1 (edited by William Bonney 2012-11-07 13:46:47)

Topic: New Map Optimization

I have not been shy about telling folks on  my return to the game, I dislike the "new" map layout.

With this in mind, I do like the "ring" of sorts for the Alpha islands, I do prefer the "factional ore," and I like the commodity changes.  However, the distance two new players have to travel to meet up with their friends, especially for someone not used to the systems, is insane.  If you don't believe or agree with me, grab an arkhe, no LWF, traveling about 52 from ICS alpha to TMA.  Have fun with that.

I do not like complaining however without coming up with a solution, so I've spent quite a bit of time looking at the map, and believe I have come up with a way to reconnect the Alpha-1's, without bringing back the old style "triangle" we used to have:

Attalica Blaha II teleporter (not in use) connect to Weyster Port on Tellesis

Disconnect it's Weyster Port from Zapetsky on Attalica

Connect Zapetsky to Mata Shoto II on Daoden (not in use)

Connect either Chotassia II or Dan Shoto on Daoden to Bellicha II on New Virginia

Connect Maddis Gutaro to Radholme West on Attalica


This method, would still require "off road" traveling to get to the teleporters to then move you to a new Alpha-1 island, but not make you have to travel all of the Alpha-2's as a new player still trying to figure out the teleporters.

I also feel it would cut down a lot for the new player's travel when trying to join a corp that's set up on the opposite side of the world of Nia, without making it as easy as it used to be.  It will keep the seperation, give use to the "not in use" teleporters, and optimize the new player travel experience.

Well, thanks for reading.  /comment

2 (edited by Celebro 2012-11-07 16:10:59)

Re: New Map Optimization

The whole point of the present plan was the separate the factions islands, player feedback was given and most agreed on this . I am all for rearranging or improving the highway system with more routes, but with these changes, we are back to a similar triangle route between alpha 1s.


We are back with the same low population issue and player gaps, very few vets/corps, if any, live on alpha 1s. This is not a map layout issue.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: New Map Optimization

in order to keep the new members?  I think it is.  I think you haven't experienced the new player stuff in a while Celebro.  It sucks.

I agree however, do not bring back the triangle.  Arrangement of hte teleports in this method brings back the alpha1 - alpha 1 connections, but in a manner where you still have to travel on highways and off them to jump to the a different alpha-1.

The old triangle was a 30 second hop from station, to next alpha, to entering the next station.  This method will still require you to travel to teleporter, jump, travel to next teleporter, jump again.  So still keeping the "seperation" without causing a 2 hour walk for an arkhe.

Re: New Map Optimization

Maybe my next race should be in an arkhe, with no light weight frame....

Re: New Map Optimization

i dont say highways alone are necessary to be implemented.

  • working autopilot ON those highways.

  • Syndicate faction sequer and lithus NPCs that "roam" back and forth from terminal to teleporter on set path with different default speeds that provide a "follow" target for player (taxibots)

  • meaningfull PvE on ALL islands. Alpha 1 islands do not provide any reason to stay on them for more then a few days!! recent change to non-agression-npcs on alpha made it even more boring -> IMHO it helped only low-member-pvp corps. It was counterproductive regarding new (combat) player retention. Yet still no word from DEVs how they intend to replace this temporay feature.

  • ...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New Map Optimization

Annihilator wrote:

i dont say highways alone are necessary to be implemented.

  • working autopilot ON those highways.

  • Syndicate faction sequer and lithus NPCs that "roam" back and forth from terminal to teleporter on set path with different default speeds that provide a "follow" target for player (taxibots)

  • meaningfull PvE on ALL islands. Alpha 1 islands do not provide any reason to stay on them for more then a few days!! recent change to non-agression-npcs on alpha made it even more boring -> IMHO it helped only low-member-pvp corps. It was counterproductive regarding new (combat) player retention. Yet still no word from DEVs how they intend to replace this temporay feature.

  • ...


Hehe, I love reading your ideas Annihilator, truly, but most of your suggestions are "new code."  I try my best to either work within existing code, or not so difficult modifications, as much as possible.

Asking for new stuff all the time is great, but takes a hell of a lot longer to implement than changes/modifications of existing system.

7 (edited by Ludlow Bursar 2012-11-07 22:22:16)

Re: New Map Optimization

Annihilator wrote:

Alpha 1 islands do not provide any reason to stay on them for more then a few days!!

The outposts on Alpha 1 could have their facility points increased to 75 to encourage people to stay on alpha 1 in their first few months and bring back a purpose to the outposts beyond staying for a few hours for missions. Before the teleport changes they served as staging posts for access to Beta too - now only 3 out of 9 do this.

Industry on Alpha 1 is pointless at the moment (literally in certain terminals/outposts) and given the extra logistics required (not all high point facilities in one place) some sort of bonus over Alpha 2 terminal could be given.

Its not the whole solution by any means but I'd like it to be part of the solution.

8 (edited by Celebro 2012-11-07 22:44:11)

Re: New Map Optimization

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

Alpha 1 islands do not provide any reason to stay on them for more then a few days!!

The outposts on Alpha 1 could have their facility points increased to 75 to encourage people to stay on alpha 1 in their first few months and bring back a purpose to the outposts beyond staying for a few hours for missions. Before the teleport changes they served as staging posts for access to Beta too - now only 3 out of 9 do this.

Industry on Alpha 1 is pointless at the moment (literally in certain terminals/outposts) and given the extra logistics required (not all high point facilities in one place) some sort of bonus over Alpha 2 terminal could be given.

Its not the whole solution by any means but I'd like it to be part of the solution.


Good point. I have been trying to explain to devs before last indy changes, that highly efficient facilities belong on alpha not beta or gamma. That's the way to attract players there and build market hubs, not far off in pvp lands. These creates trade routes for high value ores moving between gamma-beta-alpha, builds activity on alpha and give new players a chance to move up to more challenging areas. Instead they buff facilities on beta/gamma and nerf extensions.


This is the result; barely no trade, alpha1 empty and no market activity, everyone locked in their alpha2/pvp lands. Corps sign in new players, telling them to journey up on day 1 to far away places.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: New Map Optimization

really, taxibot should not be too much new code... they already have npcs stupidly running in circles on a set path.

for immersion sake they should spawn and disappear at the teleporter and station (artifact or beacon spawned npcs can spawn and despawn), but having them run back and forth would already be a acceptable temporary solution.

there are hundreds of options to make them "indestructilble" or "not profitable to shoot down", aka negative standing with the owner corp, pvp flag, no loot, defense squad spawning that isn't profitable to shoot down either, ... (always keeping griefing in mind)

that for the taxibot code.

industrial advantages for new player on alpha is much harder to balance topic then anything else. Especially with the lame meaningless standing mechanics , that remind more of typical mmo-character leveling then a "reputation" system.

the suggested cross teleport suggestions are more or less a typical kneejerk "bandaid" fix solution that would make previous logical descisions nonsense instead of reviewing them and analysing what went wrong. (Nerf ERP!)

btw, another solution for the joining corp, start a journey issue would be:

Corp Homebase

  • CorpCEO is able to set a corp homebase

  • Setting it up costs a fee - depending on the current member count

  • Discounted Fee for first setup for corps with already high member count,
    switching homebase for a 100+ Agent corp should cost 100M+

  • Cooldown on switching of at least 1 week

  • All corp member will get the homebase automatically added as valid spark teleport destination, without counting it to the extension dependant limit.

  • Starter corps got their respective terminal as spark destination

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New Map Optimization

Annihilator wrote:

i dont say highways alone are necessary to be implemented.

  • meaningfull PvE on ALL islands. Alpha 1 islands do not provide any reason to stay on them for more then a few days!! recent change to non-agression-npcs on alpha made it even more boring -> IMHO it helped only low-member-pvp corps. It was counterproductive regarding new (combat) player retention. Yet still no word from DEVs how they intend to replace this temporay feature.

Is it really, that a player with 1 week is bored on alpha1 and needs to go to alpha2 for  PVE?
I see still 3rd tier NPCs on alpha1 and this will be the upper limit ihmo for most solo PvE player in the first 4 weeks.
Yes Drohnes get boring, but that is their job, easy target for the first hour(s) in game

11 (edited by Indiko 2012-11-08 15:06:03)

Re: New Map Optimization

Isn't alpha 1 great for mining? don't ever have to worry about roaming or red spawns... I see most of the raw mat sell orders in alpha 1 than alpha 2

Re: New Map Optimization

I personally think the Alpha 1 & 2 islands are perfect in what they have available to them now, except maybe variety of assignments.

Not on that though, I just hate it that a new player makes their character, then either joins a corp, or meets another new character in general or help chat, and so they try to meet up with each other to learn the game together, it could take them an hour, sometimes two, in order to do that.  First, because the map isn't the easiest thing to always figure out on how to get to other islands, and secondly, it's just too much travel.

It's an mmo.  It's supposed to enforce grouping together.  New players cannot "band" together well with this current setup unless they all choose the same faction, which isn't right.  You don't force players into playing a certain way.

The look and set-up of the map is great.  The function of it for a new player, is terrible.

Re: New Map Optimization

William Bonney wrote:

It's an mmo.  It's supposed to enforce grouping together.  New players cannot "band" together well with this current setup unless they all choose the same faction, which isn't right.

its funny. why are there three factions, that dont really like each other, to choose, when you band together.

Sorry, but the error in that formula is not the missing travel connection between the factions...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New Map Optimization

I would like to see one starter island in the center of map then leave it to the play where they would like to spread

Re: New Map Optimization

bleu wrote:

I would like to see one starter island in the center of map then leave it to the play where they would like to spread

That is a great idea that's been floating around a bit on these forums, a central "starter" island.  Been working on that suggestion a bit and should have something next week that I think is a well laid plan to submit to these folks.