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EVE self destruct is for "denying the kill" from your attackers, but you cant destroy your cargo, you can only eject them and even that is on timer.
** to the previous post: yeah, I think in beta islands all containers should be lootable by anyone, if you loot one which is not yours you get flagged for pvp. (ninja looters FTW)
Fit cargo scanner and when you see that he destroyed his stuff just let it go
To bad that item does not exist.
Shmekla wrote:Fit cargo scanner and when you see that he destroyed his stuff just let it go
To bad that item does not exist.
Look under Equipment -> Electronic Equipment -> Cargo Scanners
Fit cargo scanner and when you see that he destroyed his stuff just let it go
Exactly. In my opinion people need to Adapt or GTFO. Instead of blowing them up, ransom them for NIC. If they refuse to pay, then blow them up.
Ransom has nothing to do with this.. and it's not always an option.
the change would.:
make pvp more rewarding
more realistic (yes it has happened that ships dropped thier cargo into the water just to deny the pirates from the loot BUT it takes time.)
The only reason ppl want to be able to destroy the loot instantaneously is because of a last act of spite towards the winner.. that's poor..
There are ways to avoid to be looted: the easiest one is to not leave the alpha island, but if you do you must accept the risk.
For me btw this is not a big thing, I've played EVE but never really got into pvp. I still think this change would make the game better (and there is a good reason why every mmo with similar ruleset implemented something like this)
Shmekla wrote:Fit cargo scanner and when you see that he destroyed his stuff just let it go
Exactly. In my opinion people need to Adapt or GTFO. Instead of blowing them up, ransom them for NIC. If they refuse to pay, then blow them up.
Yeah, give them more time to delete their ***. This is the best idea yet.
You could not insta-destroy your cargo in EVE.
You could only destroy things in station, and that mechanic really should be the same in this game.
You could self destruct your ship, which had a timer, but even then, your cargo was still up for possible drop. I saw many a cap pilots self destruct simply for Killmail denial.I think this thread needs more real world analogies to justify "right-click, destroy" magic.
Maybe try some WWII analogies....
he is one for yah
now days when somone robs a armoured van full of money they get covered in ink when they open / pick up the bag and all the notes are un usable and they can still be arrested and tried for armed robery and locked up for 10 years
Here's the thing, the Dev has already said it is not an exploit, continuing to call it an exploit and saying Dev's just don't get it is not going to win them over to make the change; and threatening to leave the game has never been a good arguement.
I'm not sure how responsive the Dev's are since I was not in the Beta, so for me this is the start of a long relationship, and I think if we can present reasonable arguements (for both sides) that the game will be better in the long run.
Likely this thread has gone on too long already to be useful, but I'll try one more post.
The transport driver loses the load either way, so the specific issue is that the driver can deny the pirate a tangible reward by deleting the load.
If the solution is to remove the ability to delete items from cargo, I'll support that because just giving the driver the ability to rage-deny the pirate doesn't really promote more players to get out there and PVP; which even though I don't, I understand that it is the driving force behind the game.
But, the ability has to be removed, not just modified to prevent a case specific action. Removing the ability to delete cargo items isn't going to break the game, it will however make other aspects of the game more difficult to play, such as farming.
I believe that giving the players more options is always a good thing, taking the delete function away removes an option, and reduces the need for player interaction. If all the combat player wants to do is blow stuff up and get loot there are NPC's for that.
But, as I said if combat pilots are willing to give up the ability to delete items too, than I'll support that.
Please explain why the ability to delete cargo HAS to be removed instead of altered.
In eve online people are known to self destruct their ships. Mind you it does have a 30 second timer.
120 second timer on self destruct. And that only destroys the ship, not the cargo. As stated the only reason someone would do that is to deny the attacker the kill stats. And trust me, RARELY 120 seconds will expire before the pilot dies to PvP....
I would like another devs response to this thread. If word of mouth was to circulate that players can "instantly delete their cargo" in this game, it would be horrible press for pvp'ers that are currently interested....because no other open pvp ruleset on the market supports such a lame and exploitable tactic....
Please explain why the ability to delete cargo HAS to be removed instead of altered.
I already explained that in previous posts and in the above one.
Altering the delete function only benefits the pirates and takes an ability away from the driver; granted its an F'U ability but its there and the pirates are asking for the change.
It certainly doesn't have to fully removed and I welcome a rebuttal focused on that.
DEV Zoom wrote:Vorgrim:apart from the fact that real life references are always flawed since this is a game, can you tell me what exactly are you risking here if you kill a defenseless sequer? (Being in a PvP area doesn't count, it is not specific to this case).
