Topic: New devblog: Progress report

Sorry for the long silence, here is a quick update on our research system progress and some more:

http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … ss-report/

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Nice one, Zoom! Now just try to post such blogs once in a week smile

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Line wrote:

Nice one, Zoom! Now just try to post such blogs once in a week smile

or maybe at least once every 2 months yarr

That one forum warrior

Re: New devblog: Progress report

GL devs. smile

5 (edited by Syndic 2013-04-17 11:50:27)

Re: New devblog: Progress report

I hope you realize how much making prototyping robots a requirement will screw any new players/corporations that won't have the luxury to be sitting on thousands of stockpiled robots and hundreds of CT's. wink

Good for me though, their value will skyrocket. big_smile

Also there are two inconsistencies that should be clarified/addressed:

1. Ammo doesn't need to be prototyped to be manufactured.
2. Gamma T1-2-3 doesn't need to be prototyped to be manufactured.

Nice to see you crawled out of your shells and started posting though, hopefully we'll see a lot more blogs in the future.

OH AND RETROACTIVELY APPLY NEW KILLMAIL STUFF! big_smile

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Please pay attention to this concept artillery. Its development took almost half a year and thousands of man-hours. The robot fires a big gun at the target and all those who are close (50 meters) take damage from the explosion.
http://gyazo.com/1f6c26d6fd41ec82611f0217205f79ae
You may begin to thank. This development is worth a thousand Dolar, but as a true fan I give it away for free

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Syndic wrote:

Also there are two inconsistencies that should be clarified/addressed:

1. Ammo doesn't need to be prototyped to be manufactured.
2. Gamma T1-2-3 doesn't need to be prototyped to be manufactured.

Right you are, I wasn't really clear on this. Actually the new system gives a reason to research everything because of the personal+corporation production combo bonus.

So yeah in this regard it wouldn't be that necessary to create prototype robots either, but it would bring a little fresh blood I guess. I'm not sure we should create prototype versions for ammo or buildings though...

Syndic wrote:

OH AND RETROACTIVELY APPLY NEW KILLMAIL STUFF!

I'm not sure how serious this was, but unfortunately we can't recreate detailed logs of past battles out of thin air smile

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Zoom just a request, how feasible on a balancing side of things would this be?

Normal robots (standard bonuses) then prototyped robots having the current mk2 bonuses then revamp mk2s to require a cortex plus a proto bot and give them more CPU/reactor plus some additional leet bonuses.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

You had me at "even EW usage"

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Vroom: not really, prototype versions of modules are only lighter and have slightly better fitting. So in line with that, prototype robots would also only have slightly better CPU/reactor (think +1% or so), and maybe slightly higher base mass (so module weight would affect them less). Mk2s already have extra slots and added bonuses, they don't really fit into the prototype concept, they are really upgraded variants.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

The reason I suggested it this way it would be a balanced approach to adding more "varied" approach to pvping with these bots.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

For example:  the proto'd version of the kain would still have the same slots head and legs as a regular kain but better CPU/reactor (please make this at least 5%) but would have mk2 bonuses.  Then the mk2 would have everything the proto has plus the additional slots and 1 more useful bonus.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Let's not forget that just like prototype modules, prototype robots are not intended for everyday use. Their role is mainly to give another reason to research them instead of reverse engineering one from the market. You can of course use them if you want and they should be slightly better too, but they are not intended to be Mk1.5.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

You added T2+ and T4+ to this game but immediately no to mk1.5?  It's not like this proposed idea would take weeks to do.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

I'm not saying there shouldn't be an Mk1.5 (although I don't see a reason for it), but that it shouldn't be mixed with the prototype system and its concepts.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … ts-i-want/

Just Saying.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

DEV Zoom wrote:

I'm not saying there shouldn't be an Mk1.5 (although I don't see a reason for it), but that it shouldn't be mixed with the prototype system and its concepts.

You dont want protos for the everyday player, fine. But what about those of us still funding your game that are sitting on massive resource piles? I'll never use my supply of 100 Artemis because there isnt enough population to kill them all. The elite of the game want a place to funnel our resources and get SOME bonus, even if it is 7x material price for a 5% bonus (similar to protos now).

Along this thought process I think you should really add prototype ammo. Current faction ammo is not balanced at all with the value of the tokens (and who could forget the opportunity cost of not buying those Advanced Area Scanner charges) and itd be a nice change of pace to have a manufactured alternative. Make it cost 7x normal ammo, for 5% damage, and I promise tons of folks will build it. This gives us something 'new' to build (lord knows this game needs new stuff) and itll also help the giant inflation problem you're going to run into soon.

