Topic: Turret's Requiring Ammo

This needs to happen, yes, I realize people will hate me on this, however, it just makes sense. They already have the "reload" value on the turret itself.  As it stands now were getting "free" stuff, I don't think that should be the case, also this might help hold back the turret spam that is currently happening on ALL islands.  Yes, including ours ect. ect.

The value of what they can hold should be a good number of charges, and they should be the next step up from medium ammo's, Large.

Ammo should not use Brio, just carry it over from the medium ammo.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

I agree completely, infinite ammunition on turrets is daft. I would suggest a half way position between your suggestion and current mechanics, however.

A new arsenal building with as many out going connections as current boosters and a large storage capacity. A single building from which to reload a number of turrets.

New type of ammo that uses colixum maybe?

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Good idea ludlow.

+1

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Not a terrible Idea, I can honestly say I didn't think of that one.  It would cut down on incoming slots for turrets, thus reducing range.

I do hate the colixum with ammo idea big_smile

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
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Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Just one note - there should be a way to load ammo automatically to ALL turrets at the same time. Like, special ammo folder in terminal or sorta.

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Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

I'm starting to like this, "having a thingy that is a building that you put ammo into and it shoots it out to the other thingys" < by Ludlow Bursar

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

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Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Merkle wrote:

. It would cut down on incoming slots for turrets, thus reducing range.

If it were ever introduced an extra incoming connection could always be added to turrets if it was felt that balance was effected to badly.

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

+1 if the turrets automatically pull ammo from terminal or some sort of ammunition storage structure.

9 (edited by Merkle 2013-01-15 15:16:13)

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

I would heavily Disagree with having it pull from the terminal.  Having a structure on the field would make more sense, and I really do not want it to be too terrible easy either.

Also regarding it taking yet another slot, incoming that is, I could argue that they already have too many but that is a differing topic.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

oh my days I'm agreeing with merkle again

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Why, no probs with special structure, but in the name of Nia, no put-in-each-turret mechanics.

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R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
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12 (edited by Goffer 2013-01-16 11:29:10)

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

-1

When the turrets were introduced, it was announced, that these turrets don't need ammo with purpose, and later there will be turrets that use some kind of ammo.

The mechanic of ammo usage of turrets is that prone to abuse as long as you get no notice if your turrets log enemy or shoot enemy, that it would be ridicolous easy to empty the ammo of all turrets prior to attack of towers and than kill the turrets even from shortrange as it has no more ammo.

no big deal bringing heavy shielded bot in turret range and support from distance with accu unless turret stops firing than advance to next turret.

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Goffer your basing your perceptions off of not wanting to lose your base.  (Our base would have the same problem's)


This is just logical.  Why should we get something that is free?  I would assume it would be just like the EW turrets that take days to run out of energy.  Now I wouldn't think it should take "days" but it would be a good amount of ammo.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Now that turrets only shoot with direct los I see no problem.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

15 (edited by Lobo 2013-01-16 12:11:25)

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Goffer wrote:

-1

Said some qq about heavy mech sheiled and guns running out of ammo

Didn't the Devs say when the test server was up that bases should not beable to defend themselves for the entire day. I believe it was something like bases will still need players to defend it from a true seige.

Introduce ammo clips for turrets allow for loading direct or for a tower like (Ammo Bunker) to replace clips to turrets. Clips will have 100 rounds of ammo and each turret can hold 10 clips ammo Bunkers can only hold ammo clips but have a huge storage area 1000 or 5000 clips, but only one type of clip can go in to a bunker tho. Meaning if you load EM clips it can only feed EM guns ect.

Introduce the clips 2 weeks before Ammo needs to be loaded so that all can load turrets prior to patch making them require ammo.

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Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

ok here some facts:

a heavy mech can easy hold 10k ammo. a turret is a structure that has no other purpose then shooting and it is not ment to walk around. taking this in consideration a turret should have a way higher ammo stash then any bot that walks around the field.

so lets say with reason a turret can hold 10x ammo a bot can (even factor 100 would be still ok for a statonary building but lets stick with factor 10). that would be 100k ammo.
taking a 5sec rof at avarage and 2 guns (what turrets usualy have):
100.000 x 5s = 500.000s totl operation time with one gun
500.000s / 60 / 60 / 2 = 69,44h = 2,89d of continuis firering. (/60 mins; /60 h; 2 guns)

well not much fun waiting for the turret to run out of ammo.


ok lets look at it from another side:
structures are already expensive. yes turrets are realtive cheep but the costs are in the supporting structures. all that costs a hell lot money or resources.
so why have to bind hundret of thouthands of ammunition just that the turrets have something to feed when the time arises. some turrets have falloff and as mentioned above players will take advantage of that. just as some ppl kill observer by standing at max range and wait till the observer runs out of cap while doing crap dmg because it is at the last edge of his falloff.

first thing: if players can abuse it then its a bad idea.
second thing: will it realy bring another gameplay and will it make the game better, or will it just increase the grind and will be even more work for no real benefit in the end. later will be the case as far as my opinion goes.

using a supply building will even make a already complex structure system more complex and ppl are already complaining about the network comlexity and that tey loose the overfew of their network.
also if the turrets have a basic ammo stash (just as shown above) then some pll may skip the ammo building and use the extra connection for even more dps/range/whatever.


one more thought:
reactors are producing energy out of thin air. whel then turrets can produce ammo on their own ^^...


in generel the idea of turrets usesing ammo sounds logical. but there are other logical things as well. just like the ammo stash i pointed out above. in general this will bring no new gameplay to the game. yes i like complex thinks but this is just adding more complexity to no result. and with that it is a bad idea.