Ofc its specific to this case. I'm out there on my own risking my robot, mods and ammo for the opportunity to get something better from reckless corps with 140+ agents on their teams, full scale production at tier 3 facilities and alliances.
Don't you think I deserve a sequer load of loot if they don't protect it adequately?
Vorgrim, you couldn't even carry a sequer load of loot if you killed a sequer.. because, like, you're not a sequer.
but its there and the pirates are asking for the change.
All PvP'ers are asking for the change, not just pirates. Your suppose to have a risk versus reward system regardless, if you PvP for sport or what have you. This is not that system with such an exploitable tactic.....it's all risk. 
Arga wrote:but its there and the pirates are asking for the change.
All PvP'ers are asking for the change, not just pirates. Your suppose to have a risk versus reward system regardless, if you PvP for sport or what have you. This is not that system with such an exploitable tactic.....it's all risk.
While I don't wholly agree with that reasoning, I do agree that remove the ability to delete would encourage more PVP which would be good for the game.
I say pirates because part of the combat community would be OK with just denying the load, I'm sure they would support removing the delete feature but its the 'pirates' that are out mostly for the loot.
All I'm saying is that if deleting cargo is removed, it should be removed not just modifed.
Note: This isn't part of my arguement, I just disagree with the risk reward assement, because you don't have to engage a seq, so your not really taking any risk. I know, your in beta and you want a reward for catching someone stupid enough to transport without adequat cover, which is why I support removing the delete but not the reason, because it is dangerous getting to and being in Beta... and its only going to get more dangerous as the game matures.
*sigh*
You guys need to stop thinking this is some kind of "DEV Simon says" game. When I'm discussing things with you on the forums, think of me like just another player trying to make the game better.
Being a DEV doesn't mean at all that what I say is the ultimate truth and you all need to shut up. So please stop with that ooh how can a dev say this, he doesn't understand this game at all! *ragequit* (I think this is one of the reasons the other devs are not that active on the forums).
I am merely trying to think globally, and not just silently nod with acceptance on the first post of the loudest pvp'ers while the majority of the playerbase doesn't even look here.
Back on topic, I still think there is no "right" in this issue that would be fair for everyone. A middleground, perhaps.
*sigh*
You guys need to stop thinking this is some kind of "DEV Simon says" game. When I'm discussing things with you on the forums, think of me like just another player trying to make the game better.
Being a DEV doesn't mean at all that what I say is the ultimate truth and you all need to shut up. So please stop with that ooh how can a dev say this, he doesn't understand this game at all! *ragequit* (I think this is one of the reasons the other devs are not that active on the forums).
I am merely trying to think globally, and not just silently nod with acceptance on the first post of the loudest pvp'ers while the majority of the playerbase doesn't even look here.Back on topic, I still think there is no "right" in this issue that would be fair for everyone. A middleground, perhaps.
*gasp* Your a regular person to Zoom? JOKING BTW lol.
Anyway, Vorgrim your pretty much ranting about how you don't want the sequer driver to be able to keep you from just raping and leaving him for dead while you walk away with his items.
His delete button is just like your spacebar, imo
Your not referencing anything else except sequers, all I'm hearing is the seagulls from finding nemo, minemine mine mine mine mine..
Edit: And it's not SIMON says, Its Zoom says 
Back on topic, I still think there is no "right" in this issue that would be fair for everyone. A middleground, perhaps.
While we're on the subject, it's good for the players to see devs regularly reading and responding to things on the forums. You're doing a great job, please keep it up.
On topic, people should not be able to delete all their cargo very quickly if they know they are going to be killed in pvp, because it isn't realistic.
And this is one of those times where I think going for the more realistic option enhances the gameplay for everyone.
I liked Neoxx's suggestion best. You can delete things instantly, but they are in a "recycle bin" for a certain amount of time. If the player is killed before that time is up, then those deleted items are still included in the drop chance.
One of the main draws of this game is player looting in pvp...if you start allow players to escape some of the consequences of pvp (e.g. deleting their stuff before they die) you compromise that feature.
Zoom, I have been playing these onliners for about 12 years. Most of the time, I feel like nothing more than a mindless lab rat consumer with no access/social venues to any of the people in charge of creating the virtual worlds.
You and your team are by far some of the best I have run into in that matter. Regardless of the outcome on this topic - keep posting, keep showing yourselves in game, giving your opinions, as a player and as a dev. You are the first among your kind to even do that, and it REALLY shines. Pioneers.
