Topic: Poll: Squad assignments

I'm sure most of you are familiar with the current mechanic for doing assignments cooperatively in squads, which is far from being optimal or useful.

As it stands today, the members of the sqad and the assignment they are doing have a very loose connection. Everyone is doing their own assignment, it's not shared among members. One member's objectives are not completed if another member does them. The only actual mechanic is that you can share the money and relation reward among your squad members if you chose to do so when accepting the assignment.

We'd like to change that, but we have two conflicting ideas on how we should do it. So this is the point where we'd like to hear your opinion: which one would you prefer?

The common goal of both ideas is to make squad members be able to actually work together by counting everyone's actions towards the assignment's objectives. But - and this is why we need to be cautious here - in an open world this has many opportunities for exploiting the system.

Method #1: Squad leader's assignment - unlimited squads

The main idea in this one is that every member of the squad is doing the squad leader's assignment, working towards a common goal.

  • If you are already in a squad and the squad leader accepts an assignment, it will be shared to every other member, and they will see it as if it were their own (with some GUI markers/colors indicating that this is a squad assignment of course).

  • If you join a squad where the leader has already an assignment in progress, you will also receive it, with the actual progress, so you can jump right in to help.

  • With this method it is also possible to bring along players to a higher level assignment which they don't have access to.

  • However, the assignments of squad members other than the leader will have no connection to the squad - those objectives can only be completed by the member having that assignment, even if it's the very same assignment which the squad(leader) is doing.

  • For this method we do not have to change anything in the mechanic of forming sqads, which means less development time of course.

Method #2: Everyone's own assignment - limited special squads

The idea behind this method is similar to how a lot of other games do it: everyone in a squad can individually take assignments, and if it happens to be the same for everyone, its objectives will count for everyone in the squad, regardless of who triggered it.

  • This method is obviously less rigid, as it's much easier to do ad-hoc missioning groups.

  • However, this freedom also means that assignments can be completed exponentially easier and quicker the more members there are in the squad doing the same assignment. (eg. one player kills an NPC, and the rest of the 50 members standing around will have a completed objective as well.)

  • This is why we have to impose a fixed member limit of 5 players. The undesired effect of the "exploit" would be limited to an acceptable level.

  • We also need to create a separate squad type so that it doesn't interfere with normal squads. This limited-member "assignment squad" is the only type where assignment objective sharing would be possible.

Reward sharing in both methods would work the same way, by sharing money and relation reward equally to all actual squad members at the moment of assignment completion/delivery.

You can of course share your own idea too, if you think you have a better solution.

2 (edited by Celebro 2012-12-05 19:54:50)

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Nice, could you implement both, method 1 for normal squads, method 2  for assignment squad?


I fail to see the real difference with method 1 and what we have now. Only squad leader can complete assignments?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Celebro wrote:

Nice, could you implement both, method 1 for normal squads, method 2  for assignment squad?

Maybe, I'm don't know the technicalities, so let's stick to one for the time being.

Celebro wrote:

I fail to see the real difference with method 1 and what we have now. Only squad leader can complete assignments?

AFAIK (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) currently it doesn't matter if you're leader or not, you just have to push the "Accept (squad)" button when taking an assignment. And this only affects whether the reward will be shared or not, it does not affect objective sharing (there is no such thing at all).

I made an emphasis, maybe you missed that part.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

5 people sounds very small.  Could we get that increased to like 9?

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

DEV Zoom wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Nice, could you implement both, method 1 for normal squads, method 2  for assignment squad?

Maybe, I'm don't know the technicalities, so let's stick to one for the time being.

Celebro wrote:

I fail to see the real difference with method 1 and what we have now. Only squad leader can complete assignments?

AFAIK (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) currently it doesn't matter if you're leader or not, you just have to push the "Accept (squad)" button when taking an assignment. And this only affects whether the reward will be shared or not, it does not affect objective sharing (there is no such thing at all).


