Topic: The Noob Game

Over the past couple days it dawned on me that a ton of things that are imbalanced with the game relate directly to the noob game.  Maybe the devs just didnt want to make it any harder for people to start out because of the very complex nature of this game, or they just didnt have enough data to properly balance things.  Still, something needs to be done and SOON.


Arkhes

They are way too fast and way too free right now.  They are insanely useful in PvP, and can outrun most bots even with weapons equipped.  These are supposed to be used by newbies to get started or when you've hit rock bottom and need to get on your feet again.

Suggestions:

- Reduce their top speed.  Noob spawns move at snails pace anyway, so these need to only be fast enough to run away from those.
- Remove PvP capabilities.  Either they cant lock onto other players or they cant even set foot on beta.  PvP is no place for a free bot. 
- Only allow Syn-tec equipment.
- Limited supply.  Only 1 arkhe per 12 hours with a timer before it gets 'delivered' to your storage when you die.  Solves the 'arkhe swarm' after your group gets wiped out.


Assignments

The level 1 assignments are way too profitable right now, as well as giving higher relation than higher level assignments at times.  They are super easy to do and give a decent amount of special ammo as a reward.  Players can run these indefinitely with no risk.

Level 2 assignments from the outposts are too out of the way for the reward they give.  People just continue to do level 1 until they get to level 3 where the assignments come back to the outpost.

Suggestions:

- Bring back assignments disappearing if your relation gets too high.  ~1.00 above the level of the assignment.
- Decrease rewards in conjunction with decreasing relation gains.
- Less ammo for lower missions, but still good NIC.
- Increase higher level rewards, especially ammo.
- Allow assignments to be accepted or completed at any outpost/terminal on that faction's island.


NPCs / Kernals

Low level kernals are currently way over priced for their value.  I'm not going to say that high levels are under priced because I think its too easy to get NIC right now, so that needs to be lessened.   The low level spawns can be killed in 2/3 salvos by an assault, with nearly 0 risk of dying unless you crash or are an idiot.  Higher level spawns are many times more dangerous, and can only be done in groups some of the time, but they only give kernals that sell for 1.5x on the market.

Suggestions:

- Remove all kernal buy orders from the market and let the players determine their worth.
- Remove only low level bot kernals (rank 1-3) to keep part of the NIC faucet in game, but let the low levels drop in value to push people away from noob spawns.
- Insta-ban anyone with more than 60k EP that kills a rank 1 spawn or below.

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

Re: The Noob Game

insta ban part is a bit too harsh, dont you think?arkes are op given the numbers and cenario but id say nerf them in due time, let corps have a steady number of good bots first and arkes will go away

Re: The Noob Game

Arkhes will never disappear as long as they are the perfect scout and can kill things for free.

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

Re: The Noob Game

sorry for multiple post,cell only lets me type 200 letters.I bolive once we all start moving to mecs the game will change  alot. Squads of emc bots non mecs will become a joke,ecm mecs are slow so....

Re: The Noob Game

so things like inkart squads will be a joke, this goes to all of you who say more pvp and yet roam all day un pus*y a$$ fast bots"luke ichigo,reefpirare ect...list goes on..." so lets wait bit more

Re: The Noob Game

on arkhes nerf and see how things evolve, on market side id say eliminate infinite buy orders, might boost up $$$ or fuk it up,dunno

7 (edited by Vorgrim Scout 2010-12-17 20:45:07)

Re: The Noob Game

Definitely like to see an arkhe speed nerf. There is no reason for 100kph+ arkhes.

Cutting off assignments at +1 of their standing level is one way get people moving forward. However, I would like to see it done slightly differently. Once that +1 rep is reached, the reward starts degrading at each +0.01 rep by 10% until eventually giving nothing, much like how the reputation rewards do. This way the is no way to get "stuck"

The kernal thing is tricky because true noobs don't have an easy time of it. My advise is to make the price of kernals scale much more. Make moving on to stronger mobs a sound choice financially. Right now, I can make far more money farming r1s than r5s, even with selling the occasional t4 loot, which is just crazy.

Its all relative remember. Having beta farming be extremely profitable is the best change that can come, because its pretty quiet out there. If Alpha stay as profitable as it is, you run the risk of Beta forever being a glorified arena, which is the situation currently.

Re: The Noob Game

10 arkhes can be quite scary even against a rep tanked mech even....

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

Re: The Noob Game

Neoxx wrote:

10 arkhes can be quite scary even against a rep tanked mech even....

Im pretty sure it should be scarey if 10 players attack 1 no matter what bot they choose to use.....

However, I believe some incentive NOT to use Arkhes in PvP should be implemented. If it is nerfing the Arkhes, or some other means I am all for it.


However, I am going to disagree on another issue you bring up regarding the Kernals. Quite Simply, the reason low lvl Kernals are worth so much in relation to higher is because so many more ppl need them to make the gear that is relevant to what people are using RIGHT NOW. Its just a demand issue. As people get higher in production skills and robot skills, demand for low lvl kernals will diminish and demand for high lvl kernals will increase. As the demand rises, so will the prices.

Re: The Noob Game

The Arkhe will face some changes... not as drastic as some of the suggested, but enough to reduce their PvP value.

