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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Tux wrote:

This change does not go far enough to fix problems and promote new players to join the game as I, YOU & others have stated.

So... new players going into beta/low-sec on day 1 is gonna be the new trend eh? what newbie would want to be on beta mining on day 1 anyway? I don't see how not being able to mine epri in a sandcastle would be anti newbie when newbies won't even be doing that their first few days anyways and will probably be learning the ropes on alpha let alone going out mining on beta with no clue of what is going on

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

252 Reply by Tux

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Tux wrote:

This change does not go far enough to fix problems and promote new players to join the game as I, YOU & others have stated.

So... new players going into beta/low-sec on day 1 is gonna be the new trend eh? what newbie would want to be on beta mining on day 1 anyway? I don't see how not being able to mine epri in a sandcastle would be anti newbie when newbies won't even be doing that their first few days anyways and will probably be learning the ropes on alpha let alone going out mining on beta with no clue of what is going on

lol apperently after almost a year in the game your still a n00b

Re read & try to understand what my post says .....

Here ill help you:

So... new players going into beta/low-sec on day 1 is gonna be the new trend eh? what newbie would want to be on beta mining on day 1 anyway?

simple answer very few ... so what does the change do to help them ? .... nothing


I don't see how not being able to mine epri in a sandcastle  would be anti newbie when newbies won't even be doing that their first few days anyways and will probably be learning the ropes on alpha let alone going out mining on beta with no clue of what is going on

?!?!?! really did you just comment just so you could be in this thread>?

This change IS NOT helping New players . .. It falls very short from doing so .. and more needs to be done to help new players.

honestly Beast i have seen better Trolls from you .. whats going on ? you back in school already or something ???

Please re read and re comment

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

253 Reply by Ville

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Beasts he's slowly losing control...  This is delightful to watch.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Indeed lol

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Here's a suggestion to Beastmode and Ville.

1) Listen. Place your mental focus on what people are saying - not what you are feeling.
2) Don't say anything.

You can carry this exercise to other threads aswell.

256 Reply by Hunter (edited by Hunter 2013-09-07 10:31:49)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Burial wrote:

Here's a suggestion to Beastmode and Ville.

1) Listen. Place your mental focus on what people are saying - not what you are feeling.
2) Don't say anything.

You can carry this exercise to other threads aswell.

+1

BTW we have to say thanks to DeV Zoom that he warned us about such global changes.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Certainly won't motivate me (and other PvE centered players) to remain in the game.

The goal should be to retain players, not make it more difficult for the industrial types to exist.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

TBH I also fail to see why new players are a topic here. This change is not supposed to cater for them, as it has nothing to do with them.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

DEV Zoom wrote:

TBH I also fail to see why new players are a topic here. This change is not supposed to cater for them, as it has nothing to do with them.

Quoting for the magnitude of crazyness,

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

DEV Zoom wrote:

TBH I also fail to see why new players are a topic here. This change is not supposed to cater for them, as it has nothing to do with them.


Yes, its all about nerfing gamma and those who macro there.

RIP PERPETUUM
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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

zoom just points out the following.

beta and gamma are not ment to be for fresh noobs. yes if you join a etablished corp you can do there stuff. but its no contenet ment for new players. just lile in steve no fresh pilot in a t1 cruiser has content in 0.0 space.

epriton was aslways ment to be the high end ore and so is not ment for new players. they can try, but their success rate in this will be not the highest.

compare a new player with a assault going against a T5 npc mech spawn. thats about the same as saying a new player should be able to go out and mine epriton ON ITS OWN!

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

I'd also like to say that I understand why many of you wish to think every new feature or change we do would bring in new players (trust me, I'm right there with you). However, the harsh reality is that no single feature we do will bring in new players, at least not numbers that would make a difference. New players are brought in with marketing and media visibility (e.g. Steam).

What we CAN do with features and changes is to retain existing and new players.

If you really want to put this epriton change into a "what will this do to players"-box, then the closest would be to retain old players.

Our current efforts aimed to retain new players are the mission and tutorial changes, not this one.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Not sure I support this, especially with current spark mechanics. But perhaps it will be good for conflict beyond simple indy ganks. Control will be more important.

I definitely think you should have only announced immediately before effective date to reduce stockpiling. You did say "you made a decisions" so its not like you put up a thread for debate.

And why can't you tweak your system so that mineral spawns do not appear on or near NPC spawns? Is that really so impossible? One cannot tie to the other?

Sparking to other games

264 Reply by Lemon

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

You are forcing the New players to only have 1 choice to roam. Roam the same area where my T4 Rivler Mk 2's have to mine while being protected by my Mesmer Mk 2's.

You are sending them in to a room with a knife while jack there is waiting with his shotgun.  Another 10 are missing from that but who could remember all of them.

Now I am not here to say that this is or isnt a good thing, it defanitly adds to the PvP. However this does have a direct impact on new players.  Expensive Miners means Expensive defenders to match.

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265 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-07 20:09:51)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Lemon, you think that Gamma is a successor to Beta. That is not the case. They are completely different types of islands and I can see many vets not bother with Gammas at all in the future, simply because they are not for everyone.

If the successor hypothesis were to work, Betas should just be filled with smaller fields, weaker NPCs so-on so-on. With current mechanics, both island types cater to different player types, regardless of vet or newb status.


// typos -.-

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Yes it does effect new players . This change will impact greatly in the price of mechs and HM mechs and t3/t4 gear and also their loss if you mine on Beta, whilst old vets can be a able to afford this. When I mention new players I'm taking about new corps who would like to make it on their own and stay on the game for good, they have little chance when all the vets will need to 'lock down' beta for their mining OPS, and there are only 6 available.

