26 (edited by Lightdrake 2010-12-18 01:54:00)

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

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Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Bullis wrote:
Jelan wrote:
Moran wrote:

because its a stupid penalty it effectively stops you from deleting characters ever

Havent you gone yet drama queen, jeebus.

@OP, i think the devs should offer some sort of wildcard option, i.e. frack i deleted a character, can i get it re-instated EXACTLY as it was when i deleted it.

There is no messing up a character at creation unless you went politics tongue  You can train any skill my old EvE titan pilot is an almost maxed out miner/builder, guess what i respecc'd him.  Live with your choices, man up and accept consequence of actions

did someone from m2s just call me a drama queen? lol

Dont flatter yourself, unless your moran wink

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

all i see here is a bunch of 50k characters protesting a change that don't affect them

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Perhaps it hasn't affected us because we took the time to understand how the system works, as opposed to going OOH CLICKY BUTTONS BUTTONS. lol

It's just a correlation that most of those who took the time to understand the system also started a couple weeks earlier.  Correlation is not causation.

The Blind Bot -- watch your six, my aim aint so good these days!

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Best thing I have herd is they do need to warn you when creating a char that would solve some problems around this. But also is what i have found out now is that i am running into (as mentioned in this posts) is that now they are farming low level quests and pushing my char out of being able to kill a quick lock and 1 or 2 shots they kill off targets and farm they area for hrs. Its easrier for corps to do this th an make they items for sale (cost basis). meanwhile unable to complete quests and searching arounf fo a area r Hr or more maybe I can find a area.
  Bottom line inany MMO when lower levels are farmed it discourages causal players from playing. them game has possibilties. If this is what I face what the since of playing. the game got off to a good start even for me but there are some seriuos problems comming to life.
  Production based game shouldn't promote farming , Items should be bought through the exchange and not rewared through drops at this rate. Because farming kills is more profitable than  than making the suppy side (production ) for a milatray based char's

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Rodo wrote:

Best thing I have herd is they do need to warn you when creating a char that would solve some problems around this. But also is what i have found out now is that i am running into (as mentioned in this posts) is that now they are farming low level quests and pushing my char out of being able to kill a quick lock and 1 or 2 shots they kill off targets and farm they area for hrs. Its easrier for corps to do this th an make they items for sale (cost basis). meanwhile unable to complete quests and searching arounf fo a area r Hr or more maybe I can find a area.
  Bottom line inany MMO when lower levels are farmed it discourages causal players from playing. them game has possibilties. If this is what I face what the since of playing. the game got off to a good start even for me but there are some seriuos problems comming to life.
  Production based game shouldn't promote farming , Items should be bought through the exchange and not rewared through drops at this rate. Because farming kills is more profitable than  than making the suppy side (production ) for a milatray based char's

while i do agree, it's a pain when a low lvl spot is heavily camped by super bots tongue the matter at hand (the  cost for deleting a char) it's a great mechanic and it's well documented. As well as, this is not wow, people that don't want to think or read while they play.. don't bother.

(not saying ur one of those)

also, the EP mechanic is VERY VERY friendly towards casual players, as they care the same EP as any other person whether they play once a week or 26 hours a day tongue, sure we might have less cash then the big dogs, but that is not so so important where skill and proper EP placement (which we gain at the same time) is much more crucial then a t2/vs standard module).

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

So much is wrong with this...

It sets a poor precedent when the Devs decide to patch a broken and exploited mechanic (light bot farming) with EP penalties for well meaning players... then creates a special 3 day window in order to let the worst exploiters slip out the back door.

It fixes the broken mechanic while letting the exploiters off the hook and in the end effectively punishes new players who in their over eagerness to jump in to a new and exciting MMO don't spend several hours reading the documentation, forums and help files before getting started.  Seriously who here actually reads the instruction manual, cover to cover, before playing with their new toy?  The toy should be made well enough that it doesn't break under reasonably predictable usage patterns.

For a new toon, the ones making these mistakes, those 2800 EP are HUGE.  I'm all for accountability in gaming, but severely punishing inexperience while letting exploiters off the hook is wrong.  Fixing individual exploits by tweaking functional and core mechanics is wrong.  Finally, Dev Zoom pointing out that a character registered on 12/7 should have known better because it was announced in last months patch notes and discussed via in game mail and on a forum that has not been bumped since 12/1 is wrong.

