Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:

I find it highly amusing that when 62nd/CIR/Chaos/PHM were winning fights on Dom they didn't say one word about any of this,  the sparks system didn't seem to be broken them did it? But now, all of a sudden, there back-up is no where to be seen, and its a now major problem.

Actually some of us did bring up how sparks with no timers was a bad idea back when the dev blog came out.
But i personally no longer care enough to go find my Posts about it.

i will however say this, the way the Current spark system works (just to be clear i like spark Telleporting always have, i just have never liked no timer) seems to conflict with the TP network redesign.
The reason why so many people way back when asked for a redesign was the old layout made the world unworkable small. I dont think the way the current network & HWYs are layout is a good design I still think is was a move in the right direction. (starter islands should have kept the old TP "triangle")

The Aim of many people that supported a TP redesign was to spread out the world a bit to make power Projection Harder for Alliances.
Unlimited spark TPing Brakes this line of thinking. I could state why but a number of people have already brought up the Cons.

This is how i would have preferred the whole Spark System to be designed:

Re-spawn Spark (the place where you respawn after death): could only set Your home station once every 24hours

Spark Telleporting:
30-60Min for any Alpha 1 island
6-8Hours for any Alpha 2 island
20-24 Hours for Beta / Gamma

This would highlight the importance of choosing when to TP to sparks on PVP islands yet leave alpha with shorter timers for trade & other things. Sure PVPers can still use Alpha but it makes non stop TPing around the whole game a bit harder & rewards smart thinkers.

The way this System currently works might be ok with a Very small number of players but it will scale very badly if that number ever increases.

77 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-08-06 16:15:52)

Re: Spark Teleports

Homer J Simpson wrote:

Spark Telleporting:
30-60Min for any Alpha 1 island
6-8Hours for any Alpha 2 island
20-24 Hours for Beta / Gamma

^^ This is absolutely insane.  You want to limit the play time that people have in a game that they are paying to play?  24 hours for a gamma spark?  STC has leveled the defenses of an entire gamma island in less that 24 hours,  and you want to make it so players cant spark in and defend there own gamma for a full day because they sparked there once last night, and now have to wait another 12 hours to go defend it? 
What happens to the poor soul who sparks into a station with no assets?  They get to walk with an arkhe for 2 hours to back to a station that sells teles?

78 (edited by Homer J Simpson 2013-08-06 16:39:19)

Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:
Homer J Simpson wrote:

Spark Telleporting:
30-60Min for any Alpha 1 island
6-8Hours for any Alpha 2 island
20-24 Hours for Beta / Gamma

^^ This is absolutely insane.  You want to limit the play time that people have in a game that they are paying to play?  24 hours for a gamma spark?  STC has leveled the defenses of an entire gamma island in less that 24 hours,  and you want to make it so players cant spark in and defend there own gamma for a full day because they sparked there once last night, and now have to wait another 12 hours to go defend it? 
What happens to the poor soul who sparks into a station with no assets?  They get to walk with an arkhe for 2 hours to back to a station that sells teles?

Dude the times i gave are for the sake of argument but im sorry ill say that next time so you dont get upset.
Perhaps add a home recall option or maybe just maybe ..... move your respawn back to your Gamma base???


Have you never played?? if not then i can understand your knee jerk reaction of " OMG NO NO f*** NO WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN" post.

Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:
Homer J Simpson wrote:

Spark Telleporting:
30-60Min for any Alpha 1 island
6-8Hours for any Alpha 2 island
20-24 Hours for Beta / Gamma

^^ This is absolutely insane.  You want to limit the play time that people have in a game that they are paying to play?  24 hours for a gamma spark?  STC has leveled the defenses of an entire gamma island in less that 24 hours,  and you want to make it so players cant spark in and defend there own gamma for a full day because they sparked there once last night, and now have to wait another 12 hours to go defend it? 
What happens to the poor soul who sparks into a station with no assets?  They get to walk with an arkhe for 2 hours to back to a station that sells teles?

Dude!  We *** did that for 18 *** monthes!!!!  You walked!!  You really have never seen 200+ people living on one island.  Now imagine them sparking to every beta terminal at a whim.  Seriously who's going to live there?  No one.  Which forces one play style.  Well two.  I don't even think the server will be able to handle it.

