   - 3 slot: Beta outposts and Gamma terminals

This changes nothing in PvP, it does change how PvE or Industrial toons operate as Brutix describes. I'm an industrial toon, my sparks are as follows: 2 gamma, 3 alpha (Hersh, Tellesis, Attalica), 0 beta. I'ld rather not be forced to invest months of EP into Spt 10 just to keep all but Attalica. I will need to change one of the Gammas to a Beta due to the changes in Epi once my Epi stocks are depleted. The change would also not affect the issue of those being able to instantly spark around islands, going from location A, B, C, D, E, F... in a matter of seconds until they find what they want. Some have done this numberous times with the open Beta terminals. Scouting where activity is at and not at by deploying a detector per beta island/terminal.

* Teleport fee would depend on range to the target, could be in the range of 10,000-5,000,000 NIC on an exponential curve

NIC sink, won't change a damn thing. Folks with NIC will still teleport and folks with out (ie rookies) won't. Most folks on Gamma/Beta have the 5m NIC to teleport all day long with no impact on there finances. People who have industrial and PvP toons will still keep making NIC with the industrial while spending that NIC on the PvP toon.

What I'm trying to achieve is to keep the positive aspect of spark teleports (less walking) without it being overpowered in PvP (harder power projection).

If sparks were meant to save time traveling (less walking) then the simple solution would be to put a timer/NIC cost on spark usage equal to a base time it could take to travel that distance using conventional methods (ie using internal island teleports).
It takes me about 20min waiting for teleports to charge and session timers to go from Hershfield to Imidero, then from there I've to walk from the teleport to the terminal. That walk varies but for the sake of this post won't be calculated. Say there was a 10min timer (1/2 the time to walk the distance) on sparking back to Imidero again and a NIC fee to spark with that timer active, we would see less abuse of SpT.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Xadhoom wrote:

I really don't understand how this would benefit anyone, other then the ones that don't own anything so they can attack a terminal and hope they don't get defenders. Seems to be not in the best interest of pvp but rather the reverse.


Morre like its geting very obv your group of ppl have way ot much and sparks made it relly relly easy for u to control the entire game whit out much effort

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Are you going to start server wipe campaign when you realise it doesn't really help you on Beta?

192 Reply by Xadhoom (edited by Xadhoom 2013-11-16 19:52:58)

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

I can careless about public beta terminals. so remove sparks in them all together and only give spark teleport locatons on beta islands only to terminal owners.

also

change bloodsparking to only be set to alpha terminals.

2nd Top Killer 2012
02: 061 -- 353 -- 292 : Xadhoom

"Annihilator no fix for crashes when fighting burial/merkle/xadhoom ?"
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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Xadhoom wrote:

I really don't understand how this would benefit anyone, other then the ones that don't own anything so they can attack a terminal and hope they don't get defenders. Seems to be not in the best interest of pvp but rather the reverse.

Its not supposed to benefit, its supposed to make it so people strategically think and place assets/sparks in stations accordingly, not just Bam spark here, bam spark there, bam, spark everywhere.

this spark teleport change can increase roaming PvP on combination with the Epriton change, and also allows for more legitimate means of travel like interzones. i support mongolia's Idea and am glad that zoom finally has plans to have spark teles changed.

Good job Devs, one step foward for the community, smile

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:

Are you going to start server wipe campaign when you realise it doesn't really help you on Beta?


Yes.  I allredy made the singns and posters smile

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

I would even make the transition softer by only doing the slot idea first, see how that goes, and consider doing the range fee after.

196 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-16 19:43:09)

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Xadhoom wrote:

I really don't understand how this would benefit anyone, other then the ones that don't own anything so they can attack a terminal and hope they don't get defenders. Seems to be not in the best interest of pvp but rather the reverse.

Its not supposed to benefit, its supposed to make it so people strategically think and place assets/sparks in stations accordingly, not just Bam spark here, bam spark there, bam, spark everywhere.

this spark teleport change can increase roaming PvP on combination with the Epriton change, and also allows for more legitimate means of travel like interzones. i support mongolia's Idea and am glad that zoom finally has plans to have spark teles changed.

Good job Devs, one step foward for the community, smile

Only problem is how long it actually takes to roam from one faction beta to another. tongue

20 minutes to reach from one faction to another. You are not roaming Beta, you are roaming Alpha.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:
BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Xadhoom wrote:

I really don't understand how this would benefit anyone, other then the ones that don't own anything so they can attack a terminal and hope they don't get defenders. Seems to be not in the best interest of pvp but rather the reverse.

Its not supposed to benefit, its supposed to make it so people strategically think and place assets/sparks in stations accordingly, not just Bam spark here, bam spark there, bam, spark everywhere.

this spark teleport change can increase roaming PvP on combination with the Epriton change, and also allows for more legitimate means of travel like interzones. i support mongolia's Idea and am glad that zoom finally has plans to have spark teles changed.

Good job Devs, one step foward for the community, smile

Only problem is how long it actually takes to roam from one faction beta to another. tongue

set your spark teleports certain way with the system Zoom and mongolia are currently on about and it will work for you smile

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:
BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Xadhoom wrote:

I really don't understand how this would benefit anyone, other then the ones that don't own anything so they can attack a terminal and hope they don't get defenders. Seems to be not in the best interest of pvp but rather the reverse.

Its not supposed to benefit, its supposed to make it so people strategically think and place assets/sparks in stations accordingly, not just Bam spark here, bam spark there, bam, spark everywhere.

this spark teleport change can increase roaming PvP on combination with the Epriton change, and also allows for more legitimate means of travel like interzones. i support mongolia's Idea and am glad that zoom finally has plans to have spark teles changed.

Good job Devs, one step foward for the community, smile

Only problem is how long it actually takes to roam from one faction beta to another. tongue


Yes its not suposed to be instant...... or easy....    u know u can send out a detector to check activity?? smile)
This way u can sacrifice 1 mans time insted of 20 if that is the problem that is.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:
BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Xadhoom wrote:

I really don't understand how this would benefit anyone, other then the ones that don't own anything so they can attack a terminal and hope they don't get defenders. Seems to be not in the best interest of pvp but rather the reverse.

Its not supposed to benefit, its supposed to make it so people strategically think and place assets/sparks in stations accordingly, not just Bam spark here, bam spark there, bam, spark everywhere.

this spark teleport change can increase roaming PvP on combination with the Epriton change, and also allows for more legitimate means of travel like interzones. i support mongolia's Idea and am glad that zoom finally has plans to have spark teles changed.

Good job Devs, one step foward for the community, smile

Only problem is how long it actually takes to roam from one faction beta to another. tongue

20 minutes to reach from one faction to another. You are not roaming Beta, you are roaming Alpha.

if u want instant action i hear theres something call fps and match making games out on the market go give them a try

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

U can also abuse the 50k teleports.  that way u can jump directly out to beta! or even interzones