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Bullis wrote:
Jelan wrote:
Moran wrote:

because its a stupid penalty it effectively stops you from deleting characters ever

Havent you gone yet drama queen, jeebus.

@OP, i think the devs should offer some sort of wildcard option, i.e. frack i deleted a character, can i get it re-instated EXACTLY as it was when i deleted it.

There is no messing up a character at creation unless you went politics tongue  You can train any skill my old EvE titan pilot is an almost maxed out miner/builder, guess what i respecc'd him.  Live with your choices, man up and accept consequence of actions

did someone from m2s just call me a drama queen? lol

Nice ad hominem. And are you Moran?

34 (edited by Thadious 2010-12-14 21:42:20)

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Mesiyah wrote:

what i dont understand, is why are ppl complaining about the ep penalty, when it was announced SOMETIME before it was enforced ?

you knew the penalty would occur, so you had ample time to delete your 'test' chrs withou incurring any penalty...

strange...some ppl will never be happy.

<read the news>

~M~


They are probably complaining because they JUST BOUGHT THE GAME and had no idea of the arcane beta balancing that was going on behind the scenes, and therefore did not what what specific voluminous obscure piece of online text would tell them that they were not allowed to play with the character creator, which is such an absurd idea for a new game, that it would never cross a sane persons mind as an outside possibility.

Shall I go on?

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Let me put this another way...

If you do not have an understanding of the game far beyond what you can be expected to gain from reading about it, a level that can only be gained through playing it, to make a character even REMOTELY viable, then you have to play the game before you can make a character that is viable.

Duh.

Now, for all of the non beta players they are trying to attract, they are charging them MONEY, real world, up front, and then not allowing them to learn the system EVEN THOUGH WE PAID, instead saying "Oh well, you should have read the patch notes with perfect understanding even though you have never played, which is impossible, and since you didn't, after you figure it out, you can pay us CASH again to create a workable account."

That is one hell of a way to alienate a new player base.  An please save your self the trouble and don't call me a "wow baby", that isn't even close.

I even have the collectors edition box of mortal online sitting on my wall.


I have NEVER seen such an absurd system as permanently and severely handicapping new paying players from day one for not understanding perfectly a system they have never used before, and therefore, even if read about, can not be expected to intimately know.

Seriously.

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Okay.

A new player buys an account, creates his first character. Nothing is charged (beyond the subscription fee obviously).

Let's say he does the tutorials, maybe even gets the light bot at the end. But he somehow figures this character doesn't fit his playstyle, so logs out and creates a second character. Still nothing is charged.

Maybe he does the tutorial missions again, maybe not. He probably did this character because he doesn't like lasers and wants to go missiles, or maybe wants an industrialist. All viable options.

But somehow he doesn't like this character either.

So he goes on to create a third character, maybe expecting that some miracle will happen, maybe thinking he missed an iwin button on the way, I don't know. Still nothing is charged.

He has now 3 characters, all fully capable to learn and do everything in the game.

Please, can someone explain me why a new player needs a fourth, new character to learn how the game works? What am I missing?

37 (edited by Crynth 2010-12-14 22:52:56)

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Dev Zoom, it's quite a simple answer really.

Some people don't like being stuck with dead characters, which they'll have to look at every time they log in, but they never plan to use again. I know it bothered me having an alt character until I deleted it.

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Thadious wrote:

Let me put this another way...

If you do not have an understanding of the game far beyond what you can be expected to gain from reading about it, a level that can only be gained through playing it, to make a character even REMOTELY viable, then you have to play the game before you can make a character that is viable.

Duh.

Now, for all of the non beta players they are trying to attract, they are charging them MONEY, real world, up front, and then not allowing them to learn the system EVEN THOUGH WE PAID, instead saying "Oh well, you should have read the patch notes with perfect understanding even though you have never played, which is impossible, and since you didn't, after you figure it out, you can pay us CASH again to create a workable account."

That is one hell of a way to alienate a new player base.  An please save your self the trouble and don't call me a "wow baby", that isn't even close.

I even have the collectors edition box of mortal online sitting on my wall.