Missions disappearing is a bad idea. A dimishing return formula applied to the reward doesn't sound bad. I want the standing falloff to start after 1.0 already, and in my opinion the NEGATIVE standing should increase (similar to the CT damage. the higher your % on the CT is, the more will it wear down per cycle)

i dont like that the lvl1 transport missions all having another alpha terminal as destination. They should send you either around the three terminals (1 line, not 4!), and others should send you to the outposts where you get lvl2 missions (there are almost no terminal->outpost transports, right?)

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Re: The Noob Game

Cons wrote:

However, I am going to disagree on another issue you bring up regarding the Kernals. Quite Simply, the reason low lvl Kernals are worth so much in relation to higher is because so many more ppl need them to make the gear that is relevant to what people are using RIGHT NOW. Its just a demand issue. As people get higher in production skills and robot skills, demand for low lvl kernals will diminish and demand for high lvl kernals will increase. As the demand rises, so will the prices.

Incorrect. The reason low lvl kernels are worth so much more in relation to higher is because of the price set by the NPC buy orders. Farming low level kernels will never stop being the fastest way to make NIC because there will always be NPC buy orders for them. Player buy orders are usually lower than the NPC buy order. Even if a player really wants kernels and is willing to pay a premium price, they will not be able to give away their NIC forever. NPC's do not have that problem.

I'm quite confident that there are players right now with hundreds of millions of NIC, simply because they have been farming kernels and making 4-5 million NIC per hour, since launch. This needs to be fixed now, or the economy will be destroyed before we are 6 months along.

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Re: The Noob Game

lvl 2 are A outpost to  A outpost/A-term
lvl 3s are A-term to A outpost/B-term
lvl 4 are B-term to B Outpost
lvl 5 are B-outpost to B-outpost
lvl 6 ????

Re: The Noob Game

Somehow I feel we've been here before...


Neoxx wrote:

I was going to respond to each point but I think there is a basic issue here that is harder to cure.

Reducing the effectiveness of the starter bot blocks new players from participating in PVP.

That's not a solution, I know, but any changes to the starter bot needs to continue to allow new players to participate or you may as well just stop accepting new subscriptions.

I'm absolutely against the timed and/or cost idea. It was brought up before and its just too intrusive for the game to make you wait before you can play again and its totally feasible for a player to not have enough NIC to afford another starter bot, making the entire game unplayable.

You could limit how many skill levels can be used by the starter bot, for instance even if you have Nav 10 it will only go faster up to Nav 3. While you could do this, I can see this being an issue later on in the game when players with really advanced skills are able to defeat heavy mechs using castels, and the calls for capping that start. Its a very very slippery slope. This goes for limiting the armamnets too; since again a castel with tier 10 weapons and a driver with 400k EP is going to mop up bots.

Re: The Noob Game

Noobs will have light bots to pvp in, and 400k is cheap and even less so if you insure it for a fight you think you'll die in. Faction lights are noob pvp, not arkhes

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

Re: The Noob Game

I really do understand there is currently an imbalance in cost vs performance for the Arkhe, I get it.

And I really wish that I could think of a solution instead of just saying this or that won't work, but I think only time can fix this.

Really the game is only 1 month old and there is already a seperate noob classification?

For those players that came all the way through beta testing and signed up for EA you've lost sight of what being new to the game means.

I'm not calling for the game to coddle new players, but you also can't ask to impose changes that ruin the starting experience just because you are already past it.

This game is all about PVP and that is what is going to attract people to it, its freak'n bot on bot action after all. Maybe your trying to set an entrance exam, if noobs can't struggle through a crappy start then they fail and you don't want them here anyway. Personally I would like to see more players, even bad players make good targets, and with more players we'll get more content.

Re: The Noob Game

Arkhes need to be free. that can never change, what needs to change is them being so fast and coming with weapons and ammo on beta.

Reduce base speed by 30% and if your home terminal is on beta island your arkhe spawns naked.

Re: The Noob Game

Awesome Neoxx! The whole post rocks, Any of this would solve a whole bunch of problems including the two or three that are argued about most.

Who the $#@% is stEvE?

18 (edited by franko 2010-12-18 09:16:39)

Re: The Noob Game

I agree and dont agree in same time, remember that some people had 40k starting EP, for them it was too easy... like i said in many posts it wasnt balanced. So nerfing early game for new players, because some people had early access is not good way.
Now they have millions, and are farming low lvl mobs for weeks.
...But mobs in this game are balanced in strange way too. First lvl mobs are easy and fast to kill, give good money vs risk.
After this there are huge gap when you think about npc,some lvl 2 mobs are in pack of 4-5 have higher dmg, and uber skills like demobilize, ECM or energy drain, and give moderate/low money for risk/time... If you dont have mech or months in EP forget to farm them... because lvl1 will give you more money and you risk nothing.
Its looks like we need T2-T4 bots, that can kill them, and lvl2-4 npc should drop kernels to produce them.
Or lvl 2 and 3 mobs should be rebalanced money vs time/risk.
Agree about arkhes you shouldt fight in pvp in free bot, for me arkhes should be blocked from beta islands, no free patroling and free pvp.