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80 (edited by Burial 2013-08-06 16:33:56)

Re: Spark Teleports

There is only 3 terminals in the whole beta islands that are not lockable of all the 18 terminals there is in total and there are 3 islands that are completely lockables, apart from teleporters obviously. Additionally to that, there are better ways to get to the island and gank people than to spark to beta terminal for all to see..

Now we get back to the point that spark teleportation isn't the mechanic holding players back from living on beta, very bad argument for nerf.. but keep trying.

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

Now we get back to the point that spark teleportation isn't the mechanic holding players back from living on beta, very bad argument for nerf.. but keep trying.

Just like to point out that In no place have I said (incase your refering to me tongue ) Spark TPing is holding back Beta islands tongue Those have WAY to many issues effecting them lol

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial aren't you the same person that wanted to pop 10 beacons at a time?

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83 (edited by Cassius 2013-08-06 17:15:08)

Re: Spark Teleports

Again using the EvE "standard" Beta irrelevance has its equivalent in Low Sec space, and for muchly the same reasons .... Better resources and sov mechanics in 0.0 or Gamma. Better security elsewhere. etc.

I do not understand why Epi is not made a Beta only resource. This would solve 90% of the empty Beta problem. (And I have endorsed this long before everyone stopped playing and STC assimulated empty Beta outposts)
The only argument against this I heard was the disdain for artificial chokepoints, games a sandbox, etc. Well the game already has tonnes of artificial chokepoints, no Epi on Alpha, MPC only on Gamma, etc.

I have never had enough sparks ... I currently have lvl 7, and even before STC owned every Gamma, Beta, and Alpha terminal... As long as the amount of personal sparks do NOT increase, and lets pretend eventually this game survives and population and playing area increase, Spark Tele becomes no advantage whatsoever.

Currently, SpT favours Beta Outpost Defense, as a Outpost owner can spark in reinforcements if attacked where the attacker without access to the terminal cannot. In all other aspects of the game all sides have equal access to use of SpT. So the only possible negative is the advantage of Outpost owners. But Beta station ownership battles were never meant to be easy to change, or something that a small gang could simply hit and run and take over in one shot. Saps and sap loot can be hit and run by a trial account in a light bot, this is awesome. A new player can do something. Beta owneship is indeed worth something, if only as a safe teleport point.

Edit: a bit rambling but trying to make points in a thread that without politics, is a pretty good topic.
My basic points are some of the problems raised in game are not caused by the introduction of SpT

Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:

Burial aren't you the same person that wanted to pop 10 beacons at a time?

I want the problems to be fixed the right way. With beacons the right way was to tweak syndicate store prices(raise beacon prices) and fix assignments. The 3 beacon limit is a good, fast band-aid, but once assignments are fixed, I hope they will revise it.

Re: Spark Teleports

2 words come to mind, "power projection" it's bad, maybe not now but it will be a problem with more players.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Spark Teleports

I agree Celebro, I think.

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87 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-08-06 19:07:33)

Re: Spark Teleports

Homer J Simpson wrote:

Stuff

I find it funny that the guy who never plays is telling us how it is.  please continue with you sharing your infinite wisdom smile 

Also, you should probably type what you mean, throwing out arbitrary numbers doesn't help anything.

Edit:  you know what is a good counter to power projection?  a fleet of enemies who stop you from projecting your power.  Population is the problem, not sparks, missions, etc etc.  Nerfing sparks wont bring more people in, it will drive them away cause they will get bored driving everywhere.  IF highways were made far better and connected to things people actually use, you might have a point.  Until then sparks are the only real way to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.

Anyone notice how, when the new players make post like "I like the game but this is how it can be made more fun"  and then we all point out that the guy has not played and doesn't understand the systems.  Well there is a common thread in all of them.  Every single person says driving anywhere blows, no one want to have to drive everywhere all the time.

P.S. Won't someone think of the children?

Re: Spark Teleports

Cassius wrote:

Currently, SpT favours Beta Outpost Defense, as a Outpost owner can spark in reinforcements if attacked where the attacker without access to the terminal cannot.

If this is the problem then I don't understand how a cooldown would help, since you would get the timer AFTER you've already teleported there and contributed to whatever PvP defense necessary.

The issue with transport assignments should be solved with the new system, that one doesn't require a spark teleport change.

Re: Spark Teleports

+1 Zoom. Finally someone gets it.

