Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:

...and either you cant or wont assault our gamma, so that leaves nothing for you to attack except Arganos.

Because your Arganos are your only bots which go more than 1500 meters from a spark safe zone.

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

Re: Spark Teleports

At least those are the one's we want you to see.....

The Gifter
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Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:
Khader Khan wrote:

Stuff

A) No, you need simple supply and demand.  There is no demand.
B)  Money facets are only bad when you cant access them.  Mongolia can attest to this when he was privately msging me, to tell me to not tell everyone else about the tokens/beacons.
C) beacons got nerfed, and there are no more structure kernels.  Tokens are almost worthless again, hence why no one is running missions, and tokens are going for 50-60k on the market, where once they were going for 100-150k (Strange how this supply and demand thing works)
D) and no, the single most broken mechanic, is Beta islands in general.  They are pointless, and either you cant or wont assault our gamma, so that leaves nothing for you to attack except Arganos.

A). When you get done with your geophysics book could you pick up world economics while your at it.  Unlimited Supply and instant market transactions will NEVER out way demand.  IDC if there's thousands of players.
B). I have learned when it smells like a broken mechanic, looks like one, and tastes like one it IS ONE....  People got banned for *** like this. 
C). There's no demand for over saturated wallets.
D). Abused broken mechanics for months to create an ultimate turtle island!  Believe it or not true pvpers hate the structure attacks to non fluid targets.  If I wanted to do that I'd continue beating the bots in Dota 2 on easy... 

This only helps.

@Zortarg thanks for finally admitting your only defending this because there's so few playing.

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Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:

Abused broken mechanics for months to create an ultimate turtle island!  Believe it or not true pvpers hate the structure attacks to non fluid targets.  If I wanted to do that I'd continue beating the bots in Dota 2 on easy... .

LMAO QFT Mopping the floor with easy bots is best dota win

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Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

Theres no point screwing up whole Perpetuum's structure just to have small chance of extra PVP and ganks(which is still open for debate). You fail to realise that spark teleports are more used for non-PVP activities than they are for PVP.

Now, after the beacon nerf, I don't even forsee heavy mission running anymore. Beta islands are slowly but surely crumbling to dust in the usefulness scale.

The beacons got fixed because u could do this http://vimeo.com/71536533 . And thats not the good burns, we had better with even more beacons finishing to the end.

56 (edited by Jasdemi 2013-08-01 23:20:46)

Re: Spark Teleports

Every Ville-thread is like a meeting of all Ville victims. No matter if he's being legit or trolling, it always ends in *** corp drama. I'm a little jelly. I wish I had this much power over the currently biggest corp in game.

57 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-08-01 23:33:32)

Re: Spark Teleports

the basic tenets of supply and demand can still apply in a world of infinite resources.  The underlying principle is still the same,  hence why norg, colixium, and Epri are more expensive then the other common materials.

if you dnt believe this i will gladly swap you my 5000U of titan for your 5000U colixium?

58 (edited by Ville 2013-08-01 23:34:05)

Re: Spark Teleports

Hehe this makes me giggle. @jasdemi

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Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:

the basic tenets of supply and demand can still apply in a world of infinite resources.  The underlying principle is still the same,  hence why norg, colixium, and Epri are more expensive then the other common materials.

Everyone in the room is now dumber.  Thanks Martha.

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Re: Spark Teleports

Beacons right now are close to the point that if you are not running 3-stripers, you are better off farming top spawns on Alpha2.

61 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-08-01 23:37:03)

Re: Spark Teleports

But if colixium is infinite then why is it worth more than titan?  or is your assumption just a wee bit flawed?

According to your theory, people shouldn't be buying anything at all because its all infinite and anyone can get everything in infinite quantities correct?

Re: Spark Teleports

OMG Martha you are so brilliant I'm so glad your insightful knowledge of logistics and game mechanics prohibiting the mass removal of a particular ore are so apparent.  Your right noralgis never went for 90 nic a piece and fell to a point were it was not bought on the market nor did 57 nic epi ever exist.  Wow I'm so glad you showed me the error in my ways maybe I can finish off my bar tab with out hitting $100 to try to get the mass amounts of ignorance out of my mind that you so graciously bestowed upon me.

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Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:

OMG Martha you are so brilliant I'm so glad your insightful knowledge of logistics and game mechanics prohibiting the mass removal of a particular ore are so apparent.  Your right noralgis never went for 90 nic a piece and fell to a point were it was not bought on the market nor did 57 nic epi ever exist.  Wow I'm so glad you showed me the error in my ways maybe I can finish off my bar tab with out hitting $100 to try to get the mass amounts of ignorance out of my mind that you so graciously bestowed upon me.

That's two idiotic posts completely ignoring a very basic economic principle.

Land, capital, labor. Look it up.

Re: Spark Teleports

The problem must be that you guys just don't have enough bots and mods to spread around all your spark locations... But that's what happens when you stop playing perp and other people don't.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: Spark Teleports

Connect the dots wrote:
Burial wrote:

Theres no point screwing up whole Perpetuum's structure just to have small chance of extra PVP and ganks(which is still open for debate). You fail to realise that spark teleports are more used for non-PVP activities than they are for PVP.

Now, after the beacon nerf, I don't even forsee heavy mission running anymore. Beta islands are slowly but surely crumbling to dust in the usefulness scale.

The beacons got fixed because u could do this http://vimeo.com/71536533 . And thats not the good burns, we had better with even more beacons finishing to the end.


Pretty awesome video btw -  and I like your beacon pit design.  Good job!

Re: Spark Teleports

@Zoom food for thought.  Name one pvp MMO that let's plays instantly travel across the entire world without a cool down?