18 (edited by Burial 2013-04-17 18:56:36)

Re: New devblog: Progress report

I think token store needs to re-balance the prices too but that's another topic for another time..

Making prototype bots useful is a good resource sink. +5% to fitting skills and few kmph speed boost isn't that much.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

I'm gonna get flak for this, but every time you support an argument by saying "the game is dying so you should do it/we pay for it so you should do it/we are veterans and have endless resources so you should do it/x feature is broken so you should put this in instead", god kills a kitten smile

It's already bad that the only thing we have in the game are "the elite of the game" but that's really no reason to make the gap between future newbies and veterans even worse than it is.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

first off: good work, keep it up. and nice to get a bit of information here and there...

but in general. i have seen a discussion here about prototyping gamma structures...
well i am total ok with prototyping bots. yea makes them a bit more expensive but it will stay on a ok level. that is totally different with gamma structures. i guess not everybody has produced or worked with them, but i can tell you they are realy expensive. even more if you have to prototype them. prototyping a terminal are imense costs, evem more if you want t3 where you first need a t1 then a t2 and then a t3. so if you want cts for all of them you basicly need to produce 3x t1, 2x t2 and 1x t3 atm. prototyping will be even worse with x10.
and the big point is that ct degenerate realy fast with structures. so if you need to prototype them you dont add some "smaller" costs like at items or bots.
a terminal(and facility) ct is reduced by 10 points per cycle.
with optimal gamma buildings and a usefull decoder you are barely abele to get them over 100p. you do not reach the 121p that would give you a extra cycle on it. so with 101+p you will get 6 buildings out of it and the ct will be brought down to 0p. but of cource you will need to use one of it for the creation of the next ct or you can no longer produce. so basicly its just 5 buildings per ct. that is a resource increasement of 20% on the terminal just to cover ct costs. so its already very expensive in comparison with other items that you can produce.

tldr: gamma structures are already very expensive and reserve engineering is already adding more costs like in all other production fields. so adding forced prototyping here will drive costs close to insanity.
if you intend to do something like that then you might need a heavy redesighn in that field or this stuff will get more expensive by a few factors.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Want to fix the gap between newbies and vets?  Try cutting the proto costs of equipment in half and not using 18 commodities to make a friggin light bot.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Vroom wrote:

Want to fix the gap between newbies and vets?  Try cutting the proto costs of equipment in half and not using 18 commodities to make a friggin light bot.

prototyping for the "normal" stuff (T2-T4) is not that expensive. it adds in general around ~10% to the total production costs. in some cases a bit less in some cases a bit more. only big difference are the structures.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Zortarg: yeah that's the main reason I don't think it would be a good idea to introduce ammo and building prototypes. Ammo is something that the newbie industrials can easily produce and a good item to get into the manufacturing career. And for buildings it would be just too much resources.

Prototyping robots is yet a suggestion from our side, even though that would also make it harder for newbies to get into the robot manufacturing business. I'm a bit torn on this one, we could easily just skip it altogether and stay with the production combo bonus only. I think that alone is a good incentive for research in the case of robots, since they need the most resources to build, providing the largest production advantage there.

24

Re: New devblog: Progress report

@ Zortarg: you are correct sir ... if the change is made so structures t2 @ t3 cannot be reverse it will do several things.

1. reduce turret spam because it will greatly increase the cost to build them and the needed power grid for them.

2. Give more value (pvp) to actually killing them because they are going to be limited by the people who actually have the tech research done and not the people who knew people that gave them the tech.

3. Severely increase the threshold of assets needed for a new corp to break into gamma, this is because there are very limited ways to get the large amount of (tokens > structure Kernels) needed to complete the research for the buildings. (of course this will change with the new research system) but I imagine not by much.

4. I will allow corporations to sell structures other than T1 on the market with out them "selling the family jewels"(this is much of the reason why T4 prototypes are not common on the market.)

I do however think in the future it will be better for the MPC system to be prototype based like all other items in the game.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: New devblog: Progress report

Zortarg Calltar wrote:
Vroom wrote:

Want to fix the gap between newbies and vets?  Try cutting the proto costs of equipment in half and not using 18 commodities to make a friggin light bot.

prototyping for the "normal" stuff (T2-T4) is not that expensive. it adds in general around ~10% to the total production costs. in some cases a bit less in some cases a bit more. only big difference are the structures.

You say that and 21,000 damaged common fragments later...  And that's only 60 protos.