1 (edited by Burial 2013-06-21 12:58:14)

Topic: Ore relocation

As some of you here have already suggested, I think that good way to make betas meaningful and nerfing gamma industry is to remove certain ores from gamma, and balancing them on alpha.

Epriton

Epriton should only be findable on beta islands. Absolutely remove it from gamma islands.

Silgium, Imentium, Stermonit

Silgium, Imentium and Stermonit should have their field amounts, sizes and tile colors reduced on gamma and alpha islands. Beta fields should be made bigger and deeper in color, making these minerals ideal for newbies to mine on alpha while not nerfing gamma production too much.

A wild Noralgis appears

As a bonus, wild Noralgis should grow on beta islands, much like regular harvestable plants.

Re: Ore relocation

Sounds nice but Colixium should have more meaning then.

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Re: Ore relocation

Looking a bit further, Colixium will have plenty of meaning when new tech and bots arrive. smile

Re: Ore relocation

not this old horse again roll

Re: Ore relocation

I'm against the relocation of minerals. 

Theres a Huge Flaw right now:

The original Beta design did not take into accoount the "Lock out/Access control" Mechanic we have now.  So in the old days, a 1 time intrusion came up on an alliance island they lost the terminal the enemy gained all the income of the structure that the other alliance used it for, but people theoritically didn't lose their Home.  Now if a server side blob shows up to flip an outpost, they can lock people out of their stuff.  This has a negative impact on the player base.  People will just stop logging in. 

If you do this:  Two things will happen.  You will force A fight over 6 Islands.  Ok we get some cool pvp for a while between the TWO same sides, and it will force the population to once again Ally with the SAME TWO *** SIDES.  Because any third defecto alliance will be too small to counter either's side without a loose knit "coalition/Nap" and we all know what that leads too...  The smaller alliance won't ever fight their bigger political counter part and only attack the other... kinda forcing an alliance...  Ok so any idea of getting a multiple sided war is out the window with this.  Now I know their is a dynamic SAP system in place that can help stabilize this, but honestly, with the amounts of gifted/traded W/E accounts hanging out there its not hard for 3 dudes to wake up at 2 AM log in 15 accounts, in an attempt to just scare off the 3 people who own the station just hanging out trying to defend their station.

The second part that will happen is once someone trys to get a foot hold theres going to be 1000000 pvp hungry hounds pounding their *** in nightly.  Noone will have time to do *** on these islands.  It will be a huge magnet and the people living their will just simple stop.  Just like flipping Gammas, people just stop playing once they've been defeated.

For this idea two things needs to happen:

Access controls need to be removed on NPC outposts and Epi needs to become a solid, I will admit mistake when I was for liquid epi, but it needs to happen.

I don't like the "locking out" mechanic one bit.  It restricts the game play and looses its illusiveness for the players.  Players can only "Hide out" on Gammas at the moment.  Beta's are too restrictive and I don't like that.  It makes me feel as a player we are being forced to play only one way and thats not what a sandbox is about. 

Overall Burial -1.

I would rather there be gamma improves to prevent islands from being completely terraformed off from one another.

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6 (edited by Burial 2013-06-08 18:04:06)

Re: Ore relocation

No-one forces you to fight over outpost ownership. Sure, they help a lot, but you could pull off mining operations on the islands without any outpost access at all or just mine on beta1-s and use beta terminals. If you can't do that, then I'm sure Epriton could be bought from the market, at a premium price. With my suggestion, Epriton is the only mineral that needs to start to come from beta. The race specific minerals can still be mined from both alpha and gamma, it will just not be that efficient.

Overally most of the points you see negatively are in my eyes positive. Right now beta islands need a lot more attention for PVP to pick up. smile

Re: Ore relocation

before we argue points to redesign the game, I think we should wait and allow the dev's to run there course of the coming changes.

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Re: Ore relocation

Burial wrote:

No-one forces you to fight over outpost ownership. Sure, they help a lot, but you could pull off mining operations on the islands without any outpost access at all or just mine on beta1-s and use beta terminals. If you can't do that, then I'm sure Epriton could be bought from the market, at a premium price. With my suggestion, Epriton is the only mineral that needs to start to come from beta. The race specific minerals can still be mined from both alpha and gamma, it will just not be that efficient.

Overally most of the points you see negatively are in my eyes positive. Right now beta islands need a lot more attention for PVP to pick up. smile

Beta Islands are boring, the real warfare for a Real sandbox needs to be on Gamma.  And lets face it burial with spark teleportation the point you made with "Those free terminals" is invalid.

Xadofos wrote:

before we argue points to redesign the game, I think we should wait and allow the dev's to run there course of the coming changes.

.......  Thats the ENTIRE reason forums were designed for games, to discuss ideas to the community....  Really dude you can't be this .... maybe you can.

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Re: Ore relocation

we have opened all of the beta 1 terminals for everyone so you should have access to what ever you need at thoes locations.

With out the lock out feature there is no point in owning the terminal ... might as well take the ownership feature away .

I dont think the driver for pvp should be minerals .. more like loot-able items if you can hunt "special" NPC's that only spawn on beta that drop rare items it would drive pvp.

roaming for miners is lame and miners will do everything they can to avoid mining in dangerous areas. thats why there has been such a huge effort to secure Gamma islands.

once you try to force this you will just get floods of industrialists posting saying how its not viable to be a miner in the game and you will have to have x+ accounts just to mine anything that makes a profit ... because you will need armed guard to mine epri and thats the building block of all MPC, and T3 and higher items.

in short ... there needs to be a "SOFT"  driver for pvp on beta .. and it needs to be valuable but not "critical" to production

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10 (edited by Goffer 2013-06-09 13:05:07)

Re: Ore relocation

-1

First of all, ask those who produced on beta when there were all ores available what impact it had to remove titan from beta before asking again to remove an important ore from an island type. It is nasty enough, that you need to haul ores to gamma, that are not available there but are only for small part of products needed.

Second having Epi on beta only would first lead to massive walling in again due to several reasons. At least if in same moment the stocks from all big corps would be emptied of Epi (in fact as long as the large corps have  enough Epi in stock for the next month, this would slowly develop over 3-5 weeks).

Re: Ore relocation

Sounds like you're getting bored and wanna make people to go to Beta where they can be roamed.

Does the medicine taste as good when you're on the receiving end?

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Ore relocation

want to balance the gamma and create more pvp?  Put a 7 day respawn ore fields timer in place on gamma, to prevent 100 corps from living on the same island.  Make nora not placeable within a 2K radius of gamma stations.

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13

Re: Ore relocation

wanna make beta important ?

make cortex's only loot able from special npc's found only on beta

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Ore relocation

They're called SAPs. They typically "spawn" every 8-16 hours and it takes you ~10 minutes of sustained "DPS" to "kill" them.

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15 (edited by Cassius 2013-06-10 15:45:45)

Re: Ore relocation

Making Epi a Beta only ore would force all mining of this mineral on to an open and accessible PVP area.

This means if you don't want to risk a bot you would have to buy it on market at a premium.
It means haulers and logistics for the impregnable Gamma bases need to traverse to open and accessible PVP areas more often than currently.

Ore prices increase and PVP opportunity increases, I fail to see the problem here.


Edit: This has nothing to do with current Beta ownership. That could change in an instant if people so chose.
I want to see the Game flourish so as such I suggest things that I think are good for the game, not me personally. The current politics don't mean anything in this regard.

16 (edited by Tux 2013-06-10 16:13:56)

Re: Ore relocation

If it takes ~ 10 minutes or less  to get cortex's every 8-16 hours how does that promote pvp on a beta ? It does not.

Making New NPC's that drop the cortex's roam the island will make it so players have to hunt them down and kill them, like people use to hunt observers.

* Tracking NPC's all over the island will take longer than the 10 minute active sap, and could haven "all the time" not just at some supposed random / predetermined time.

* this mechanic will have players in combat bots hunting NPC's.  These guys will tracked by other players in combat bots.  NOT players in combat bots hunting down a group of miners on a epri field how is that good pvp.

Take into account walls and the safe log /gate scout and where is the pvp.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Ore relocation

-1 your still thinking about populations of 12.

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18 (edited by Norrdec 2013-06-10 16:42:00)

Re: Ore relocation

Cassius wrote:

Making Epi a Beta only ore would force all mining of this mineral on to an open and accessible PVP area.

This means if you don't want to risk a bot you would have to buy it on market at a premium.
It means haulers and logistics for the impregnable Gamma bases need to traverse to open and accessible PVP areas more often than currently.

Ore prices increase and PVP opportunity increases, I fail to see the problem here.

Edit: This has nothing to do with current Beta ownership. That could change in an instant if people so chose.
I want to see the Game flourish so as such I suggest things that I think are good for the game, not me personally. The current politics don't mean anything in this regard.

There's no accessible PVP areas since Beta's can be made perfectly safe in two ways; either with trial alts (as we did), or with proximity probes (as M2S did).

Both ways result in the only "risk" involved being logged out accounts on Beta 2's, or people with sparks & assets in NPC terminals on Beta 1's. Detectors & terminal scouts take care of that.

Tux wrote:

If it takes ~ 10 minutes or less  to get cortex's every 8-16 hours how does that promote pvp on a beta ? It does not.

Making New NPC's that drop the cortex's roam the island will make it so players have to hunt them down and kill them, like people use to hunt observers.

* Tracking NPC's all over the island will take longer than the 10 minute active sap, and could haven "all the time" not just at some supposed random / predetermined time.

* this mechanic will have players in combat bots hunting NPC's.  These guys will tracked by other players in combat bots.  NOT players in combat bots hunting down a group of miners on a epri field how is that good pvp.

Take into account walls and the safe log /gate scout and where is the pvp.

Nothing promotes PVP on Beta because the game has infinite resources available on every island, and there's more islands then players in-game therefore there is no reason or incentive to fight anyone over anything aside from epeen reasons, like when you shoot at my terminal and then I repair it and rename it Try Harder Again.

Same with outposts, theres more outposts in-game then players. I reckon you could divide up the people actually playing across all 6 Beta islands hunting these NPC's and you still wouldn't have a reason to PVP because there aren't enough people to create the conflict.

Anyway welcome to 2011, most of us vets have been saying the same things back then.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Ore relocation

My next campaign slogan will be:

Remove Walls From Beta's

Glenn Beck 2016

Re: Ore relocation

And onto unintended consequences #1 -

What happens to gamma if you remove Epi?

Re: Ore relocation

The ONLY thing that will help is removing infiinitely spawning fields on Gamma, and putting a respawn timer on them, to discourage 15 corps living on one gamma island.

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22

Re: Ore relocation

Ville wrote:

The ONLY thing that will help is removing infiinitely spawning fields on Gamma, and putting a respawn timer on them, to discourage 15 corps living on one gamma island.

This would start to help but it would just cause more gammas to be locked down .. that is all

There seems to be a shortage of stuff being blown up causing massive stocks on minerals in everyone's hands.

Solution: add 30+ NPC roaming spawns to every gamma so its hard to mine ... as it is right now i can mine entire fields or several fields in a day with out seeing a single NPC.

Gamma is the NEW untamed Frontier where is all the wildlife. they would certainly slow down the ease of mining on gamma. (just like fields spawning on static npc spawns on beta)

Forget trying to force pvp if people dont want it it wont happen. . . even by restricting epri to beta

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Ore relocation

No it wouldn't. people would terraform box's around their mining fields and it would make gamma even more lucrative.

Re: Ore relocation

Ok, so the current mineral respawn system works like this: we have a minimum and a maximum amount threshold for every type of mineral per island. The system tries to keep the mineral amounts available between those two values. If the amount drops below the minimum threshold, a new field is spawned at a random location on the island.

Here is the idea: what if these thresholds would consider the mineral amounts globally on all islands, or at least on all gammas. This would have the effect that islands with lot of intensive mining would sooner or later get depleted, and the availability of new mineral fields would shift towards the islands that are untouched or have low traffic.

Unless the players strike a perfect balance of mining intensity across all islands (which seems unlikely), this could mean everlasting waves of shifting back and forth between islands to seek out the richer fields. At least in theory smile

25 (edited by Xadhoom 2013-06-12 04:56:35)

Re: Ore relocation

Bad...Idea

I look at it like this!!

Indy promotos pvp through gather resource and building mods and bots, and not the cause for pvp.

You need people out there with a reason for combat roams or missions etc..

If you do indeed do this then I will require you do it with all island include alpha.

Think of a different driver for pvp, and not use the poor indy bot ganking to be the pvp.

2nd Top Killer 2012
02: 061 -- 353 -- 292 : Xadhoom


"Annihilator no fix for crashes when fighting burial/merkle/xadhoom ?"