Yes true ,but in method 1 only the squad leader can complete assignments right?
Which is kinda of  the same, although much better than what we have , I still prefer method 2.

I would change something in method 2


Instead of a squad limits, could it be possible to add some type of trigger to detect agent is actually helping out on the current assignments to get the rewards? ie NPC trigger we have for loot containers

RIP PERPETUUM

6 (edited by Celebro 2012-12-05 20:27:19)

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Remove syndicate protection and flags whilst in squad pls big_smile


edit :Between squad members only ofc

RIP PERPETUUM

7 (edited by Lupus Caeli 2012-12-05 20:44:55)

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Personally I prefer option 2 - but with the caveat that I'd limit the number of concurrent missions the squad can accept - e.g. just one or 2 concurrent missions .... this will not make it too easy to complete multiple missions... but also give the opportunity for all squad members to contribute to completing the objective ... e.g. - mine x number of y - anyone in squad can mine y to contribute to objective number x.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Lupus: the problem with that is that it would make squad mechanics overly complex, which is always a ticket to the bugs and exploits joyride. We'd have to do numerous checks every time someone joins or leaves the squad: how much missions are there in the squad, does the joining player have a mission, what is the state of each mission, "no you can't join this squad, finish your mission first", etc.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

first both have their advantage.

the first ones is especially nice if you bring in assighnments for squads. that are hard enought that a solo person can not achieve it. the concept would worp pretty fine here.
depends on what youare up to on your new pve content but i think that will suit it pretty well.

for the second option this is indeed a double edged sword. on one hand it is nice for teamwork and especially to level up (standing wise) multible chars. especially if you dont realy fit into the required role very well.
if you want to change the squad system that way then i recommend not two different forms of squads. more i would suggest a option for sub-groups that can be formed on the fly in the existing squad. here you could limit the number of the "assighnment group typ" to your needed 5 agents.

overall i would prefer the first option. but gain with not knowing what will come from you in the future its hard to tell what will be better. i personaly think a way to reward squad assignments and not punish the squad leader for sharing would be a good way to go. why bring your friends if you can solo it easy and you dont have to share...

squad assighnments that require multible ppl not just by difficulty but also as a requirement in the mission itself would also a nice thing. like activating things at multible locations at the same time ... ... ...

its a hard call. maybe celebros idea with both are good and have their use (dependent on assighnment type) and could be implemented.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

The easy way around that is  members have to be in squad when the mission is accepted, no-one can join a squad once a mission is accepted and in progress ...

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Lupus Caeli wrote:

The easy way around that is  members have to be in squad when the mission is accepted, no-one can join a squad once a mission is accepted and in progress ...

+1

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

That sounds pretty much like #1, but anyone could accept that one mission for the squad, not just the leader.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

It would seem to me...the simplest idea is usually the best way of doing things.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Merkle wrote:

It would seem to me...the simplest idea is usually the best way of doing things.

+1

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

I like paying people to mission for me while I sleep.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

  • Make an Assignment NPC spawned only when you're on that assignment, solo or in-team

  • Make a Squad Assignments a completely separated and different assignments

  • Make an Assignment NPC as tough as possible, with hard time limits so one will be unable to complete it solo

  • Increase rewards for Squad Assignments to make them more attractive

  • Add a check that everyone in squad should be in a specific radius before first trigger activated, and mark those and those only as Assignment Partipicants

  • For the Hauling Assignments, make it to be a huge volume needs to be transported to a long enough distance in a short enough time

  • For a Mining Assignments, make it to be a huge enough amount of different resources need to be mined in a short enough time

  • For a Construction Assignments, make it to be a big enough number of construction parts need to be acquired in a short enough time, to be able to produce stuff in time.

Same for other types of assignments. Marked partipicants, limited by time, hard to complete, tasty rewards. Oh, and yes, marked partipicants need to be on some kind of checkpoints to proceed on next step - or they will get much lesser.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

I voted for #2 because I like it better, but still would prefer changes even to that.

I would like to see something separated from squad for assignments using another name like projectteam.
In my opinion every team member should require to accept the assignment in order to participate on the reward and should be within range in order to get update. This range could be either the usual red circle or nexus range or within detection range. Guess best solution would be introduction of an assignment range.
This will be necessary to avoid one guy just standing below terminal and getting all rewards.

The most important change to the actual mechanic should be that the "green circle" on NPC is valid for all team member regardless who is fastest in lock an shoot. And dmg dealed (like in a lot other games) still should not be the "killcounter", as Ewar need to get team reward, as their job is at least as important as the job of the dmg dealer.

18 (edited by Arjha Shanoo 2012-12-06 13:33:34)

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

my basic idea was that every member that currently is in squad gets a popup-choice to participate if anyone of the squad accepted a squad mission. if a new member joins you can forward the mission to him again.
In case of option nr. 1 it could be implemented as "forward mission for squad to squadleader" (... Did thought I knew the squadleader idea from somewhere - now I remembered...)

All in all, I agree with zortarg: to find the most ideal system, it really depends on what you want to implement/change in PvE/mission system.

PS: since you already are discussing for a better squadmission system - please adjust also that you can switch after accepting a mission solo to squadmission

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

It is clear only 24 people play this game.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Votes are anonymous so there can be about a half of those 24 - are DEVs big_smile

21 (edited by Arjha Shanoo 2012-12-06 13:46:00)

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

addition to my post before:
the choice depends on the changes to come

One of the great roles in this question would play the alliance feature:
Right now you may have really big squads which holds everyone of the alliance or at least of the corp - with those option number 2 is way better, to compare the active assignments of each member.

If the alliance feature will come soon - the first option would be better since the squads will only be needed to group certain activities (instead of grouping players with several activities like it's now). The squads would be smaller and the squadleader can easily decide which missions can be taken for the whole squad.

Another point is if there will be changes to the mission system like a min-max amount of participating agents (similiar to beacon farming) where the reward would be calculated depending on actual characters in squad and agents needed for the mission. Again method 1 points here

If any changes like these are planned method 1 would have more benefits, but if we start from the current state I'd have to go for method 2.
(Since I hope for some new variety in missions and a alliance system I choose the first option tongue )

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Industrial Sector wrote:
  • Make a Squad Assignments a completely separated and different assignments

This is important, on both options if you make it available for current missions the economy will completely break due to huge influx of nic

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Indiko wrote:
Industrial Sector wrote:
  • Make a Squad Assignments a completely separated and different assignments

This is important, on both options if you make it available for current missions the economy will completely break due to huge influx of nic

Uh, what exactly would be the reason for this "huge influx of nic"?

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

DEV Zoom wrote:
Indiko wrote:
Industrial Sector wrote:
  • Make a Squad Assignments a completely separated and different assignments

This is important, on both options if you make it available for current missions the economy will completely break due to huge influx of nic

Uh, what exactly would be the reason for this "huge influx of nic"?

For this, one question first: with the change in system that everyone gets the mission will the basic mechanic of sharing NIC and reward in even parts stay or will everyone get the issued amount?

If it's changed there might be a indeed a huge money influx - at least for every multiboxer: 1 mission, 1 runner, 10 agents/multiboxer in squad = 10 times the money/standing - so for a certain missions instead of just a half mil NIC per scan it would be 5 mil. (Though we did ask for more reward on assignments to lessen a grind factor for some time now - if its only halfway ie only for squads it will kill the purpose)

That's one of the reasons I mentionend the idea of all missions requiring a certain agent number - under that you get more, over that you get a penalty.
So there might be really hard assignments that normally would need like 5 agents to be completed in time ( - if you have ten members in a squad reward will be halved, if you solo it you may get 5 times the reward -) and some easy ones (in all levels) that can be soloed from the getgo.
Also this wouldn't change the choice between solo or squadmission.

Re: Poll: Squad assignments

Of course reward sharing (or maybe splitting would be a more appropriate term here) proportional to the number of squad members will stay, this is also mentioned in the first post.