Best solution would have been for epriton to spawn between gamma and beta and reduce base yields from 300 to 150.

RIP PERPETUUM

267 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2013-09-07 21:00:49)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Burial wrote:

Lemon, you think that Gamma is a successor to Beta. That is not the case.

I certainly don't agree there. All the changes from the Gamma frontier onwards, I see the intention was to make gamma the end game, its just was not finished.If what you say is true this is a complete change of direction because there is not enough money/Devs to complete the project on a decent time frame.


This change does not address the real issues with gamma, that it can be made much safer than Beta.

RIP PERPETUUM

268 Reply by Lemon

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Burial wrote:

Lemon, you think that Gamma is a successor to Beta. That is not the case. They are completely different types of islands and I can see many vets not bother with Gammas at all in the future, simply because they are not for everyone.

If the successor hypothesis were to work, Betas should just be filled with smaller fields, weaker NPCs so-on so-on. With current mechanics, both island types cater to different player types, regardless of vet or newb status.


// typos -.-

I did not say Gamma was a successor I simply stated that new players only have 1 option for PvP BETA. Which is exactly where you are about to stick all your top indy churning corps and their equal in combat protection.

See its not when a new player finds a target and dies at his first taste of PvP. It is when they try and jump in to the island and are instantly shut down and denied at the gates for entire days while the islands are stripped.

Since you need Epi *soon only from beta* naturally developing to access Gamma requires first beta access.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

269 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-07 23:28:09)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Lemon, I connected your post here and what you said previously in another thread:

Lemon wrote:

...
We vets are supposed to be making our multi-tile siege bots focusing on taking out each other sand-castles while newer players are preparing to build their castles on beta and alpha.
...

All I was trying to say is that regardless of Epriton change, you will find vets on Beta islands since some don't want to bother or don't like Gammas. Gamma is not end-all-be-all. Beta fits for some, Gamma fits for others.

This is all speculating about the future, right now we have neither vets nor newbies running on Betas. Future Beta holders could very well be vet corporations that don't have any involvement on Gammas.

Don't remember devs confirming it either way, but it looks they are taking this stance in the light of this update. It's good that way too. Newbies have total safety on Alphas if they wish to build up(AIC is one of the brightest examples here) not to mention there should be some sort of balance between all the island types, so entities living on one could not grow to be superior to others(EVE 0.0 sec!).

Lemon wrote:

Since you need Epi *soon only from beta* naturally developing to access Gamma requires first beta access.

That's true(if you want to do it all yourself - other way is to buy buildings/epriton) and it's also part of the reasons Tux suggested removing Epriton from Gamma buildings.

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Why not make a new ore exclusive to beta that manufactures NPC seeded orders, linked to gamma. Like terrafroming charges, construction charges and all related modules and items even mobile teleports could be included.

RIP PERPETUUM

271 Reply by Tux

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

DEV Zoom wrote:

TBH I also fail to see why new players are a topic here. This change is not supposed to cater for them, as it has nothing to do with them.

Thx for clearing this up Zoom wink

I'll see you all in the Killing Fields lol

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

272 Reply by Homer J Simpson (edited by Homer J Simpson 2013-09-08 08:47:36)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Celebro wrote:

I just hope this decision is not final.

any bets on how long it will take them to change their minds again ? like .. titan ore ? tongue

273 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2013-09-08 12:31:21)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Tux wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

TBH I also fail to see why new players are a topic here. This change is not supposed to cater for them, as it has nothing to do with them.

Thx for clearing this up Zoom wink

We were talking about new player retention rates which is effected by this change. Eventually most players would like to move up in the game. So much spin.

@ Homer: It could take them as long as players complain it wasn't a good change, or when they fix gamma risks, which is the main issue here. When risks are more balanced, then there is no point in not having epriton there.

RIP PERPETUUM

274 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-09-08 13:20:26)

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

Homer J Simpson wrote:
Celebro wrote:

I just hope this decision is not final.

any bets on how long it will take them to change their minds again ? like .. titan ore ? tongue

Never hopefully? I'm very happy to go and live on Betas, I just need to find more like-minded players and changes like that make it easier. Can't think all the vets are that happy with beacons and Gamma PVE.

275 Reply by Lemon

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Re: Epriton to be removed from gamma islands

@Burial

The Vets will always be on Beta/Alpha/Gamma but when you take the Epi and limit its access down to 6 islands. You then have noobs all the way up to the current power-houses interested. The question is how will this effect the average player or the new player? When a Power-house does operations it is quite different then say joe-smoe mining op or ninja op. 

You look at 6 islands for epi and I only see 3. Every island with a neutral outpost is not a option due to the ease a hostile can aggress from there. If we have 2 Power-blocks or even 3 that leaves the 3 other islands available.

Assuming I didnt have the luxury of having my Gamma structures I can tell you that eHarm would take and lock down 1 single Beta 2 Island to use for gathering. The time we spent not mining would be spent reminding others why this is our island and then sparking around the the Beta 1's for freebies.

AIC was formed by the players who left ToG to STAY on alpha and not PvP. They initially had no intentions of PvPing. I do not know of a single corp that has excelled in PvP that formed or grew on alpha before going to beta.

DISCLAIMER: I do not know indy nor do I try and say anything that has to do with balance. So Epi will bring fights however I do not think having your highest experienced and end game players being directed to the same location as your fresh out the station players.

Players want to PvP weather it is lvl 1, 10 or 100 most games just have brackets or zones for the different levels.  I dont play that other game but I am sure it doesn't just force its new players to walk in to the same room as their oldest to pvp. I have seen many quit after facing bots they deemed unbeatable that simply exploited their lack of game knowledge.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle