1 (edited by Annihilator 2013-01-15 20:25:15)

Topic: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Hello fellow Perpetuum fans and DEVs.

Since the argument, that "the DEVs are forcing us to buy multiple accounts per player" comes up on regular basis,
i wanted to start a topic about the oppositte.

Tell me what YOU think about what incentives do exist, in Perpetuum, to play with only one account.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

That depends. Will you play solo, or join corp, or create youw own, alone or with friends? First case - PvE mostly. Until PvE 2.0 - getting bored fast enough. Second - good way, why not. Third - very hard. Fourth - just hard.

Have a productive day, runner!
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Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

I don't think Devs will answer your rhetorical question.

If you design a MMO concentrating heavily  on the multiplier aspect , no wonder 2 or more accounts would always be better than one, specially since experience is gained passively. Obviously 1 account is cheaper, and if your only reason to use more accounts is to grind NIC e.g buy bots/items for pvp lose them, rinse and repeat, you can always buy a few ICE.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Celebro wrote:

I don't think Devs will answer your rhetorical question.

If you design a MMO concentrating heavily  on the multiplier aspect , no wonder 2 or more accounts would always be better than one, specially since experience is gained passively. Obviously 1 account is cheaper, and if your only reason to use more accounts is to grind NIC e.g buy bots/items for pvp lose them, rinse and repeat, you can always buy a few ICE.

since perpetuum is my first mmo i have ever played where i need more then one ACCOUNT to archieve anything, its not a rhetorical question.

the only game that had a similar advantage of having more accounts was ogame... a f2p browser game i have played before perpetuum - but there it was a bannable violation of the rules.

currently im playing Firefall -> a game heavily concentrating on multiplayer... i want to see someone doing advanced meld thumping with more then one account per player...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

The game 'requires' you to multi-box because you can derive a large benefit from activities that require only occasional attention.

If being a follow-bot required some sort of mental activity, it wouldn't be nearly as popular to have them on 2nd boxes.

For instance in EQ2 crafting requires you to click things and react to 'problems' to produce each item. Here you just put the CT in and let it run for days, and the product is just as good and almost as much as someone who pays attention to every little detail.

Combat follow bots are even worse, simple click-bots that take zero interactivity once running.

Of course, the enemy can field dedicated EW mechs to disrupt your follow-bots, requiring you to pay more attention, thus reducing their effectiveness. That's only effective in large group combat, which is a rarity.

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Xira actually summed it up quite nicely.

tl;dr version: Perpetuum isn't a twitch-based game, hence people multiaccount because they can, not because we advocate it.

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

One account? Why not, if we get 500k EP for free? Or the player base explodes to what it was in 2010.

GERMAN ROBOTECH INDUSTRIES
| high tech engineering since 2010 | Website

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

I think the current spark system helps out quite a bit with one account players.  I know players with just one account that are having fun.

Also, I think there should be at least a 15 minute timer for sparking if you were recently pvp flagged.  I  dont recall who brought that up to me, but yeah random thoughts.

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

DEV Zoom wrote:

Xira actually summed it up quite nicely.

tl;dr version: Perpetuum isn't a twitch-based game, hence people multiaccount because they can, not because we advocate it.

If i recall there was a thread about this to do with ISO BOXER which in part has wrecked your game and yes you did advocate using it is ok, so the obvious happens those desperate to make a name for themselves or to win will abuse this as much as they can, anyway i believe that accounts should be limited in number

10 (edited by Merkle 2013-01-16 07:05:51)

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Have you even used it hermit?

B.c Trust me, its not everything that you think, most of it is hype, and mostly unfounded.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

11 (edited by Annihilator 2013-01-16 13:06:32)

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Isboxer works fine in PVE as far as i know from someone who was using it.

Mining and grinding npcs with 10 accounts works fine.

PvP is different - not because the DEVs implemented measures against it, or not because PvP demands it -
- simply because of the usual lag/server issues and desyncs make it almost impossible to use there roll

Zoom - you say you dont advocate multiboxing -> but you kinda force overspecialsation onto any new player.
It already starts with account and character creation. There is no way someone new to the game can easily TRY out some of the specialisatons without creating multiple trial accounts.
you give them 3 agent slots, but a shared EP pool, but not shared extensions/assets.

advancing in one faction aka weapon-class takes already from 6 month to 2 years to advance into. If you want to casually switch to production, mining or simply from turret to missiles, you extend the progression time even more.
Don't tell me that isn't "advocating" multi accounting. The argument that you dont want to habe omnipotent, jack-of all trades-agents is stupid when you think about how your robot fitting system works.

BUT - the topic theme was: what in this games does the oppositte - make me want to play with ONE account, except the fact that two accounts makes it already more expensive then any other monthly sub game that allows me to have multiple independant characters on the same server.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Interference

13 (edited by Lobo 2013-01-16 14:38:28)

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Inda does it all on one account
I want to be like Inda

But I love all 5 of my accounts!

Anni wrote:

Zoom - you say you dont advocate multiboxing -> but you kinda force overspecialsation onto any new player.
It already starts with account and character creation. There is no way someone new to the game can easily TRY out some of the specialisatons without creating multiple trial accounts.
you give them 3 agent slots, but a shared EP pool, but not shared extensions/assets.

Dude didn't the last dev blog say they were going to instance the tutorials. With each faction getting some play time possibly h-mech test drive to learn the ropes.
You really need to calm down let the dev's do there thing. stEVE has a huge multiboxing/clienting following from haulers to support (Nexus's) and even tackle or gatecamping alot of multiclient/boxing is done. I even had 3 accounts on stEVE one combat(pirate with negative standings) one miner and one mixed(hi sec runner for pirate) and an alt hauler on one account which also shared EP via learning time.

There really is no problem with multi clienting besides the fact that my follow bot gets stuck and killed and peoples perception of a GF = OMFGWTFBBQ undock the heavys and follows for an assault gang. But thats the game I've been guilty of over reaction to threat as well it happens and you live with it.

Edited Grammer

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Annihilator wrote:

advancing in one faction aka weapon-class takes already from 6 month to 2 years to advance into. If you want to casually switch to production, mining or simply from turret to missiles, you extend the progression time even more.
Don't tell me that isn't "advocating" multi accounting. The argument that you dont want to habe omnipotent, jack-of all trades-agents is stupid when you think about how your robot fitting system works.

Well, I'm sure you know better than us how we'd like to design the game. It's not advocating multiaccounting, it's advocating specialization in a multiplayer environment in order to make players work together. It's true that there is no easy way to try everything before you make your final choices, but as Lobo pointed out, that's what we want to address in the new tutorials. This is also partly the reason why there is currently not much difference between the factions, as you always like to point out.

Annihilator wrote:

BUT - the topic theme was: what in this games does the oppositte - make me want to play with ONE account, except the fact that two accounts makes it already more expensive then any other monthly sub game that allows me to have multiple independant characters on the same server.

We can't make you want to play with one account, since it will be always more favorable for two or more accounts to work together. The sad thing is when this is done by the same player, but we can't really help that due to the no-twitch gameplay nature.

I rather ask back: is there an aspect or a feature of the game that - if given enough time - you can't play out properly with one account?

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

DEV Zoom wrote:

I rather ask back: is there an aspect or a feature of the game that - if given enough time - you can't play out properly with one account?

Nexus support is a pain to fit and is more suited to a follow bot.
Remote Sensor amp also more suited to a follow bot.
Remote Armor repair/ Energy Transfers can be follow botted but is more useful when driven by a skilled solo player.

Given enough time any fighter can spend the minimal EP to drive a sequer and pick up their own farming can.

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

And when you say "more suited to a follow bot", I suppose you mean it's not that fun for a solo player to provide nexus support? Cause I give you that, but this also falls under the no-twitch argument.

Would you rather want us to make the use of support modules complicated?

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

DEV Zoom wrote:

And when you say "more suited to a follow bot", I suppose you mean it's not that fun for a solo player to provide nexus support? Cause I give you that, but this also falls under the no-twitch argument.

Would you rather want us to make the use of support modules complicated?

Ok you got me. But if we were forced to only have one sub, running an Assault nexus on my artimis would force me to run a different fit and I would feel gimped in a fight. To be able to fit any nexus on a bot that your intending to drive in to combat other than a follow bot will limit your combat capabality far more then the nexus will help your specific nexus equiped bot. That being said it would help the rest of the fleet by X%

Why do people run a second account to detect instead of putting a detector on their mech? Because it gimps their fit and makes them an easy target.

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Yes, that's a pretty selfish mindset in an MMO smile But in the end that's why people multiaccount too.

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

The multi boxing argument is not valid for this type of game. You could change it a little but the advantage to multi box is still there, unless you change the game to a more twitch based type, which I would rather the Devs did'nt do.

No don't make supporting roles more complicated. Only thing you could do is remove approach for a moving target, but that would be quite controversial, for so many multi boxers out there, I think it's late for that and would not add anything fun to the single account player.

Though single accounts could be given some love, like separated large bot ore holds for mining/harvesting or separated 'loot holds' for only plasma and damaged items. Some of the mechanics to promote multi-playing just brings more of a hindrance than actually improve the game.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Celebro: from the top of my head, another idea would be to implement minimum effective range for support modules. This would make it hard for follow bots to use them since they always try to hug the target. It would also add some strategy for solo supports, but whether it would be more fun or not is another question.

21 (edited by Celebro 2013-01-16 16:45:26)

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Zoom: that seems like a good idea , I wouldn't know about the fun in that as you said, but it would need to be tested

I think the single most important aspect of a single player would be the ability to specialize (which is fine) and still be rewarded heavily for that. For the rewards to happen there needs to be an active market. Trade needs to flourish for the single account player to trade their goods easily. Nic is at the center of these trades, a specialized miner for example should be able to sell raw materials easily and buy any other stuff that s/he might want, without the need to get another account or sacrifice EP to become good at nothing, in a short time.

What we have now is a jack of all trades 'multi accounter' because either there is little competition and prices are inflated or there is no item available and need to do it all themselves.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

celebro what you describe is a problem of low server population and not a issue of ppl multi accounting.

ppl are jack of all trades because there are too few players that fill the other roles. more plyers will solve that problem, not changeing mechanics just because of low population.

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

celebro what you describe is a problem of low server population and not a issue of ppl multi accounting.

ppl are jack of all trades because there are too few players that fill the other roles. more plyers will solve that problem, not changeing mechanics just because of low population.


Yes I agree somewhat, not much needs to be changed, but how does a specialized solo miner without a hauler account or a even PVE combat character accomplishes this? I'm sure there are a number of options but are they really that fun?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

I think it is two reasons, first means low population, that you tend to work alone (multibox) instead of group play as it cost more time to find someone for cooperative play than to do it yourself. Other point is that at the moment you get bored when only playing support bot in PvE.
I remember times, when it was necessary role and difficult task to support in PvE especially on Beta islands.

Today you would have hard task to find someone doing Beta PvE with you (beside for special assignments). As every long time player fields a HM Mk2 with 1-2 support bots and solos every alpha spot. In the end you are more successfull in reward/time when soling, than doing it in corp.

I really hope that this will change in comming PvE patches. Like having instances that you could not clear without active played supporter.

25 (edited by Shooter Magavin 2013-01-16 18:12:33)

Re: Incentives to play perpetuum with one account only?

I rather ask back: is there an aspect or a feature of the game that - if given enough time - you can't play out properly with one account?

The one aspect of this game that I could not do without multiple accounts, is Production.  I am a major producer, and to actually pull off large scale mass production I NEED multiple accounts.  When I'm burning through 100 million titan in 3 days, not to mention all the other materials.  I have to use a 3 Riveler fleet, just to maintain a steady supply of materials.  And to be quite honest 3 Rivelers is not enough, I could actually use 5-6 rivelers to maintain a steady supply of materials.  And before you ask, no i do not buy materials off of the market, because that would drive my costs up.  Plus logistics is a nightmare when you produce on gamma.

Edit:  That being said, i like the system as is.  i am in no way, shape or form, advocating changing it smile