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67

Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:

@Zoom food for thought.  Name one pvp MMO that let's plays instantly travel across the entire world without a cool down?

There is features in Perp that ARE in other games
There is features in Perp that ARE NOT in other games

Challenging a feature because it is or is not in other games makes no sense ... This game is not like other sandbox games for a very good reason . .

Could spark teleport use some modifying ? maybe but the drastic changes that some have called for are just pushing the knee jerking quick fix mentality that the devs have slowly moved away from ... i agree with others that when more of the root problems are fixed spark teleport will be a non issue (missions).

I ask, why is it unbalanced or a problem if every person in the game can do the same thing>? to me what your saying is that the political landscape does not favor the mechanic being fair and equal for everyone. I think that is due to politics of the game and not the mechanic.

Others have mentioned they fear flagging UP for pvp because of who or what may spark into a nearby station and come out to support the other side.  <<< people are to scared to lose pixels IMO, no where is it written that anyone should be able to gank/kill someone and get away free of retaliation.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

68 (edited by Ion Halo 2013-08-05 22:16:49)

Re: Spark Teleports

I can care less about spark teleport, maybe take it out of beta and leave it for gamma bases only. or leave it alone entirely.

Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:

@Zoom food for thought.  Name one pvp MMO that let's plays instantly travel across the entire world without a cool down?

EVE, using jump drives.

But really, this thread was basically a corporation dialogue three posts in. None of us here are pushing for actually improving the game, just their own agenda.

Re: Spark Teleports

I'm not convinced either way. The current world is too small for this feature? Maybe. But you still can't bring anything along with you when you teleport. A cooldown would effectively kill anyone's game for x hours if they teleport to a base where they don't have anything. Maybe, just maybe we'll reconsider this, once we have solved the problem of not being able to modify market orders remotely.

Re: Spark Teleports

1 hour is too long , maybe 5 or 10 minutes max should be enough.

72 (edited by Cassius 2013-08-06 00:21:01)

Re: Spark Teleports

Ville, I'll expand a bit here in the proper thread rather than Khader's corp dialogue thread.

Small gang pvp died upon the introduction of Gamma. Why? Because Beta's became secondary and the game playing area became huge, in relation to the population. Even with a small population while I was in WarDec Beta roams were possible but slowly faded, as the population faded. Right now, the playing area could easily support 500-1000 persistent players. If the game had this population most problems would disappear ... Markets would flourish, all forms of pvp would occur, mining for resale rather than personal use, trade, all would flourish. Spark teleporting did not cause issues for small gang pvp.

Look at EvE, since its been brought up. Read their forums, for years now there is the lament of no small gang pvp. And their supposed golden system is one clone jump per day.

You asked Zoom what MMO allows instant unlimited teleportation?  Perp doesn't. Make a character today. How many places can you teleport to? None, right off the bat. You are ignoring the set up time and EP required to use sparks effectively.

A 5 minute cooldown would be sufficient to nerf the mission riches somewhat. There are almost no players who haven't taken advantage of this. You yourself once told me Ville that the Dom war allowed you access to the missions and you got your 6.0 standings on all your characters. Did you want the sparks nerfed then?

Re: Spark Teleports

DEV Zoom wrote:

I'm not convinced either way. The current world is too small for this feature? Maybe. But you still can't bring anything along with you when you teleport. A cooldown would effectively kill anyone's game for x hours if they teleport to a base where they don't have anything. Maybe, just maybe we'll reconsider this, once we have solved the problem of not being able to modify market orders remotely.


You JUST NAILED IT.

If you expand on the world we just will not have enough sparks to be "everywhere" we want.  (Were ask for more but meh.) Then WHEN you spark you still have to of moved in bot before hand to make any sort of difference. 

Most want to ignore that you have to move stuff into the station to make any sort of difference.

Me personally, I would MUCH rather see the game expanded x10 more betas, just MORE.  However, this must be done at the correct time.  But, beta's, are just that Beta's, they re the inbetweens, the ones left out.  They are suppose to be hostel, battlegrounds.

As it is now its such a draw to people allowing them to travel quickly.  Removing a bit of the insane boredom of just moving.

(Would much rather see more highways from termails to teles on alpha, and RIGHT TO and from teles.)

I'm talking off the cuff here, far to late at night for me to make any sense.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Spark Teleports

Cassius worded what I had trouble with wording myself without sounding like an -complete- idiot. Why not (1) swap gamma-production bonuses for the one's at beta's? And (2) make beta walls deteriorate at an increasing rate if a lot of it is being used around an outpost (imagine the outpost computer having more and more trouble coordinating the nanotech the walls are made up of).

This would offset the absolute safety (nothing relative about it) of gamma and have beta play more into the relative small population at the moment. This would however not affect what people are enjoying on gamma now or devalue gamma bases by much (if at all). Just make beta's worth having and allow for actual deprivation (e.g. 'I don't need it [because I have my own], but I don't want you to have it').

Bonus is that (at least I'm pretty sure) this can be quickly implemented and/or reverted.

75 (edited by Khader Khan 2013-08-06 13:26:09)

Re: Spark Teleports

DEV Zoom wrote:

I'm not convinced either way. The current world is too small for this feature? Maybe. But you still can't bring anything along with you when you teleport. A cooldown would effectively kill anyone's game for x hours if they teleport to a base where they don't have anything. Maybe, just maybe we'll reconsider this, once we have solved the problem of not being able to modify market orders remotely.

If I'm to stupid to use personal asset search before I Spark I can always just request arkhe and blood port back to xyz alpha.

The market kiddies ..... Biggest joke ever a good market......

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