Re: Spark Teleports

DEV Zoom wrote:
Cassius wrote:

Currently, SpT favours Beta Outpost Defense, as a Outpost owner can spark in reinforcements if attacked where the attacker without access to the terminal cannot.

If this is the problem then I don't understand how a cooldown would help, since you would get the timer AFTER you've already teleported there and contributed to whatever PvP defense necessary.

The issue with transport assignments should be solved with the new system, that one doesn't require a spark teleport change.

Bingo.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Spark Teleports

and it realy took you 4 pages to figure that out... wink

Re: Spark Teleports

Still missing the point.  If you care to look past the 15 players actively playing this game, hit me up.  I'll be in DOTA.

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93 (edited by Homer J Simpson 2013-08-07 01:19:50)

Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:
Homer J Simpson wrote:

Stuff

I find it funny that the guy who never plays is telling us how it is.  please continue with you sharing your infinite wisdom smile

Hey this game changes so little you can take a 6-12 month break & come back to mostly the same sh*t smile Also i still actively follow whats going on in game still .. well kinda big_smile


but hey if you want to argue the person & not the idea go for it lol

You are right tho Spark TPing isnt the sole problem with power projection... have a proper enemy to push back against another faction influence solves alot of problems.

Martha Stuart wrote:

Every single person says driving anywhere blows, no one want to have to drive everywhere all the time.

P.S. Won't someone think of the children?

I agree it does blow & the current Tp network needs to be tweaked. I think the big issue is more with the Alpha <> Alpha connections. 
http://i39.tinypic.com/24q7348.png
http://i40.tinypic.com/21o3o7t.png
some ideas i threw together on MS paint lol

Re: Spark Teleports

EVE reduces 24 hour timer to 19 hours


"For Odyssey 1.1 we are adding a skill - Informorph Synchronizing - which will lower the time between jumping clones by one hour per level."


-----    After years of staying at 1 day, they drop it down to a more reasonable 19 hours (with level 5 trained)


I think you guys get the point here.




https://forums.eveonline.com/default.as … ost3447832

95 (edited by Gunner 2013-08-07 05:18:00)

Re: Spark Teleports

WE KNOW YOU DONT UNDERSTAND, that is the problem



PvP is like chess, you have to see 20 moves ahead and you dont see the FIRST move.



DEV Zoom wrote:

If this is the problem then I don't understand how a cooldown would help, since you would get the timer AFTER you've already teleported there and contributed to whatever PvP defense necessary.

The issue with transport assignments should be solved with the new system, that one doesn't require a spark teleport change.

96 (edited by Burial 2013-08-07 05:45:54)

Re: Spark Teleports

Explain better then.. and don't compare Perpetuum to EVE, or any other game with different mechanics.

Re: Spark Teleports

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev … jonny-pew/

The Difference is the size, if anything Perp is WAY ahead of the competition, in this regard.

In the video way down at the bottom, it takes him over a hour to get to where he wants to.  Yes A HOUR.  Here, it would take me, about 15 min to get from one side to the other.  He is only going 1/3 of the map.  With that comes having to move stuff there to be able to be USED.  That takes logistics, MORE PVP.  It happens all the time in that game. 

This is like chess, just add it into your variables, we already have, catch up!

The Gifter
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Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

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Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

Explain better then.. and don't compare Perpetuum to EVE, or any other game with different mechanics.

Right, such as jump drives, jump bridges, implants, etc. The comparison doesn't work, the argument should stand on it's own.

99

Re: Spark Teleports

So what Im hearing is one side asking fro what equals to a penalty :

Example : my buddy found a nice target he wants me to help him kill i spark we go to kill the target we kill it and go back to terminal ... now we are stuck here for 4 hours or spend the next 20 to 30 minutes jumping from island to island to get back where we/i was.

there is more pvp because of spark teleport ( it allows people to gather together quickly to attack targets)
spark teleport only eliminated the parade that corps put on when looking for things to kill. <<< that parade was a sign to hide not come out to pvp... because the other guys were out ab mobilized and ready to fight.

I would really like to see all of you guys who have a problem with spark teleport delete all your sparks and start walking everywhere you want to go again ..

the game is only better because of spark teleport

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Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

100 (edited by Gunner 2013-08-07 09:37:17)

Re: Spark Teleports

The game isnt large at all because you can be everywhere with a click.

It may as well just be one piece of land with all the stations in the center, because that is actually what it is when you can move to them in a seconds, then back and forth.

its tiny