26 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-08-01 00:32:47)

Re: Spark Teleports

Mongolia Jones wrote:

I have NOT fought precisely BECAUSE of the threat of having 10 mechs spark in on me.  I can attest that I have PvPed LESS because of the spark situation.

So basically you just proved my point.  You don't want to actually fight, you want to run in and gank what you can and then run away, and not have to deal with the response. I'm glad you see things my way.

Re: Spark Teleports

Cause obviously, what we have been doing for the past 6 months is working amirite?

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

28 (edited by BeastmodeGuNs 2013-08-01 03:40:16)

Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:
Mongolia Jones wrote:

I have NOT fought precisely BECAUSE of the threat of having 10 mechs spark in on me.  I can attest that I have PvPed LESS because of the spark situation.

So basically you just proved my point.  you don't want to actually fight, you want to run in and gank what you can and then run away, and not have to deal with the response. I'm glad you see things my way.

coming from the side that needs everything including the kitchen sink to fight, lol!

and for the part about dealing with response, um... hello? fast tacklers? detectors? 5+ emergency teleport beacons down at once? people rdy to teleport spark anywhere on the island instantly? Any of that ring a bell to you?

sounds like your just too slow roll

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

Re: Spark Teleports

Back to my -1  post.

If you're worried about mission abuse -  change the mission system.

Otherwise - there is no PVP abuse -  everyone can do the same thing.

Re: Spark Teleports

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Martha Stuart wrote:
Mongolia Jones wrote:

I have NOT fought precisely BECAUSE of the threat of having 10 mechs spark in on me.  I can attest that I have PvPed LESS because of the spark situation.

So basically you just proved my point.  you don't want to actually fight, you want to run in and gank what you can and then run away, and not have to deal with the response. I'm glad you see things my way.

coming from the side that needs everything including the kitchen sink to fight, lol!

and for the part about dealing with response, um... hello? fast tacklers? detectors? 5+ emergency teleport beacons down at once? people rdy to teleport spark anywhere on the island instantly? Any of that ring a bell to you?

sounds like your just too slow roll

If you think about it, adding a simple cooldown to the spark teleportation would not help there a single bit. Enemy can still spark instantly to the terminal where needed. Only thing it would archieve is to slow the game even more down due to not being certain when it's ok to spark and not. People would travel a lot more with conventional methods and save spark teleports for emergency uses. Blood sparking with Arkhes would be back again. Would that really be good?

Re: Spark Teleports

1. Add 1-4 hours cooldown
2. Provoke your enemy at FP A with small forces
3. Wait till enemy spark and deploy their fleet
4. Attack with the rest of your forces at FP B
5. ENAMY FORCES SEPARATED WIN-WIN ZERG 'EM!!11oneoneeleven

-1

32 (edited by Mongolia Jones 2013-08-01 13:18:03)

Re: Spark Teleports

Burial wrote:

People would travel a lot more with conventional methods....

^^^ This ^^^

Even though Burial is making a case AGAINST traveling with conventional methods (they would rather spark everywhere), that is exactly what this game is missing.

Recently Burial had to bring "kot" in his Castel from Telesis -> ICS Beta and as a result of that travel there was pvp when he was in route.  If instead he sparked "kot" to ICS Beta then no resulting pvp.

Hence, travel = pvp, spark = no/reduced pvp

With more traditional traveling, more pvp cometh.

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

Re: Spark Teleports

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Burial wrote:

People would travel a lot more with conventional methods....

^^^ This ^^^

Even though Burial is making a case AGAINST traveling with conventional methods (they would rather spark everywhere), that is exactly what this game is missing.

Recently Burial had to bring "kot" in his Castel from Telesis -> ICS Beta and as a result of that travel there was pvp when he was in route.  If instead he sparked "kot" to ICS Beta then no resulting pvp.

Hence, travel = pvp, spark = no/reduced pvp

With more traditional traveling, more pvp cometh.

This.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Spark Teleports

You guys don't understand what it was like when literally HUNDREDS of people living on THREE islands was.  If you had you know exactly what we are talking about.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Spark Teleports

Ville wrote:

You guys don't understand what it was like when literally HUNDREDS of people living on THREE islands was.  If you had you know exactly what we are talking about.

that is the problem ville. we dont have hundrets of ppl living on each island. this and this alone. not the spark teleport.

36 (edited by Burial 2013-08-01 14:11:53)

Re: Spark Teleports

That goes both ways. I can give you examples where PVP happend just because people could conveniently spark to the right location at the right time. As you can see, PVP examples shouldn't be biggest factors when talking about spark teleportation tweaking. It's clear to see that you are not looking at the bigger picture here(traveling problems, beta island problems), but just whats more convenient and better for you, at this time.

If you want more PVP, then you need to start looking for issues from other locations.

37 (edited by BeastmodeGuNs 2013-08-01 14:34:46)

Re: Spark Teleports

Zortarg Calltar wrote:
Ville wrote:

You guys don't understand what it was like when literally HUNDREDS of people living on THREE islands was.  If you had you know exactly what we are talking about.

that is the problem ville. we dont have hundrets of ppl living on each island. this and this alone. not the spark teleport.

forgot that we will have hundreds walking around ingame again when steam does kick in even though there are more islands? roll

Burial wrote:

If I want more PvP i should stop bringing everything including the kitchen sink and bring the amount and bot type based on what im up against more often fuuu

Could not resist smile

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

38 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-08-01 14:36:01)

Re: Spark Teleports

This entire argument revolves around the fact that our alliance has more pilots than yours.  You don't want to have to deal with the full fleet we can field.  I guarantee that if the CIR or Chaos fleet was back, and you were flying with them, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  The evidence for this is that the entire time CIR was back in the game, and you were winning fights and could field more numbers than us, no one ever brought this up.  But the second you guys fall into a major numerical disadvantage all of a sudden the spark system is broken, and the TF is unfair, and this and that.  I give you props for fighting with the weapons you have at hand (the forums), but this wont solve anything it will just make the game more tedious.  EVERYONE hates conventional traveling.  If the highways went to all stations and all tele's there might be some validity to your argument, but they don't, so there isn't.

Re: Spark Teleports

We're also deciding on not mentioning HOW the bots get into the station to begin with, someone has to bring them in. Bots do not just magically appear in any station you want.  A spark is only helpful in PVP if you have a bot in said station to do so. 
Thusly, we DO have to travel to a from stations, as we do die, and we do have to restock what we lost. You just don't see it as we take precautions when we do.

Why is your side complaining you get all the PVP when you want, it's just not HOW you want it.

We do have hundreds of people living on each island, I fail to see how this is all of a sudden, the Dev's fault.  Seeing this is a sandbox.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Spark Teleports

Beta islands have been going down hill since walls 1.0

Re: Spark Teleports

Merkle wrote:

We're also deciding on not mentioning HOW the bots get into the station to begin with, someone has to bring them in. Bots do not just magically appear in any station you want.  A spark is only helpful in PVP if you have a bot in said station to do so. 
Thusly, we DO have to travel to a from stations, as we do die, and we do have to restock what we lost. You just don't see it as we take precautions when we do.

So based on your above statement you agree that the act of conventional travel does increase the opportunity for pvp, yes?  Isn't it better to implement those things that increase pvp opportunities (i.e. traditional travel, less sparking, etc.)


Merkle wrote:

Why is your side complaining you get all the PVP when you want, it's just not HOW you want it.

Wait a sec, Martha Stewart in post #16 just said there is very little pvp, now you say above we can get all the pvp we want.

You really should get with your corp mates and decide on a single story before posting lies.

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

Re: Spark Teleports

Martha Stuart wrote:

This entire argument revolves around the fact that our alliance has more pilots than yours.  You don't want to have to deal with the full fleet we can field.  I guarantee that if the CIR or Chaos fleet was back, and you were flying with them, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  The evidence for this is that the entire time CIR was back in the game, and you were winning fights and could field more numbers than us, no one ever brought this up.

No!

Firstly, when we were allied with CIR we rarely (I never) used our advantage to spark-gank in on my enemies.  We were an alliance that formed for scheduled SAP defense.

Secondly, once the threat to us was gone, we would NOT have stayed allied with CIR.  We would un-ally them so that there would be more targets/pvp.  Unlike your blue-coalition which is not interested in any REAL pvp.  You guys are only interested in SPARK-10 mechs-bandwagon-killboard.


Martha Stuart wrote:

EVERYONE hates conventional traveling.

I don't, so evidently you are wrong on one account.  Maybe we should take a poll, what do you think?

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

Re: Spark Teleports

atm you could use spark to get assignments, spark back and fullfill them elsewhere.
This is not new, and we complained several month ago about, but atm a spark cooldown on beta would prevent that. On alpha, you have no benefit on sparking to other place to get assignment, as eg. mining require you to bring the minerals back to terminal you got the assignment, this is not the case on beta.

This alone would qualify for a cooldown.

Re: Spark Teleports

Maybe you should get your corp in line, http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252733, you were clearly allied with them. 

Yourself too - http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=253324

You talk of PVP, yet what you like to do is rarely considered PVP.  Its ganking, I do it as well, its more about the hunt then who you kill, or what.  What you want to get is more ganking, more the solo style that you enjoy.  (Not a bad thing, as I enjoy this style as well.)

You do hate conventional traveling, your just not willing to admit it.  This little picture should explain generally what you do.

http://clip2net.com/s/5uCQFx

You dont even care to move around.  Someone hates to move there bots around.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

45 (edited by Mongolia Jones 2013-08-01 19:13:58)

Re: Spark Teleports

Merkle wrote:

Maybe you should get your corp in line, http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252733, you were clearly allied with them. 

Yourself too - http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=253324

Reading comp 101, I said we allied for SAP defense, those were not SPARK-overwhelming force-gank.  Read my poasts without emo and you will make less mistakes in future.


Merkle wrote:

You talk of PVP, yet what you like to do is rarely considered PVP.  Its ganking, I do it as well, its more about the hunt then who you kill, or what.  What you want to get is more ganking, more the solo style that you enjoy.  (Not a bad thing, as I enjoy this style as well.)

You have no idea what I like or dislike.  Unfortunately we never served any same corp so how would you know.  Ask people who know me what I like/dislike it will be quite different that what you think you know.


Merkle wrote:

You do hate conventional traveling, your just not willing to admit it.  This little picture should explain generally what you do.

http://clip2net.com/s/5uCQFx

You dont even care to move around.  Someone hates to move there bots around.

No!

I do/have traveled around, but that yields very little pvp today as my targets generally use sparks.  I do stay on one island but I probably travel ten times more in any given time period than the average STC guy typically travels.

BTW, nice to know you have a file on me.  I have noticed a precipitous decline in argano liquizit mining for missions in my "gank" zone  smile.

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

46 (edited by Burial 2013-08-01 19:37:18)

Re: Spark Teleports

Theres no point screwing up whole Perpetuum's structure just to have small chance of extra PVP and ganks(which is still open for debate). You fail to realise that spark teleports are more used for non-PVP activities than they are for PVP.

Now, after the beacon nerf, I don't even forsee heavy mission running anymore. Beta islands are slowly but surely crumbling to dust in the usefulness scale.

Re: Spark Teleports

Then general response I thought I would get.

Oh looky there it says so right in the file.  I have you down to a tee.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Spark Teleports

I can be everywhere anytime I want.

I win EVE

Re: Spark Teleports

A. The economy in perp needs a true economist to save it from its death throws.
B. Money faucets are bad for economy.
C. Spark teleport + lvl 6 Missons betas = *** money press + tokens which = more money from beacons which already got nerfed.
D. Oh look my Gamma is being pings Spark.... dock my beta has intrusion in 10 sec spark save. Oh look mongolia in a MK2 mesmer on Dom spark.

Its the single most broken game mechanic since auto aim in FPS. Devs you wanted to make the game seem bigger well it seems very small now.

Give us more spark to locations but a huge cool down to do it. If you commit to something your stuck with it for at least 60 mins. Before spark TPs we always had blood port. That other game has a 24 H cool down and it makes this game look tiny.

Participate, Congratulate cause everything else will be seen as HATE.
Max yellow max all skills lvl 10 min max for the win

50 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-08-01 22:05:34)

Re: Spark Teleports

Khader Khan wrote:

Stuff

A) No, you need simple supply and demand.  There is no demand.
B)  Money facets are only bad when you cant access them.  Mongolia can attest to this when he was privately msging me, to tell me to not tell everyone else about the tokens/beacons.
C) beacons got nerfed, and there are no more structure kernels.  Tokens are almost worthless again, hence why no one is running missions, and tokens are going for 50-60k on the market, where once they were going for 100-150k (Strange how this supply and demand thing works)
D) and no, the single most broken mechanic, is Beta islands in general.  They are pointless, and either you cant or wont assault our gamma, so that leaves nothing for you to attack except Arganos.