-Big C
PvPers want to be able to PvP and sustain themselves by PvP. Hence the desire to have loot not be destroyable. If a PvP has to spend significant portions of his or her time engaging in the PvE aspect of the game they may lose interest and the game suffers.
So long as the means exist to allow the PvP folks to thrive deleting cargo will not be an issue.
This topic is interesting.
I see no reason why someone shouldn't be able to destroy their cargo or their mech for that matter. Denying the enemy the spoils of war is a legitimate tactic.
In eve online people are known to self destruct their ships. Mind you it does have a 30 second timer.
I bet you're one of those guys who didnt get around much in Low-sec in Eve did you?
Also mind you, a lot can happen in those 30 seconds including melting the guy attempting to self destruct and you get to loot his ship anyway, here there is no such system.
Denying your enemy their spoils of war, sure you can, in theory, set fire to everything inside your ship...blow it up and yet something is still usually intact. If you dont like people looting your corpse and think the reward of pvp is just being able to kill people, go back to WoW where you belong. Otherwise, in a "Sandbox" defined MMO, I should be able to loot the corpse of people I kill whether everything they had drops or not, doesnt matter, but I should have the opportunity to.
I agree with some of the opinions on this thread regarding the devs either address this or let me know they'll keep it unchanged so I can unsub.
Oh, and before I forget, thank you for adding more useless banter to this discussion Decon, next?
Decon wrote:This topic is interesting.
I see no reason why someone shouldn't be able to destroy their cargo or their mech for that matter. Denying the enemy the spoils of war is a legitimate tactic.
In eve online people are known to self destruct their ships. Mind you it does have a 30 second timer.
I bet you're one of those guys who didnt get around much in Low-sec in Eve did you?
Also mind you, a lot can happen in those 30 seconds including melting the guy attempting to self destruct and you get to loot his ship anyway, here there is no such system.
Denying your enemy their spoils of war, sure you can, in theory, set fire to everything inside your ship...blow it up and yet something is still usually intact. If you dont like people looting your corpse and think the reward of pvp is just being able to kill people, go back to WoW where you belong. Otherwise, in a "Sandbox" defined MMO, I should be able to loot the corpse of people I kill whether everything they had drops or not, doesnt matter, but I should have the opportunity to.
I agree with some of the opinions on this thread regarding the devs either address this or let me know they'll keep it unchanged so I can unsub.
Oh, and before I forget, thank you for adding more useless banter to this discussion Decon, next?
Well doesn't it follow in a "Sandbox" I should be able to destroy things I own?
Its not just sequers. You notice whenever you blow someone up his chums will run to the wreck and try to loot before you?
If they aren't running away, because they know they can't, but are just sat there taking laser to the face, what do you think they are doing? They are deleting the guy's mods and ammo so you can't have them.
I'm not just preying on defensless sequers, but not having the means to defend yourself is not a valid reason why I can't steal your loot. If you are on beta islands, its fair game. Or rather it should be.
I'm not angry, I'm just dissapointed that anyone could think anything else is reasonable. I will never delete loot to deprive my opponent their spoils, whether its 1v1 or 1v100.
Its not just sequers. You notice whenever you blow someone up his chums will run to the wreck and try to loot before you?
If they aren't running away, because they know they can't, but are just sat there taking laser to the face, what do you think they are doing? They are deleting the guy's mods and ammo so you can't have them.
I'm not just preying on defensless sequers, but not having the means to defend yourself is not a valid reason why I can't steal your loot. If you are on beta islands, its fair game. Or rather it should be.
I'm not angry, I'm just dissapointed that anyone could think anything else is reasonable. I will never delete loot to deprive my opponent their spoils, whether its 1v1 or 1v100.
but 1 v 1000?
but 1 v 1000?
I would crash if 1000 bots were on my screen. Probably before I even saw them load, so wouldn't have a chance to, even if I were so inclined
Hmmm, after reading more about this debated issue of whether or not you should be able to right-click delete all your cargo, I'm gonna have to change my position to NO you should not be able to instantly delete all your cargo.
Reminiscing back to my UO days one of the greatest joys was killing someone and completely looting their corpse to find some goodies.
I don't play often enough to really care either way, but this is more of implementation problem really (possible dupe bug here if not programmed right), because if you were to take an unbiased stance on this issue like I have, you will see that the PVPers and Pirates have a point here.
So NO it is not an exploit, but YES people should not be allowed to insta delete cargo in a PVP zone, or if they are flagged for PVP.
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