I have NEVER seen such an absurd system as permanently and severely handicapping new paying players from day one for not understanding perfectly a system they have never used before, and therefore, even if read about, can not be expected to intimately know.

Seriously.

I think what you are missing is that it is kind of hard determining what play style you want to pursue if you spend no EP what so ever, not even on extra assignment slots.

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Thadious wrote:

I think what you are missing is that it is kind of hard determining what play style you want to pursue if you spend no EP what so ever, not even on extra assignment slots.

But if you do spend considerable EP on a character to see how it goes, then wouldn't be 2 days of EP your least concern? We're talking about EP respec then which is a wholly other topic.

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

DEV Zoom wrote:
Thadious wrote:

I think what you are missing is that it is kind of hard determining what play style you want to pursue if you spend no EP what so ever, not even on extra assignment slots.

But if you do spend considerable EP on a character to see how it goes, then wouldn't be 2 days of EP your least concern? We're talking about EP respec then which is a wholly other topic.


Are you telling me that if I delete my first character I get ALL the EP back the first time?

I was told I didn't.

41 (edited by Arga 2010-12-14 23:27:32)

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

No you don't get it back.

Zoom is referencing another thread about respec'ing.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … by-chance/

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … nt-option/

This thread is about the penalty for deleting alts.

Edit: added thread link

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Thadious wrote:

Are you telling me that if I delete my first character I get ALL the EP back the first time?

I was told I didn't.

No, I'm just saying that the EP cost of character deletion and the redistribution of EP are two different topics and you shouldn't mix those two together.

The character deletion EP cost was mainly created against exploiters, troll alts and to generally make characters themselves a little bit more precious than a disposable shell. But this shouldn't really affect new players who play the game normally.

Regarding the other topic, we are internally discussing options on EP redistribution/respec and it also has more than one topic on the forums.

(thanks for the links Arga)

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Maybe if you're allowed to delete 1 character at no charge, second at 1440, and double it for each successive delete. That will greatly limit alt recycling, even in a year when 2880 EP doesn't mean much to an advanced player, while still giving new characters the chance to delete 1 alt, with clear warnings that deleting the next one will come with X EP penalty.

44 (edited by Ixath 2010-12-14 23:41:32)

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Have a 2 week deletion timer on a character. You hit delete, it takes 2 weeks from the point you hit the button until it's gone. At any time, you can cancel the delete (click and type the chars name or something). This process does not penalize EP.

Or, you can "delete now" and lose the 2440 EP.

This will combat the exploiting nature of it and will allow people who REALLY want to delete a character and not lose EP a way to do it. And if somebody -HAS- to have that free spot immediately, they can do it with the current penalty.

shrug?

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

stop whining. you lose EP if you delete characters. the mechanic is there to allow you to play and test without any loss. Belt up and use it or gtfo. If you're too dumb for that you don't belong functioning in society.

Also, Argo, you're far too intelligent to waste your time on these people. Your general nature to help is wasted on them, as they clearly just want to whine about being stupid, and have the devs turn on easy mode for them.

Contact me in game via e-mail or PM for -CS- recruitment information.

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

There are still four weapon types and one character will specialize in 1-2 in the beginning. If a player wants to experience all four types of weapons he either has to spend EP, which won't ever get him into a mech for each race's specialization at the starting EP, or make four characters.

So, now we have 4 characters to try all the weapons out. Going to have to delete one thats 2,880 EP.

What if the person didn't want to specialize in combat after trying all four weapon specialties. Well, he's going to have delete a second character now. 5,760 EP lost now. The guy finally settles on industry and research.

Sadly, he is 5.7k EP down the drain already for not knowing what he wanted to do with his character and trying to play test each weapon set.

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Keep in mind that EP is account based. Why spend EP on another character just to try out new equipment, why not just spend them simply on your main?

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

DEV Zoom wrote:

Keep in mind that EP is account based. Why spend EP on another character just to try out new equipment, why not just spend them simply on your main?

/this

[img]http://www.cryptostudios.com/PO/Sigs/BC.jpg[/img]

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

We're talking about new players. There WILL be people who think it would be better to start a new character instead of just advancing their current one because they might think there would be noticeable differences.

Re: 2880 ep for deleation

Well we simply have to explain them how the game works then smile