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Merkle I'm not talking about a reasonable group of HM sieging a base. They have no need to wait till ammo is gone. I'm talking about single player in tripple log getting in base without any harm until they actually alarm defender.

And I give you a Kain for free if this was not your original intention to be able with light ewar/ewar mech to break into bases/sneak behind enemy turrets where you else would need to alarm defender.

18 (edited by Xadhoom 2013-01-16 21:19:31)

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Jasdemi wrote:

+1 if the turrets automatically pull ammo from terminal or some sort of ammunition storage structure.


very bad idea.

No automatic reload, but the colony management should show the ammo level on turrets. but you must carry the ammo to them and put it in.

I also like the idea of being able to use faction ammo, gives us something else to spend tokens on other than beacons

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Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

If using falloff is a exploit, then just ban me now.

My original intent is to make the game a bit more logical.  I don't like to get "free" things, sure its going to be work, and sure people will complain about it. However, as it stands right now, there is not a single force on the sever that can break your base, our base, or nearly any other base out there.  We have tried, you have tried, both sides have failed.  This is BESIDES THE POINT.

I'm failing to see how using falloff to your advantage is a abuse?  Am I not abusing terraform'ing when I attempt to close people in walls?  Am I not abusing teleports when I just out when all is lost?

Stepping back a bit here, I'm not asking for a quick way to kill bases, I'm asking for a logical way for turrets to get ammo, and for that ammo to be a good supply, so that a few guys cant run it out in a matter of minutes.
(As in EW turrets it takes DAYS to run them dry from energy if setup right, and then even when out of energy they still shoot every 30 sec Regardless of energy levels, as do guns.)

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

merkle i undestand your point and my post was not ment offensivly.

the point is: ammo in turrets will bring no change in that.

the problem lies somewere different. and that is as you have mentioned yourself: its mainly the terraforming.
sky high walls with turrets behind it is a problem.
i have seen this problem for a long time. the only problem is that it will be not that easy to fix for the devs and surely not without a complete terraforming reset on gamma. (what will piss off even more ppl.)

nethertheless i think big changes in the gamma mechanics are nessessary, and most of us should konw that basicly since it it out. its just not that easy to fix and more important this game has more pressing issues atm. we talk about pve, early game content and steam release.
thats basicly the reason why my pack of suggestions that gamma needs has been sitting around for a while. now is simple not the time for it and even for us veterans it will be more important to get more player in this game, and then this non trivial problem has to be solved.

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

-1.  It's hard enough to maintain and manage an actual base as is not to mention the insane NIC sink it is.  By maintain, I systematically check my energy network daily and continually improve with extra boosters/repair nodes etc... and keep those damn plant population in order.

@zortarg I agree.

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Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

*edit: No need to take it personal. - DEV Zoom

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Zortarg, its all a question of balance. Your numbers are interesting but the ammo capacity before reload is required and the reserve stash can be set to any number that gives the correct balance.

As Merkle pointed out:

Merkle wrote:

there is not a single force on the sever [sic] that can break your base, our base, or nearly any other base out there.  We have tried, you have tried, both sides have failed

What we must be careful of is tweaking the balance to current force sizes. We have all learned a lot about gamma offence in the last six months and I'm sure that with that knowledge the size of force that attacked Novaya Trava last July would do a far better job now than it did on that occasion. Equally, however, we have also learned a lot about gamma defence so bases are more secure.

I have a feeling that it wouldn't take a drastic increase in force sizes to have us back where we were last year when all the hours and NIC sunk into gamma seemed to go up in smoke far too easily.

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

If these turrets get ammo.

I am going to abuse it.

Re: Turret's Requiring Ammo

Ludlow stop making so much sense!

Your right, I don't want the balancing to swing over the other way and make it too easy to kill bases.  However, I don't see how having turrets require ammo would make too much of a ripple in the defensive game.

The ammo amounts were talking about (Days to run out) and the amounts of damage turrets already do should be balance enough to justify ammo usage.

Just to re-clarify, I don't want to make it easier to kill bases, I fail to see how having ammo in turrets would make a major nu-balancing of the gamma bases.

Dealing with the falloff issue.  Are we really seeing using falloff as a abuse tactic?  All of the bots have falloff, but for missiles, why are we not crying wolf for that too?

Falloff isn't a issue.  Its something people have to deal with, and Yes, you will have to fight outside of your base at some point.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13